1991 V135 - Project Engine

[sschefer]

Re: 1991 V135 - Project Engine

Quick update: I'm waiting for a response back from US1 about top pinning the pistons. Even though they are being balanced right now, I think I'm going to send them off and have them top pinned and re-balanced. I've also asked about the crank and flywheel and the lack of balancing reliefs or plugs. It's just bothering me.

 

[daveswaves]

Re: 1991 V135 - Project Engine

Quick update: I'm waiting for a response back from US1 about top pinning the pistons. Even though they are being balanced right now, I think I'm going to send them off and have them top pinned and re-balanced. I've also asked about the crank and flywheel and the lack of balancing reliefs or plugs. It's just bothering me.

Steve, I just went out to my shop and looked at 3 mercury cranks and 3 mercury flywheels. All three are balanced externally, in other words, the flywheel weight distribution has been modified to balance the assembly. I suspect that yours has been balanced via the flywheel. Perhaps weight was added in a particular area, you would not be able to see that. All three that I have apart had weight removed, however, thats not the only way its done.

 

[Faztbullet]

Re: 1991 V135 - Project Engine

V-6 cranks are to be balanced with the flywheel installed if that helps. The only pistons I have used top pinned are 3.0 liter Merc & OMC pistons(racing). Myself I would save my money and apply it toward a good prop as you will have a good smooth idling engine and you only going to gain maybe 5hp on top end and some low and midrange torque as compression slot is cut different on 135 than 150 in this year and bore size (3-1/8). The power heads are different porting and part numbers are 812819A89 for 150 and 813922A89 for 135. I have seen people try to turn these into a 150 by swapping carbs and all it does is use more fuel and little if any top end increase, and by the way when you get through with that one I have its twin in shop that need gone thru!!!! Also this is my $.02!!!

 

[sschefer]

Re: 1991 V135 - Project Engine

Thanks guys, we did find the info on balancing yesterday afternoon. Apparently someone put a brand new flywheel on this thing and it was never balanced. The crank and flywheel go to back to the shop today for balancing. If I was looking for true root cause of the engine going south I might think this would have made it run pretty bad. However, I have the feeling this was done after the initial problem occured. Since there were other perfomance mods done, I suspect the original owner had a custom flywheel that they kept and replaced it with this one. I don't know, sure seems like this would have been one rough running engine even at idle.

 

[Unbalanced]

Re: 1991 V135 - Project Engine

Interesting stuff. I would have never guessed the crank was balanced with the flywheel. Does this mean someone should have their crank/flywheel balanced if there should ever be a problem with the flywheel like cracked or loose magnets that would warant replacement???

 

[sschefer]

Re: 1991 V135 - Project Engine

Interesting stuff. I would have never guessed the crank was balanced with the flywheel. Does this mean someone should have their crank/flywheel balanced if there should ever be a problem with the flywheel like cracked or loose magnets that would warant replacement???

Humm, good question. From a engine life perspective I think the answer has to be yes. But when you consider all the folks that do it without rebalancing the need becomes questionable. If I was running a shop I would think I would be forced to advise the customer that this action could shorten the life of the engine unless other appropriate costly maintenance actions were taken. The operative wording would be "could".

 

[sschefer]

Re: 1991 V135 - Project Engine

V-6 cranks are to be balanced with the flywheel installed if that helps. The only pistons I have used top pinned are 3.0 liter Merc & OMC pistons(racing). Myself I would save my money and apply it toward a good prop as you will have a good smooth idling engine and you only going to gain maybe 5hp on top end and some low and midrange torque as compression slot is cut different on 135 than 150 in this year and bore size (3-1/8). The power heads are different porting and part numbers are 812819A89 for 150 and 813922A89 for 135. I have seen people try to turn these into a 150 by swapping carbs and all it does is use more fuel and little if any top end increase, and by the way when you get through with that one I have its twin in shop that need gone thru!!!! Also this is my $.02!!!

Absolutely correct. While you can get 150 hp out of a 135 it's not a simple carb swap to make it happen and hardly worth the money either. This particlular engine of mine is a pretty darn good example of what happens when you try to bolt on hp.

