1990 Force L-Drive 90hp -- Can't get it to idle -- losing my mind :D

[Solace]

Hey all, I am still confused on the timing.

I set my timing gun to 32 on the digital meter and tested in neutral and in full gear, here are the results.

It's not crystal clear which timing is correct, neutral or in gear?

The single mark is TDC which I've tested to be true. The other 3 marks are apparently just machine marks and may not represent degrees at all.

So am I good or am I way outa whack here? Also my plugs were super filthy black.


NUETRAL WITH TIMING GUN SET TO 32 DEGREES


FULL FORWARD GEAR WITH TIMIN GUN SET TO 32 DEGREES

 

[Solace]

Initial setting:
Timing advance 28 dgr BTDC at WOT at cranking speed.

Is this in gear, or in neutral WOT? Why is it 28 unlike the manual saying 32? Because of ethanol fuels or whatever?

So I take the TDC mark, set my gun to 28, then line them up?

 

[The Force power]

In the 2nd. picture; the 3 lines (from left to right) 32 - 30 - 28 degrees
Set the timing at 28 by adjusting the little rod attached to the trigger-assembly (right under the Flywheel) visible in the 1st. picture
In gear full throttle cranking speed by jumping the starter (make sure you have a good (tested) battery to work with.
You DON'T SET the timing on your gun. that feature on your gun works only on 4-stroke engines

 

[Solace]

Oh my god guys, I lined up timing properly, set carbs to 1 turn out... she fires. Waiting for iCloud to sync the photo/videos for me so I can share... but I'm heading to the lake RIGHT NOW.

 

[Solace]

In the 2nd. picture; the 3 lines (from left to right) 32 - 30 - 28 degrees
Set the timing at 28 by adjusting the little rod attached to the trigger-assembly (right under the Flywheel) visible in the 1st. picture
In gear full throttle cranking speed by jumping the starter (make sure you have a good (tested) battery to work with.
You DON'T SET the timing on your gun. that feature on your gun works only on 4-stroke engines

Thank you -- heading to lake now.

Here's a photo of the new timing mark, in gear, WOT, light set to 0, cranking by shorting the relay.

Then she started up! Needed some carb spray but she's NEVER run on 1 turn out before.

 

[Solace]

Damnit. She totally failed to start in the water

Gonna take it to a field tomorrow with a bucket on the back so I can play. I can't run it too long downtown in the city it's LOUD and the sound bounces ahah.

 

[The Force power]

Damnit. She totally failed to start in the water

Make sure you work with a fully charged & test good battery, if the flywheel does not spin fast enough; it does not produce enough electricity to spark the plugs.
Of course the starter has to be in good health also to crank fast enough.
(did has thrown me off a few times)

 

[Solace]

Ah you're probably right. Anyway gonna finish static testing with the muffs on and get it idling properly and stuff.

How important is removing the prop in timing? SUPER require or what? Never done it before hehe.

 

[The Force power]

Ah you're probably right. Anyway gonna finish static testing with the muffs on and get it idling properly and stuff.

How important is removing the prop in timing? SUPER require or what? Never done it before hehe.

Prop stays on, how else could you set the right RPM in gear-mode

 

[Solace]

Just trying to figure it out, manual states in step 3 to remove the propeller!

 

[The Force power]

Just trying to figure it out, manual states in step 3 to remove the propeller!

View attachment 347252View attachment 347253

That's more for safety reasons, you can leave the prop on.
Make sure you have the plugs out & ground the plugs, to prevent damage to the CDI-boxes/coils

 

[Solace]

That's more for safety reasons, you can leave the prop on.

GOT IT! Right, ahah. Yep ok my timing is good then. I'm hoping my battery was weak.. here we go again.

 

[Solace]

Hi all, so I had some success, but she still dies going in to gear.

In order to make her idle, I must disconnect the carb link and pull it all the way back. She'll sputter and die going into gear within a few seconds.

But I had it idling well otherwise I suppose.

So I think my timing is STILL retarded. I advanced the timing by closing the timing rod gap and obviously she sounds LOUDER and STRONGER. I just tried in the driveway with muffs on and she starts up instantly into a pure idle with the carb link adjusted properly.

So I'm leaning towards my method of setting timing has just not been correct. The way I had it the boat totally fails to operate properly with stock settings. If I advance timing she's strong but a little fast, but I think I can adjust from there.

