2012 VP 300 C-A Exhaust manifolds getting too hot - DTC 441 & 442

Donald0039

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I also noticed the catalitic converter is inside and between the riser and exhaust manifold. Was not sure what a boat one would look like. Hope no one steals it like the do from cars. So one would expect the area between exhaust manifold and riser to be pretty hot. But not set off red triangle alarms.
 

Scott Danforth

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just backflush from the raw water pump backwards. simply undo the hose at the raw water pump, shove the end of the garden hose in there and tighten the clamp. no adapter needed.
 

Donald0039

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And the goal would to flush what? Oil cooler?
just backflush from the raw water pump backwards. simply undo the hose at the raw water pump, shove the end of the garden hose in there and tighten the clamp. no adapter needed.
And the goal would be to flush out the oil cooler?
 

Donald0039

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From what I have read, people who clean heat exchanger and similar run in salt water circulate Barnicle Buster through the heat exchanger for awhile. Unsure if a reverse flush with a garden hose would do that much.
 

Lou C

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I think it depends on your boating area, if you boat in a lot of shallow sandy water or muddy water then a back flush might be helpful because if you are running in like 3-4 feet of water you can suck up stuff that will cause problems. IIRC the SX drives actually had a flush out port you could remove on the upper gear housing, it was under the plastic cover you would remove to get to the shift linkage. I don't know if the newer SX-A models do though...
 

Donald0039

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Some history. So the boat was purchased in Sept 2020. It was docked in salt water at an ocean inlet in Rhode Island. Boat was winterized and trailered to Delaware in Oct 2020. In early 2021 changing the gear oil it was discovered a gear was missing a few teeth and the outdrive was sent out to be rebuilt. Waited all summer for a gear set. Never used in 2021. In 2022 I had an issue with the shift cable and shift control. Both replaced. Then a alarm indicating the Ocean-X needed to be reset. Did that with Diacom. Then thought now it was ready. Had it put in the water and idled it for awhile. Red triangle alarm after 5 to 8 min of idling. Diacom said 441/442 exhaust manifold overheat. So boat was never used after I bought it and the few times it was in the water it was tied to the dock at the marina I am at. The rest of the time it's on a rack, not in the water. It worked fine when we went out for a test run in Sept 2020.

So no boating recently just testing. Wife frustrated.
 

Lou C

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Well
what I'd do is get the problem solved and AS SOON AS YOU DO, put it up for sale. Buy a boat with a Mercury, Yamaha or Suzuki outboard, and leave those problems behind you. There is no question despite their complexity that modern outboards are more reliable.
The ONLY reason why, I still have my old OMC Cobra powered boat, is because it is very simple, I know the Cobra quirks and have worked all of them out, and the engine is stone age simple, points ignition and 4bbl carb. All stuff I grew up with in the '70s. Our everyday cars were the same, so I learnd how to work on them when I was a teenager 50 years ago. I have not had mechanical problems keep me from boating because of the simplicity of old boats. And I have absolutely no interest in the new tech that is being forced on us. No thanks, I'll keep running my stone age tech, that works!
If I was getting a nearly new boat, it would have to be outboard powered, if an older boat, carburated is my preference.
I keep a bunch of Cobra spares in my garage because they aren't easy to get parts for but honestly I have had very few problems with the drive system.

Just my opinion, but I'd fix it and move on.
 
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Donald0039

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Well
what I'd do is get the problem solved and AS SOON AS YOU DO, put it up for sale. Buy a boat with a Mercury, Yamaha or Suzuki outboard, and leave those problems behind you. There is no question despite their complexity that modern outboards are more reliable.
The ONLY reason why, I still have my old OMC Cobra powered boat, is because it is very simple, I know the Cobra quirks and have worked all of them out, and the engine is stone age simple, points ignition and 4bbl carb. All stuff I grew up with in the '70s. Our everyday cars were the same, so I learnd how to work on them when I was a teenager 50 years ago. I have not had mechanical problems keep me from boating because of the simplicity of old boats. And I have absolutely no interest in the new tech that is being forced on us. No thanks, I'll keep running my stone age tech, that works!
If I was getting a nearly new boat, it would have to be outboard powered, if an older boat, carburated is my preference.
I keep a bunch of Cobra spares in my garage because they aren't easy to get parts for but honestly I have had very few problems with the drive system.