These 135's are good little engines and will last a long time but they were never designed with high performance in mind. They're a little sluggish out of the hole and have only an average powerband which, because of the porting is difficult to improve without throwing a lot of money at it. Hardly worth the cost if you ask me.

Switching up to a 2.5 is where you need to go if you want instant gratification or a 3.0 if you have the bucks to get there.

Re top pinnng, when I get the pistons back I'll check them in the holes to see where the pins are in relation to the ports. If they are not passing by an open port then you're right, they should be fine and thanks for the heads up. There is a chance that these GLM's may be different so I will check them.

 

[Jeff_G]

Re: 1991 V135 - Project Engine

Replacement flywheels are balanced from the factory.
It is not necessary to re-balance the whole assembly if you replace the flywheel.
If you have a flywheel and replace the magnets as long as you put them in the right place you won't have a problem. Flywheels are the least of one's worry in building an engine.

 

[sschefer]

Re: 1991 V135 - Project Engine

Oh, O.K.

 

[Zrt1200]

Re: 1991 V135 - Project Engine

Replacement flywheels are balanced from the factory.
It is not necessary to re-balance the whole assembly if you replace the flywheel.
If you have a flywheel and replace the magnets as long as you put them in the right place you won't have a problem. Flywheels are the least of one's worry in building an engine.

Jeff I agree and disagree with your opinion. A flywheel is still part of the rotating mass when balancing. Steve stated his flywheel had no balancing holes drilled in or no weight added. Al

 

[sschefer]

Re: 1991 V135 - Project Engine

9/18/09

Got a call from the shop this afternoon, the crank and flywheel are balanced the pistons and rods will be done next week.

Ordered new mains and rod bearings. The lower was still in perfect condition so it can stay. I also ordered new rod bolts and seals. That adds another 500.00 + to the total..I'll add it up later.

I recived all the parts to restore the mid section today and also got the new Chris Carson reeds. I put the reed blocks back together and torqued the screws to 25 in lbs like the book says. All are laying perfectly flat and I can't even get a .0015 feeler gauge under them. I also cleaned the nasty mid section out and the two plates. I use mineral spirits to knock down the grease then spray them with Easy Off oven cleaner and let them sit for a couple of hours. After that I scrub them with dish soap and water and they clean up very nice. I found some blistered paint on the housing so I think I'll have all the lower end parts painted. I'm toying with the idea of powder coating them.
I'll take some pic's tomorrow.

 

[Jeff_G]

Re: 1991 V135 - Project Engine

Jeff I agree and disagree with your opinion. A flywheel is still part of the rotating mass when balancing. Steve stated his flywheel had no balancing holes drilled in or no weight added. Al

Not sure what part you disagree with?
I would be willing to bet the flywheel was balanced. Can't say I ever saw a V-6 flywheel not balanced.
My point was if a replacement flywheel is used you don't have to totally disassemble the engine and have it balanced.
If the magnets come off and you replace them properly you don't have to re-balance the flywheel. And you don't have to re-balance the flywheel and crank in a normal rebuild.
If Steve wants to do it and it makes him happy fine. Will make the engine better. But the advantages vs the cost and time are not necessary. Mercury has never recommended that procedure. It simply isn't cost effective or necessary.

 

[sschefer]

Re: 1991 V135 - Project Engine

Not sure what part you disagree with?
I would be willing to bet the flywheel was balanced. Can't say I ever saw a V-6 flywheel not balanced.
My point was if a replacement flywheel is used you don't have to totally disassemble the engine and have it balanced.
If the magnets come off and you replace them properly you don't have to re-balance the flywheel. And you don't have to re-balance the flywheel and crank in a normal rebuild.
If Steve wants to do it and it makes him happy fine. Will make the engine better. But the advantages vs the cost and time are not necessary. Mercury has never recommended that procedure. It simply isn't cost effective or necessary.

Jeff, you are correct in that it isn't cost effective and the stock crank and flywheel combos will work fine for those that realize that all production engines are based on a very wide range of tolerances. Tolerances in a factory production engine are designed with a "one size fits all" attitude.