I'm still worried about 'rod knock' sound that I had produced a few weeks ago, will keep an ear out for it.. but it's possible I do have rod knock...

 

[Solace]

So I got it to slow idle out on the lake and it starts up fairly easy but some times I do need to spray it. It runs for a few minutes and dies. Pretty sure carbs are adjusted well.

So I went home and re-examined everything. I think my timing is still off, so I super advanced it. Now it starts up very easily, it sounds like it has the missing power -- but it's back to that rod knocking sound. So I put the lid on it to see if that helps with any strange sounds reverberating.

 

[Solace]

Ok this is a check on the configuration

 

[flyingscott]

Stop setting your timing it has nothing to do with the idle. First you do a link and sync. And if the motor would not start out of the water without starting fluid that is a problem. Set the carb low speed screw at 1.5 turns out to start. But I will be totally honest with you it is an L drive otherwise known as the hell drive. By far the biggest POS put out by force. I would sell it for parts. I kind of scanned through this what is your Compression #s? Does spark jump a 7/16" gap?

 

[CaptnKingfisher]

So I got it to slow idle out on the lake and it starts up fairly easy but some times I do need to spray it. It runs for a few minutes and dies. Pretty sure carbs are adjusted well.

So I went home and re-examined everything. I think my timing is still off, so I super advanced it. Now it starts up very easily, it sounds like it has the missing power -- but it's back to that rod knocking sound. So I put the lid on it to see if that helps with any strange sounds reverberating.

This is my first time reading through this thread and I fear for the life of your motor. You may destroy it yet by spraying all that carb cleaner to start it up, advancing the timing and trying to blindly turn screws hoping to find the magic settings. The service manual has specs and you should follow them. Your rough idle or starting problems probably have nothing to do with the things you are currently tweaking and adjusting.

My recommendation to you is to first fix what you have done so far by going through this methodically and setting everything as the manual specifies, then when we're back to "won't start" "won't idle" we can start diagnosing the real reason which likely has nothing to do with timing or idle mixture or idle speed.

If you don't have a battery tender, get one and keep let your batteries get refreshed while you go through this process.
1. Set your timing to 28 degrees.
2. Set your idle speed to about 1100 rpms since I assume you're on muffs. I use my timing light to monitor rpms since my dash tach sucks
3. Set idle mix. If you need the procedure, ask.
4. Check idle rpms, it may have changed when you set your mix so you need to make a final adjustment with your idle speed screw again.

Now you're back to where you were. Probably won't start or idle well. Put down the carb cleaner and let's check out what's really going on. Do you have an adjustable spark tester? Let's make sure you have strong spark (jumps 7/16" on all cylinders). If that's good, let's check compression. There's a million videos on YouTube of how to do this correctly. Tell us your compression numbers. If compression is good and spark is good we can start talking about the fuel system. An easy thing to check before diving into diagnosing fuel problems is to visually inspect the fuel. Siphon some fuel out your tank in a clear glass jar. Visually inspect it for water. Let us know how all of this goes. I sense youre in a big hurry to get out on the lake which I am guilty of doing as well. But remember there aren't any shortcuts and you will save time and find the solution quicker if youre thorough from the start

 

[Solace]

Thanks all I appreciate the replies, no hurry to get on water, she’s my learning boat.

Everything is at manual specs. I’ve link and synced, 1 turn out, you can see the motor running in water but she does eventually at idle, dies shifting into gear. I have had it with different settings get up to 5kph, but it was weird and non spec.

fuel is good I have a separator.

spark plugs for this motor are the weird hapless plugs by spec, and that’s what I’m runnin
spark plugs for this motor are the weird hapless plugs by spec, and that’s what I’m runnin

compression test was good.

I’ve learned a tone during this thread, thanks to all. It’s fascinating to play with this motor. Like adjusting the choke, it’s taken 2 months to understand how carbs work and I was able to adjust it finally and make it start super easy. So I’m learning. Ive never played with motors before, ever. Really been fun!

also the carbs have new needles and been cleaned well… 4 times, just to be sure

any other theories or things to try?

 

[jerryjerry05]

The water sep filter is only good for water and bigger particles.
You still need a fine particle filter installed between the pump and carb.
Fram G-2 G-3 G-12 will work.

 

[Solace]

The water sep filter is only good for water and bigger particles.
You still need a fine particle filter installed between the pump and carb.
Fram G-2 G-3 G-12 will work.

I also have a particle filter before the mechanic pump