1995 Force 50 Turns over, doesn’t start

[Adelamerced18]

Hello all,
This motor is pretty new to me. My prior outboard experience was a 25hp Mariner I had on a 13’ Whaler. Only did mechanical work never electronic….Here is my dilemma. I purchased a newer boat with a 1995 Force 50 w/tilt trim….it started right up when I went to see the boat. Hadn’t tried to start it for 2.5 months since the day I purchased it. Now I can’t get it to start. My old outboard had no neutral start switch….the old owner gave me procedures of starting this motor. He said to push throttle forward. High idle in Neutral….but not sure what that means. He said to push the throttle forward when I push in the key(prime) and start. I then pull the throttle back after it starts….but it won’t do anything if I push the throttle forward at all past neutral. I also checked spark with a spark plug tester. Seems weak on both cylinders but I think it should be enough. I also tried shooting gas into the carb directly…..I guess my first question is how to advance the throttle for a cold start if it won’t do anything outside of neutral. Thank you.

 

[Redbarron%%]

Can you feel the compression on the cylinders? How about checking?
See if the plugs are wet with fuel/oil.
Try an induction timing light to see if there is enough current to fire the lamp and also if the timing is correct.
If the timing light is firing and the timing marks are off the flywheel key could be sheared.

 

[Adelamerced18]

I tried the spark plug tester where you can adjust the gap. Couldn’t jump very far. Maybe 1/4 in. I also took the flywheel off last night so I can check the magnets and the magnets were still glued in position as well as the wires looked ok.

 

[Nordin]

Do you activate the cold start function when trying to start?
The cold start only give you some more throttle with out activate the gear shift.
Depending on typ of remote control there are different procedure for cold start.
Some controls you pull the throttle lever out and push it forward.
Some controls has a push bottom in the lever center that you push in and then push the lever forward and the old Chrysler controls has a knob that you pull out.

Your 50 Hp 1995 suppose to have a primer instead of a regular choke butterfly for cold start.
The primer is a electrical solenoid that squirt some fuel in to the crank case each time you push the keyswitch in.

 

[roscoe]

There is no conventional choke on that motor.
There is a fuel enrichment valve, that releases fuel directly into the intake manifold.

Open fuel tank vent

Check the kill switch, place in "run" position

Squeeze fuel primer bulb till firm.

Advance the throttle 3/4 way or more, without putting it in gear. -- This is done by either pushing a button in the center of the controls, or pulling the shift handle toward the driver, or raising the fast idle lever, all depending on what control unit you have.

Turn the key to the on/run position.

Activate the choke (fuel enrichment valve) by pushing in on the key. The valve is only open while the key is being pushed in.

Turn the key to start while continuing to hold the key in.

Release the key and choke when it starts.

3-5 seconds of "choke", is usually enough.

Be ready to pull the throttle back toward the idle/neutral position, when the engine starts and the revs increase.

Continue to pull the throttle back as the engine warms up.

You should not have to use the choke much, if at all, once the engine has warmed up.

Engine should start within 10 seconds of turning the key.

 

[racerone]

Battery must be fully charged and load tested.-----Most motors today will not start with an old battery that turns the motor over but not fast enuff to produce a hot spark.

 

[Adelamerced18]

First of all, I wanted to thank you all for your replies….. I did try to start the motor with a brand new tested Red Top Optima. I also tried to start the motor with my car battery attached to the motor battery as well. I talked to the original owner and he said to put the throttle forward 1/2 way to WOT but when I do that it won’t do anything since it’s out of neutral. I do have a prime which I do by pushing the key in several times and I can hear the primer clicking. Only thing I haven’t done is try to start it with the throttle advanced. I’m not sure how to do that….I’ve also tried it in Neutral with the lever next to the throttle in the up and down positions. Here is a picture of my controls.View attachment 354676

 

[Adelamerced18]

Also here is the spark on the two cylinders. They will jump about 1/8 of an inch but not 1/4.