Keep it in perspective. This enigne is torn down. This is not a "just make it run scenario". Since I have the upper hand now, I am choosing to correct any and all major deficiencies that I can find. I am not tolerating the .006 runout of the crank allowed by the factory nor the .006 out of round and taper of the cylinders either.

Just remember, this engine failed. Did it fail for one reason alone? That is something that we cannot be sure of. We have to consider that it may have been a combination of factors that came together when the final ingredient was added.

How you repair engines and how I build them are with two different schools of thought.

Just for your info, the crank and flywheel came in pretty close as they were. I'd only be speculating if I were to suggest why the flywheel showed no signs of prior balancing.

I asked the shop to go the extra mile in dialing it in by taking it to the second order. This is something that is normally done to performance engines but not all that common in a production engine. It definitely extends the life of the engine by eliminating vibration that most think is normal. The cost was 200.00 which is nominal if it gives you just 100 more hours of life.

So that's done now, we need to move on.

 

[sschefer]

Re: 1991 V135 - Project Engine

9/19/09 - With the parts for the mid section in and nothing much to do on the block I went to work on the mid section. Prior to this I had torn it apart and found the Exhaust had been modified and holes drilled in the lower section.
To repair the holes and add back some of the lost strength I taped the bottom (exterior) side of the holes and put a pin hole in over the top of each of the six 1/2" holes on each side. I then mixed up a 4oz of Loctite super epoxy and poured it in from the top. Mind you, this was done after a thorough cleaning of the inside with Easy Off Professional oven cleaner and a final wash with a citrus based cleaner.

Once the epoxy was set I removed the tape and the holes were flush with the plate. Then I took the whole thing over to my buddies shop and we stripped it and shot it with two part epoxy to match to to Merc's "Phantom Black". After it dried I took it home, put it back together with all new gaskets and the new, stock ehxhaust tube, and hung it on the engine mount. FYI, the engine transom mount cleaned up without needing paint so I just left it as it was. The hydraulics in the tilt and trim checked out good also and are not that hard to repair later so I just cleaned them up and changed the fluid.

After I get the yard work done on Sunday, I'll head into the lower unit inspection, cleaning and patching up. It will get all new upper seals and the water pump will get a full kit. There are no leaks in the lower unit that can be seen but I will vacuum test it just to be sure. Pressure testing can be done with pressure but I prefer vacuum because it's easier to do without making up a special fitting.

 

[imported_Jimbo]

Re: 1991 V135 - Project Engine

Nice to hear the work is coming along! A question regarding the painting process, what did you use to strip the paint? Do you use some etching primer before painting it? The reason I ask is that I will repaint my lower this winter. Reason beeing its donated from an Evinrude and mounted on my Johnson...

BR Jimbo

 

[sschefer]

Re: 1991 V135 - Project Engine

I use Jasco epoxy remover. Comes in the gold and red can. For etching, I use Interlux Vinyl Wash which is a two part primer etch/wash for epoxy. I then prime with Interulx Epoxy primer. I'm not sure what brand the paint was on this. It was 2 part epoxy that my buddy had left over from a trailer he did a while back. In fact everything I used was left over from something or another. That's mainly why I used it.

For engine parts I use acrylic lacquer. I was told by an old time custom engine builder that if you don't want bubbles and blisters later on, use lacquer. It will eat right through any grease or oil you missed and it will stand the heat without discoloring horribly. Fact or fiction? I don't know. It seems to work fine for me and I just happened to have a quart of it and some midnight blue tint to make it Mercury Phantom Black.

If you really want the paint to look great for a long time, go with powder coating the metal parts. Now that it's emerged from the Voodo stage it's relatively inexpensive. It ought to be, you get to reuse all the overspray

 

[sschefer]

Re: 1991 V135 - Project Engine

9/20/09 - Today was the day to work on the lower unit. The first thing I noticed was how hard it was to turn the drive shaft. When I did turn it, there was the sound of rubber squeaking sort of like listening to squeeqie (sp) on a window. Hard to describe.

