1998 Johnson 175 Ficht Not Starting

[whalerbob]

On my last outing on the boat cruising along at 25 knots, the engine just shut off. She started a couple of times, but died when I pushed the throttle, and then not to start again. Compression readings showed low compression on the starboard side of the engine 62, 58 & 58, port side were all in the 90s. I pulled the head and it was clear the rubber seal around the pistons were all breached, I cleaned everything up, new seals, sealant around the water jackets and torqued it back on. New readings are 90, 78 & 92 (the 78 indicates a worn ring, but I'm thinking it should still start), but the engine would not start. I get spark at all cylinders, the engine actually sputtered during one of these spark tests, strange? I can smell fuel on the plugs when I pull them out. I went through a bulk of the electrical system tests, I tried to run through the fuel system tests, but some of the tests suggest the engine be running, which mine doesn't. I rebuilt the lift pump, the electric fuel pump is pumping fuel just fine.

I'm hoping someone here would have some suggestions for me...

 

[Crosbyman]

Aside from terrible compression numbers which your EMM can not sense anyway the EMM may be seeing another condition which can only be observed with EV diagnostic software and in some cases blinking codes
on the tach.

here is a doc. on using and the value of EV diagnostics. Version 5.9 works on all G1 ETECs and FICHT EMM,s ..

Evinrude Diagnostics Version 5 A Guide To Getting Started

EVINRUDE DIAGNOSTICS VERSION 5 A GUIDE TO GETTING STARTED September 2021 INTRODUCTION This guide is primarily intended to help Evinrude E-TEC owners. The words...

docs.google.com

next is reading up on the manual you can download from this site search your mdl/year and download for printing Evinrude 1990-2001 down the list...

the "2002-2006 ETEC FICHT" can also be usefull info wise

Repair Manuals G1 Motors & Gearcase - Google Drive

drive.google.com

 

[jimmbo]

It is a 98, and there were many Issues with those Engines. There were a lot of Updates, including complete Powerhead Replacements. The replacement Powerheads were Complete 2001 Powerheads and there were many things different. A few pics of the Powerhead, with all the fancy plastic covers, held on with Rubber Straps removed, would provide some direction

 

[whalerbob]

Aside from terrible compression numbers which your EMM can not sense anyway the EMM may be seeing another condition which can only be observed with EV diagnostic software and in some cases blinking codes
on the tach.

here is a doc. on using and the value of EV diagnostics. Version 5.9 works on all G1 ETECs and FICHT EMM,s ..

Evinrude Diagnostics Version 5 A Guide To Getting Started

EVINRUDE DIAGNOSTICS VERSION 5 A GUIDE TO GETTING STARTED September 2021 INTRODUCTION This guide is primarily intended to help Evinrude E-TEC owners. The words...

docs.google.com

next is reading up on the manual you can download from this site search your mdl/year and download for printing Evinrude 1990-2001 down the list...

the "2002-2006 ETEC FICHT" can also be usefull info wise

Repair Manuals G1 Motors & Gearcase - Google Drive

drive.google.com

Thank you Crosbyman, I'm looking forward to digging into this material. I do have the EV diagnostics software and no codes are shown, but maybe there is something else in the software that can help me diagnose the problem. I don't have any blinking lights on the dash when the key is in the run position. I also have a repair manual, which I suspect is aftermarket, but pretty good, it has a supplemental section for the Ficht, I couldn't find a manual for my 1998 Johnson Ficht in that link you sent, I saw manuals for newer EFIs and early model Evinrudes.

 

[whalerbob]

It is a 98, and there were many Issues with those Engines. There were a lot of Updates, including complete Powerhead Replacements. The replacement Powerheads were Complete 2001 Powerheads and there were many things different. A few pics of the Powerhead, with all the fancy plastic covers, held on with Rubber Straps removed, would provide some direction

Thanks Jimmbo, I have had the engine for 18 years, the original owner had the notorious meltdown, the powerhead and related changes were completed and he immediately sold it to me. I have been the only person to work on it because nobody else would. I'm hoping to get a few more years out of her, attached are some photos
https://i.postimg.cc/Hx6ZJXLJ/20240726-095951.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/2y2DSVsT/20240726-095959.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/hvrSQCdL/20240726-100007.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/HLqWq8my/20240726-100023.jpg

