1998 Johnson 175 Ficht Not Starting

Crosbyman

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and fuel pick-up filters etc...including deteriorated fuel hoses

..a high pressure test and lift pump pressuretest will determine if fuel makes it to the VST properly then the injectors

then it becomes a . question of proper injector operation if not crudded up , ignition control by the EMM.
 
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whalerbob

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I replaced the cracked coil pack and the engine temp sensor. I tested the VST to ensure it wasn't flooding, it's not, so I didn't change it out. The next step was to test the fuel pressure under operating conditions, but the while the engine would crank, it wouldn't start, not even a cough. I have to get her out of the water and back in the driveway, to be continued...
 

Crosbyman

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I did not read the whole book but I believe that at Key on the start assist circuit (SAC) should immediately get the HPP going giving you some semblance of available PSI,s regardless if the engine strarts or not.

that said and you seemed to have sparks ...... fuel injection does not seem to reach the cylinders . this can be caused by :

  • no inj. fuel pressure build up ( defective /dead HPP)
  • fuel flow issues from tank ... to HPP.... to dist. rail or return rail to VST
  • absence of injector trigger pulses from EMM (bad CPS)
  • plugged up injectors (test them with a paper strip)
 

whalerbob

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I finally got the boat out of the water, fortunately the day before the remnants of Hurricane Debbie made her way up the north and created a big tidal surge in the Chesapeake Bay, and our docks were under water.

I checked the fuel pressure first and I am getting 25 psi on the high pressure port, no problem with that reading. The low pressure port was also within the guidelines.

I conducted another spark test, in doing this the engine sputtered a few times and sounded like she might start, it didn't though, and that sputtering stopped. My spark tester is the kind that connects between the spark plug and the spark plug wire, it has a clear tube in the middle. I get spark, but it's not a bright white spark, more orange. I sprayed a little starter fluid in all the cylinders, I got nothing when I cranked the engine. I removed a spark plug but kept it in the boot and grounded the end of the plug on the block, we cranked the engine and we get nothing, I tried another plug and still no spark. So as it appears I have spark with the tester, but I don't believe I am getting enough spark.

I attempted to test the voltage coming to the coil packs, the instruction said leave the primary coil wire connected, insert a test connecter (sewing pin for me) into the boot of the primary coil wire at the coil, with the meter, red to the test connecter, and black to engine block ground. When I crank the engine, I should get a minimum of 180 volts, my meter reading says -8.5 volts. I tried it on several primary coil connecters and I get the same result. I am either conducting this test wrong, or it's pointing to the problem. I think it's also important to note that it is/was an intermittent problem. Any thoughts?
 

racerone

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Those glowing testers should be tossed in the garbage.-----Does spark jump a gap of 3/8" on a test device ?
 

whalerbob

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In conducting voltage supply tests, I placed the positive meter lead on the fuse for the "Ignition System", with the key on the voltage should be 1 volt less than the reading at the battery, and it is. While cranking, this voltage should be increase, but it doesn't, this directed me to test the charging system. I got to the "Suppressor Diode Test" I have attached the instructions for this test, it said disconnect the red & purple/yellow wire connecter. It talks about a 3rd wire "black" that connects to the mounting screw, mine doesn't have a black wire and appears to ground by the body of the suppressor. I'm assuming that the instructions are telling me to to touch the meter lead to one of the pins on the Suppressor itself, not the wire connector? I don't get any readings from the meter when doing this test? Am I doing this one right?
 

whalerbob

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In conducting voltage supply tests, I placed the positive meter lead on the fuse for the "Ignition System", with the key on the voltage should be 1 volt less than the reading at the battery, and it is. While cranking, this voltage should be increase, but it doesn't, this directed me to test the charging system. I got to the "Suppressor Diode Test" I have attached the instructions for this test, it said disconnect the red & purple/yellow wire connecter. It talks about a 3rd wire "black" that connects to the mounting screw, mine doesn't have a black wire and appears to ground by the body of the suppressor. I'm assuming that the instructions are telling me to to touch the meter lead to one of the pins on the Suppressor itself, not the wire connector? I don't get any readings from the meter when doing this test? Am I doing this one right?

 

whalerbob

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Maybe all of that was too much information, I just need to understand how to test the suppressor diode
 

whalerbob

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8 or 10 years ago, I bought a wiring harness for this motor off someone who had a boat on the great lakes, I remembered he had thrown in some extra parts, I went through the box and found a Suppressor Diode :)
It didn't show any different results than the one on the boat, but I swapped it out anyway. I also, tested the stator, and it checks out fine. I am now at a loss... I'm hoping it's not my ECU
 

Crosbyman

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a diode by itself is just a one way check valve

resistance measured one way is very low read the other direction it is very high... do utbe searches on testing diodes ... simple devices
 

Crosbyman

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injectors and coils on FICHT and ETECs are fired by ground pulses on individual control wires (see diagram) that carry the common buss operating voltage looped back to the ECU /EMM via the internal coils of each component to trigger.

this is how fault codes on open injectors and coils are detected....