I pulled the cover off the pump and the key fell out and the impeller stayed in the cap. It wasn't stuck to the cap it was just in their really tight. I'd seen them do this before so I didn't think much of it until I turned the drive shaft now and it was smooth as glass.

Looking harder at the impeller I could see that the vanes were bent in the wrong direction and that the key way on the inner hub was gone. The ends of the vanes look as new so I'm pretty sure this one was not working at all. The cover had been replaced with an aftermarket cover at some point.

I proceeded to pull it all apart and when I pulled the base plate off and looked at the seal it was melted. I cleaned things up and then drained the oil out of it. There was some evidence of water that had settled to the bottom so I put the plug back in and put a quart of Mineral Spirits in it from the top. I ran it through the gears and in no time it was sounding like the bucket of bolts it should when it doesn't have any oil in it.

I drained out the mineral spirits and it was pretty dirty but there weren't any chunks of metal or seal material and the lower seals held with the solvent in it so I think they're all good. I ran a second quart of solvent through it and then blew it out with air.

That was the easy part. Next I had to fix the nasty driveway dings on the skeg and the bullet. I have pic's of that that I'll post tomorrow. It explains easier with pic's. Just to give you an idea, I cleaned it up with paint remover, a wire brush and 80 grit sandpaper. Then I back taped it to build a dam and laid in JB Weld stiffend with aluminum filings that I scavange out of my Grinder's catch bag. Might be more than just aluminum but who cares, it won't hurt anything.

I then turned to the task of cleaning the shop up. I made some headway but I kept finding cool stuff that I forgot I had so I had to stop and make a place for it which meant I had to move something else, ahhhh heck you all get it, the shop is safe now but not a whole lot cleaner. LOL

I left my transfer cable at work so I'll have to upload pic's tomorrow after the usuall Monday amnesia subsidea and people start remembering how to use their computers.

 

[Jeff_G]

Re: 1991 V135 - Project Engine

I'll head into the lower unit inspection, cleaning and patching up. It will get all new upper seals and the water pump will get a full kit. There are no leaks in the lower unit that can be seen but I will vacuum test it just to be sure. Pressure testing can be done with pressure but I prefer vacuum because it's easier to do without making up a special fitting.

I would recommend always pressure and vacuum testing as the seals lips face in both directions. A seal can hold pressure but not vacuum or the other way around. While you do the test turn the shift shaft, prop shaft and drive shaft. You should do your testing through either the vent or fill holes with the gearcase empty of gear oil.
The gearcase running at speed builds up quite a bit of pressure internally, and heat. The water pump on a V-6 can easily exceed 20# of pressure.

 

[sschefer]

Re: 1991 V135 - Project Engine

As promised - Pic's

First lets resolve something - Here is the flywheel with the newly drilled releifs from the recent balancing:

Here is what happens to stators when the flywheel/crank is out of balance. I figure this engine was not run at much more than an idle or the damage would have been more extensive. Note the blisters above the coils, center of the picture. This stator is heading to the garbage can.

This is a fried voltage regulator:

Now for the good stuff, mid section internals all repaired and exterior repainted then rehung on the motor bracket. When rehanging the motor pay careful attention to the torque specs in manual. These are shock mounted and over or under torquing could cause damage to the mid section or exhaust plate:

Dry fitting parts to make sure everything is accounted for, also a good way to store heads:

Cont. in next post...

 

[sschefer]

Re: 1991 V135 - Project Engine

Pics continued...

Driveway damage to lower unit bullet and skeg:

Back tapeing is what I call folding back the tape so as to create a small lip:

A generous amount of JB Weld was applied to the areas and then a layer of tape was placed on top of the back tapeing and the JB Weld was pushed up so that it adequately covers the edge of the skeg for later shaping.

Please note, this is not a fix that will withstand the abuse of hitting a stump or dragging it up the ramp but it will probably hold up fine otherwise.

Here's a handy way to secure things like this while your working on them. Yep, it's the trusty old "Shop Mate". P.S >> The water pump is completly removed so don't do this until after you drain the lube ...