 

[Crosbyman]

Thank you Crosbyman, I'm looking forward to digging into this material. I do have the EV diagnostics software and no codes are shown, but maybe there is something else in the software that can help me diagnose the problem. I don't have any blinking lights on the dash when the key is in the run position. I also have a repair manual, which I suspect is aftermarket, but pretty good, it has a supplemental section for the Ficht, I couldn't find a manual for my 1998 Johnson Ficht in that link you sent, I saw manuals for newer EFIs and early model Evinrudes.

you are correct the 1990-2001 does not go up to your engine size but the fundamentals are there. As to the other link it also contains basic info.

your engine has the infamous PDP known for cold solder joints on the main B+ entry into the panel. not saying it is the problem mind you just check out all you can...fuses and all but all this won't help the compression #s. your engine looks super clean showing above average TLC ... hopefully you can bring it back to life.
the electric fuel pump is pumping fuel just fine.
you may want to check actual fuel pressure to the injectors or confirm they do spit enoug fuel by removing a plug and inserting a strip of paper to see how wet it gets. (ground the plug!)

check system voltages per manual

 

[jimmbo]

That one didn't get the 2001 Powerhead, as it still the Air Cooled ECM on the Top. The replacement Powerheads had the Water Cooled ECM. This one likely had the Cylinder Heads replaced, and several Reprograming.
These Engines suffered from Carbon getting in Ring Grooves and behind the Piston Rings, causing them to stick, usually out, and scoring the Cylinder Walls. Since the Compression Numbers are still quite Low, even after you replaced the O-rings between Block and Head, it likely has Cylinder Damage. TCW3 while the speced Oil for this Engine, wasn't Blended for DI Engines and was part of the Problem.
I doubt you will get this engine to run right, without rebuilding it, and even then it is a Crapshoot.

After the Powerhead on mine was replaced in 2001, I used it for the Season, and put about 45 hours on it. During that Winter, I was thinking, that the Warranty on that motor was expiring, and while the Powerhead had been replaced at N/C, any future problems would be at my expense, and a new Powerhead was about 7 or 8 Grand(Can). I figured I would be better of trading it in with the Upgraded Powerhead, and get a New Boat with warranty and more Power for about about the same difference. I made the Trade, and during the Trade-in Inspection, there was already a, as the Mechanic said "A Neat little Score in one Cylinder". Engine was still under Warranty, so it didn't affect my trade-in, but I was happy to be rid of that ticking bomb.
I haven't seen a FICHT on the water for over 10 yrs.

 

[whalerbob]

That one didn't get the 2001 Powerhead, as it still the Air Cooled ECM on the Top. The replacement Powerheads had the Water Cooled ECM. This one likely had the Cylinder Heads replaced, and several Reprograming.
These Engines suffered from Carbon getting in Ring Grooves and behind the Piston Rings, causing them to stick, usually out, and scoring the Cylinder Walls. Since the Compression Numbers are still quite Low, even after you replaced the O-rings between Block and Head, it likely has Cylinder Damage. TCW3 while the speced Oil for this Engine, wasn't Blended for DI Engines and was part of the Problem.
I doubt you will get this engine to run right, without rebuilding it, and even then it is a Crapshoot.

After the Powerhead on mine was replaced in 2001, I used it for the Season, and put about 45 hours on it. During that Winter, I was thinking, that the Warranty on that motor was expiring, and while the Powerhead had been replaced at N/C, any future problems would be at my expense, and a new Powerhead was about 7 or 8 Grand(Can). I figured I would be better of trading it in with the Upgraded Powerhead, and get a New Boat with warranty and more Power for about about the same difference. I made the Trade, and during the Trade-in Inspection, there was already a, as the Mechanic said "A Neat little Score in one Cylinder". Engine was still under Warranty, so it didn't affect my trade-in, but I was happy to be rid of that ticking bomb.
I haven't seen a FICHT on the water for over 10 yrs.

You are absolutely correct, I found the installation instructions for the FFI Enhancement Package, all of the records came with the boat. It appears after this was done, the motor had a major overheat and cooked the fuel rails which were all replaced, all prior to me owning it.

https://i.postimg.cc/vHsXvG18/20240726-130553.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/VL01XBCP/20240726-130854.jpg

 

[jimmbo]

Major Overheat... Well, that could account for the Less than Good Compression Numbers

 

[whalerbob]

Major Overheat... Well, that could account for the Less than Good Compression Numbers

That was 20 years ago...