"no juice on the control wires" ECU concludes that the componet is OPEN hence OPEN COIL OPEN INJ. codes. in EV DIAGNOSTIC

the ground pulses to activate coils and inj can be visually monitored with what is called NOID lamps used on car ignitions when a mecanic needs to know if coils or inj. are being fired by modern car computers ... same for FICHT "ECU" and ETEC "EMM"

In one case last year it was determinded and confirmed VISUALLY that the EMM was skipping the beat sometimes confirming it was in fact defective and not the INJ.

I had actually suggested to clip on a small neon bulb on the suspect control wires with the other side to ground and with common buss voltage on INJ and COILs the lamp should turn on all the time with engine running with steady blink OFF when the ECU applies a ground on the control wires
(the bulb blink OFF because it is deprived of the voltage source applied to the coils and/ inj. when the wire is trigged to ground)

without an oscilloscope to monitor the control wires it is about the only way to SEE what goes on.
 

whalerbob

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injectors and coils on FICHT and ETECs are fired by ground pulses on individual control wires (see diagram) that carry the common buss operating voltage looped back to the ECU /EMM via the internal coils of each component to trigger.

this is how fault codes on open injectors and coils are detected....

"no juice on the control wires" ECU concludes that the componet is OPEN hence OPEN COIL OPEN INJ. codes. in EV DIAGNOSTIC

the ground pulses to activate coils and inj can be visually monitored with what is called NOID lamps used on car ignitions when a mecanic needs to know if coils or inj. are being fired by modern car computers ... same for FICHT "ECU" and ETEC "EMM"

In one case last year it was determinded and confirmed VISUALLY that the EMM was skipping the beat sometimes confirming it was in fact defective and not the INJ.

I had actually suggested to clip on a small neon bulb on the suspect control wires with the other side to ground and with common buss voltage on INJ and COILs the lamp should turn on all the time with engine running with steady blink OFF when the ECU applies a ground on the control wires
(the bulb blink OFF because it is deprived of the voltage source applied to the coils and/ inj. when the wire is trigged to ground)

without an oscilloscope to monitor the control wires it is about the only way to SEE what goes on.
Thanks Crosbyman, would this be a good choice for a Noid Lamp?
 

Crosbyman

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read up on this trouble case from the ETEC world.....


the fellow who purchased NOID lamps referred to cheap ones from AMAZON...
never used them myslef but these should work


see comment on actual finding... and RICMCD53 comment
01/03/22 ·
I attached probes to the terminals of one of the noid lights from my Amazon kit. I back probed the green injector #3 wire at the J1B plug and grounded the other probe.

I can see the noid light flicker OFF for just an instant when the injector clicks during the static injector test.

Sure enough, when the injector skips a click, the noid light stays ON.

I think this proves that the #3 injector driver in my old EMM is bad.
 
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whalerbob

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Thanks, I ordered the noid lights. I can see that there are some pre-owned ECUs out there, would that be plug and play?
 

Crosbyman

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you can not just swap ECU.... maybe a short idling test but... all inj profiles must be loaded in the ECU if you find a matching ECU .

you have EV Diagnostics to do so .

here is what is involved in this ETEC link and watch the video near the end.
other videos on utube


problem here is that your compression values are considered to low and unless this is adressed a new ECU will not bring those numbers up.

It is odd you had no troublecodes...

In theory since you had no OPEN fault codes on inj or coils the ECU must be "seeing" the operating voltages on the control wires yet it be failing to ground them to force fuel inj and sparks.

you indicated you hads parks on all cyl. so that works . you can test for fuel injection with a simple strip of paper inserted in a plug hole and click the inj. with EV diag.

a dry strip indicates no fuel is being spit in the cyl. BTW did you ever actually measure fuel pressure out of the HPP. ???
 
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Crosbyman

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Thanks, I ordered the noid lights. I can see that there are some pre-owned ECUs out there, would that be plug and play?

keep those safe and sound in case you feel you need to return them to Amazon .

SEE my post on ECU swaps and paper strip testing
 

Crosbyman

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see link on injector replacement from the ETEC folks GEB 's article tells it all
 

whalerbob

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I apologize, this thread is becoming long, somewhere a few posts back I backtracked on getting spark, I get a dim light on my glow tester, but no spark on a conventional old tester or even grounding the plug against the block. I don't have spark.
 
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