 

[racerone]

The lever on top of the control box ----Between the big handle and boat.-----That is the fast idle / throttle only lever.----And it is clearly identified as such.------If spark will only jump 1/8" then really you have a " no spark condition " and motor will be difficult to start.

 

[Adelamerced18]

The lever on top of the control box ----Between the big handle and boat.-----That is the fast idle / throttle only lever.----And it is clearly identified as such.------If spark will only jump 1/8" then really you have a " no spark condition " and motor will be difficult to start

 

[Adelamerced18]

Thank you very much for that information. That is what I figured and have been trying but he kept telling me to push throttle forward and only pull that up after it starts to give it the faster idle. I’ve tried both ways…again thank you. I’m going to test the stator tomorrow at work. I’ve been told by a local mechanic over the phone that the magnets and stator would cause weak spark. The magnets on the flywheel look great and have plenty of pull.

 

[racerone]

Nope---- that lever is raised for throttle only during cranking and cold starting.-----And ----" he "----was wrong with his instruction or your interpretation was wrong.-----So operate the primer bulb till firm.-----Raise fast idle lever all the way.-----Push key in and hold it in while cranking.

 

[Adelamerced18]

Great, so I did try lifting that lever. I guess I tried the way I was supposed to. Next is testing the electronic components. I just wasn’t sure about his instructions, hence the thread was started. Again thank you all for the replies and I’ll update when the Stator is tested.

 

[Adelamerced18]

Hello,
So I took the readings off of the stator. The Youtube vid I found off of the page cleancarburetor said between the red lead together and the blue leads together should be 80-100ohms….the yellow leads together should read around 1.4….these are my readings with Red wires first, blue wires second and yellow third. Looks like the blue wires are really high 1091…red and yellow seem to be in range 94.5 and 1.0 respectively.

 

[jerryjerry05]

IF???? you have spark, however small it's probably enough.
It sounds like the fuel system might be the problem.
You have a primer that shoots a small amount of gas into the carb each time the switch is activated, holding the key in only gives 1 little shot of fuel.
To test: unhook the hose from the primer to the carb. Then hit the primer and see if fuel comes out??
Test the fuel in the tank for water?
Where you located?

 

[Adelamerced18]

IF???? you have spark, however small it's probably enough.
It sounds like the fuel system might be the problem.
You have a primer that shoots a small amount of gas into the carb each time the switch is activated, holding the key in only gives 1 little shot of fuel.
To test: unhook the hose from the primer to the carb. Then hit the primer and see if fuel comes out??
Test the fuel in the tank for water?
Where you located?

Hello, I am located in Southern California. The fuel is new. I just put it in a month or so ago. Also I did try starting it with shooting a little starting fluid into the carb. I can hear the primer clicking when I push the key in but today I will take off the hose and see if it shoots. The fuel line was pressurized down stream of the fuel filter when I changed it. I also shot starting fluid into the spark plug hole….I was told it should at least fire for a second if I had enough spark……but I will check the primer today. Thank you for your help.

 

[racerone]

If you put fuel into the plug hole and it did not " bark like a dog " then you have no spark or the flywheel key is sheared.----Should be an easy fix.-----But that is only my opinion.

 

[Adelamerced18]

If you put fuel into the plug hole and it did not " bark like a dog " then you have no spark or the flywheel key is sheared.----Should be an easy fix.-----But that is only my opinion.

Thank you, the key was there but it did look like it was short. I’ll have to double check that…. I didn’t see it at the top of the flywheel but it did line up with the slot.

 

[Redbarron%%]

Borrow an induction timing light and pull the plugs so that it will spin faster. Check the timing. It should be around 9 * at idle and 28 30* at full throttle. Look for fuel/oil coming out of the plug holes. Ground the spark plug leads to protect the coils from too high voltage.
If it will not fire the induction timing light you have found the issue. If the timing is way off then the key has sheared. If no fuel is blown out the plugs then the carbs/fuel pump is bad.

 

[racerone]

On many motors you can not find a sheared key with a timing light !