 

[havoc_squad]

Given the reputation of FICHT engines, I'd rather trade it for a trolling motor with a boat full of deep cycle batteries and an oar than one of those engines.

There's a reason they are notoriously hated. A bad design that is prone to premature failure.

 

[cyclops222]

You do not want to be Fichted.

 

[whalerbob]

I did the voltage supply test as per the attached instructions, check voltage to the J terminal in the power distribution panel while the engine is cranking. The good book says I should be getting 9.5 volts or higher, mine tops out at 9 volts. When it is not cranking I get 12.5 volts. I have a brand new battery, same model that was in there, the cables, battery switch and ignition switch are only 6-7 years old. I moved on to the starting system components, the Total Output test (spark noted at each plug but engine will not start) directed me to Power Coil output test, I make it to #7 in this test and I don't get any voltage and I should be getting 50 volts or better. I moved on to the Power Coil Resistance test and I'm not showing any resistance between orange and orange/black. It's suggesting I replace the stator assembly. My question on this resistance test is should the key be on? Cranking? Or in the off position? I'm assuming off the position.

https://i.postimg.cc/J0WY7gBq/20240727-123015.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/0Nz976X4/power-coil-output-and-resistance-tests.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/t4SX1dkP/total-output-test.jpg

 

[cyclops222]

The written instructions are WRONG. You can never get more than battery voltage in a ...NORMAL... battery system with the key in the off position.
Your new battery is LOW. Connect a RELIABLE battery charge to it for several hours. It needs to be charged up to at least 13.5 volts to...FULLY... ACTIVATE all of the battery Lead inside of it. Right now your battery is completely run down. It is useless to start the engine reliably.

 

[Faztbullet]

Throw that Selco book away as its wrong. Those tests are for a carb motor!!! Also your stator is a 3 phase stator and does not have a org/org-blk wire. So are you sure its a FICHT? The only org and blk wire coming from flywheel cover is the CPS

 

[whalerbob]

Thank you for chiming in faztbullet & Cyclops, my book is a Clymer (not that its any better), and it has a supplemental section for the Ficht, and yes I went down the wrong path. Back in the Ficht supplemental section I started the process of elimination, it appears that my coil pack round straps were not grounding properly, I cleaned them up and and the engine started right up. I took her for a sea trial, she runs great at idle, but when I throttled her up she ran good for a while and then bogged down and died. After 2-3 minutes of sitting she will start up again, it did the same thing a few times then I idled back to dock.

 

[Crosbyman]

could be fuel starvation overheating component vst air lock keeping fuel from entering the VST etc...

post your recent EV diagnostic report and... engine model#

if ECM-EMM decisions are not causing the shut down due to a critical sensor detected anomaly then you need to check all fuel flow related concerns

from tank pick-up and venting up to injector fuel pressure. Then there is injector service to consider if never done.

Check vst float operation for proper venting. A stuck float can cause vapor build up and keep enough fuel from coming in the VST from the lift pump

if all is ok then look at possible component overheat. Recheck PDP fuses but oddly you indicated that you can idle back to the dock ??

try some coolant spray on individual components you may suspect to see if any reaction. Dollarstore keybaord spray cans held upside down will cool things pretty fast!!

but all the above won't fix bad compression #s

 

[whalerbob]

Thanks Crosbyman, I have a new VST that I will install, in addition to a new coil pack that has a crack in it. I would think if the ECM was causing the shutdown it would leave a code behind, but maybe not. Sorry for the poor quality photo of the EV diagnostic monitoring screen, it was a sunny day and hard to eliminate the reflection.

https://i.postimg.cc/k51FpmV6/20240728-160002.jpg

 

[Crosbyman]

EMM does not see everything it only senses things like current flow to some parts, sensor outputs etc... it does not see cracked coils dirty injectors bad fuel flows poor injector pressure etc...

having no codes just eliminates a lot of things to check out.
before swapping expensive parts why not do pressure tests on injectors rail, check the float in your current VST ( it is just a fuel cooling can with a toilet bowl like valve on top.

 

[cyclops222]

Remove the fuel tank filler cap and run the boat. See if that has any effect.