Just my opinion, but I'd fix it and move on.
L
 

Donald0039

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Well things have changed in the type of boats being sold beyond the type of propulsion. More pontoon and center console boats. Less small cabin boats. I like the layout of the boat. It's got A/C and a bow thruster and the normal small cabin cabin stuff.

I worked on a Johnson 115 outboard decades ago. Pretty easy. I have looked at new outboards with their engine off and while they may be more reliable if you do need to have work done I think doing DIY would be hard.

I am very comfortable working on a GM 5.7L engine be it in a boat or truck or SUV.

I think the issues I am having are due to lack of proper maintenance and to some extent not being able use the boat in 2021.
 

muc

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DTC = Diagnostic trouble code

SPN / FMI = Suspect Parameter Number / Failure Mode Indicator



Diacom displays engine DTC’s (for the –J model and later engines) in a 2 part format based on the J1939 protocol. The first number in the DTC is the SPN (suspect parameter number) and the second number is the FMI (failure mode identifier). DTCs are displayed in ascending numerical order.

441 + 442 are a SPN identifier, so you should have a number after 441 and 442. Do you know what that number is?

Your engine may have 1 or 2 temp sensors on each manifold, they will look the same. Do you know how many you have? They will have 1 or 2 wires.

If you look at Diacom do you see temps for EMWT and ERWT?

441 + 442 are codes for a different engine then either of the 2 serial numbers you posted.

ERWT sensor temperature and voltage information is only available in Diacom’s O2 Feedback Monitor.
 

muc

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I didn't get a chance to finish my post.
EMWT= exhaust manifold water temp
ERWT= exhaust riser water temp
also when on Diacom look for EGT= exhaust gas temp. This is also a sensor you might have depending on what exhaust manifolds you have. The EGT is different from the water temp senders, it's installed in a "blind" hole and monitors the temp of the metal riser.
As of 2018 there have been 4 versions of catalyst exhaust systems.
A lot depends on what you have. Do you have a Temperature Control Device (TCD) or a Pressure Control Device (PCD) and what one do you have?
Maybe post a pic of what you have?

My bet is still on blockage in the TCD or PCD.

Getting called again, will try to post more later.
 

Donald0039

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I am not sure what to make of your comment that the DTC 441 and 442 are for a different engine than mine. I just bought the Diacom new so it was not used before for different engines. The serial number on the sticker on top of the engine matches the serial number that Diacom pulled.
 

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Donald0039

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I am not sure what to make of your comment that the DTC 441 and 442 are for a different engine than mine. I just bought the Diacom new so it was not used before for different engines. The serial number on the sticker on top of the engine matches the serial number that Diacom pulled.
I didn't get a chance to finish my post.
EMWT= exhaust manifold water temp
ERWT= exhaust riser water temp
also when on Diacom look for EGT= exhaust gas temp. This is also a sensor you might have depending on what exhaust manifolds you have. The EGT is different from the water temp senders, it's installed in a "blind" hole and monitors the temp of the metal riser.
As of 2018 there have been 4 versions of catalyst exhaust systems.
A lot depends on what you have. Do you have a Temperature Control Device (TCD) or a Pressure Control Device (PCD) and what one do you have?
Maybe post a pic of what you have?

My bet is still on blockage in the TCD or PCD.

Getting called again, will try to post more later.
I appreciate your posts trying to help me get my Volvo Penta working properly. I added another post with several screenshots from my Diacom. Let me know if more info from the Diacom would be helpful.
 

Donald0039

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The parts list for my engine show a thermostat housing #40005486 and #40005487. One for each exhaust manifold.

Looking through the parts list I do not see a TCD or PCD.
 

muc

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The parts list for my engine show a thermostat housing #40005486 and #40005487. One for each exhaust manifold.

Looking through the parts list I do not see a TCD or PCD.
TCD=temp control device
PCD=pressure control device
Yes I've seen the parts list. But what does your engine have?
Don't have much time right now to look at the pics, did you post a pic of the O2 feedback monitor?
 

Donald0039

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TCD=temp control device
PCD=pressure control device
Yes I've seen the parts list. But what does your engine have?
Don't have much time right now to look at the pics, did you post a pic of the O2 feedback monitor?
Are you thinking that somehow my engine has parts that don't match the parts list for a V8 300 C-A engine.
 

tpenfield

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Following . . .

@muc, @alldodge , and @Lou C (and others) were helpful to me on some engine issues I had earlier this season - 2016 Twin Mercury 6.2 ECT SeaCore. (CAT, DTS, Axius, Joystick)

I almost bought a boat with twin VP engines . . . "V8-350-CE-D" was the model number and there was full closed cooling as the top of the manifolds (where the CAT is located) had a fitting/hose that led back to the Heat Exchanger.

Can we get a few pictures of the engine?

It sounds like this engine has been replaced? Maybe a few pictures would help?

I also agree with the comments about complexity and safety. Certainly a trade-off. I now have more information that I may never want to know about the engines, but the critical stuff, I keep on display (raw water pressure, oil pressure, coolant temperature, RPM, Speed, trim position)

As much as I liked my old school 454's, I've come to appreciate these new fangled engines . . . be they VP or Merc. (Just glad I got the Merc since it is more familiar to me)

Anyway, following along . . . I tend to think that there is a coolant flow restriction somewhere and maybe some recorded data from the Diacom can shed some light. (I also have the latest version of the S/W) . . . But I left my 'Diacom computer' on the boat 🤪
 
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muc

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Are you thinking that somehow my engine has parts that don't match the parts list for a V8 300 C-A engine.
Not sure what to think. Things were changing soo fast during these years, support material couldn’t keep up. This is why techs are trained in how the systems work, so when we get conflicting info we can find were the answer is.

The diagnostic manual for the 2 serial numbers you have posted shows this engine as using 2 EGT sensors to monitor riser/elbow temp. They don’t even list the 441,442 codes.

The wiring diagram is the same for both S/Ns. It shows 4 temp sensors. None of them EGT sensors.

The parts breakdown is kind of iffy for this engine. It shows 2 temp sensors. It also shows that if you wanted a TPS you would have to buy the complete throttle body, sure hope that’s a typo/glitch. Also shows that if you want replacement heat exchanger cap gaskets ---- you have to buy a heat exchanger? That’s crazy because when you service the heat exchanger on this engine, you remove the end caps and clean it out. You only back flush / chemical flush sealed heat exchangers.

I’m not sure what your engine has. I can’t see your engine. The only question you’ve answered is what the FMI numbers are. At this point I’m not even sure if your manifolds are raw water cooled. Have you loosened any hoses to see what comes out? The only way anyone can help you is if you answer questions 100% correct. If you’re not sure, just ask and we can help you.

did you post a pic of the O2 feedback monitor? ERWT sensor temperature and voltage information is only available in Diacom’s O2 Feedback Monitor.
A lot depends on what you have. Do you have a Temperature Control Device (TCD) or a Pressure Control Device (PCD) and what one do you have?
Maybe post a pic of what you have? I would hate to give you advice on how to service a TCD if you have a PCD
Your engine may have 1 or 2 temp sensors on each manifold, they will look the same. Do you know how many you have? They will have 1 or 2 wires.
If you look at Diacom do you see temps for EMWT and ERWT?

Like I said a couple of times before.
The temperature control devices are the most common cause of this problem. They are also the easiest and cheapest to check.
Could the problem be somewhere else? Sure could, might even be electrical (you said earlier something about shooting the manifold temps—did you?) maybe do a clear hose test, maybe a total water output test, maybe inspect the heat exchanger and replace the rubber cap gaskets --- they tend to start to go bad at this age and expand so they block the water flow.
 
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