1989 maxum remodel with updated pics, advice please

[solar7647]

Re: Need some advice on remodel

Re: Need some advice on remodel

How do you test to see if your transom is rotten? Hopefully its a dry day tomorrow and in the afternoon I can get started on ripping the floor up. When you guys say to use the closed cell panels from home depot, your suggesting just cutting the pieces to fit in between the stringers?

Yes, you just cut then to fit the area. Some people stack them and leave them loose others will glue them together so they don't move around really dosnt make a difference since they will be in a closed in area.

We are thinking that the seat bases are made out of wood and are just fiberglassed in next to the sidewall and appear just to be apart of it. The seat bases themselves appear to be a seperate piece its the little side piece that comes off the sidewall I am scared of. I seen one guy who left these, put a stationary single seat on the front then built a rear bench that had cushions to cover the back of the base to give the whole back a "c" look. Might be a possibility.

In my opinion those pieces your talking about have no strucual value and it will be fine to cut out. I think the reason they are like that is to provide additional flotation foam in thevrear of the boat.

 

[solar7647]

Re: Need some advice on remodel

Re: Need some advice on remodel

Not sure where you got your information on how the density of foam is calculated. Here's where I got mine.
http://www.static.monolithic.com/foam/foam-density/index.html

It appears to be based on the chemical formula when it is being made and the reactions that occur to create the final product, not the size of the area in which it is applied.

The waterlooged foam you refer to in boats does occur but the new pour in foam is a much different animal than it was 20 years ago. Most is rated to day at maximum 10% water absorbency.

I mean dense as in if you cut a block of it down the center does it look like Swiss cheese or not, I wasn't speaking in terms of it's weight. So I guess the better wording would be how porous it is, but the more porous it is the less dense it will be and the less porous it is the more dense it will be. Anyways like it was said already he has some time before he needs to worry about the foam.

 

[wnaplay]

Re: Need some advice on remodel

Re: Need some advice on remodel

Now I am flipflopping on wether to keep the seat bases in place. After my wife seen the pic of how another member on here did his(leaving them in adding cushions to rear of them) that might be what we do. I guess the next question is, is it possible to get into the floor to check the stringers with them left in place? They have to be on top of some of the stringers right?

 

[solar7647]

Re: Need some advice on remodel

Re: Need some advice on remodel

Now I am flipflopping on wether to keep the seat bases in place. After my wife seen the pic of how another member on here did his(leaving them in adding cushions to rear of them) that might be what we do. I guess the next question is, is it possible to get into the floor to check the stringers with them left in place? They have to be on top of some of the stringers right?

Well you can check them in the bilge and if you have a ski locker if there is room to get a drill in there. If they end up being good though make sure you fill in any holes you drill so that you don't provid a spot for water to get in later. If you can figure out were they are you could drill through the deck as well but that would be difficult.

I wouldn't get your hopes up though from your pics I am thinking your gonna find out they need replaced.

Yea I know what you mean on flip flopping, I spent the entire summer before my remodle going back and forth on ideas and going through others rebuild projects didn't help, I kept seeing thing I liked. Lol I ended up deciding on a sun deck by being out on a friends boat that had one and really liked it.

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Need some advice on remodel

Re: Need some advice on remodel

Mark Twain said

"Denial ain't just a river in Egypt. "

 

[wnaplay]

Re: Need some advice on remodel

Re: Need some advice on remodel

Weather has finally started cooperating so I could finally get back into it today. One of the previous owners must have needed access to the fuel tank or was replacing a bad spot of floor on top of it because they did a terrible job cutting the access hole. The stringers are all covered in fiberglass and appear to be in good shape. The floor isnt bad other than it looks well worn, still solid and only one mentionable soft spot. I have had to replace the section of floor in the bow area and I have cut the cross stringers to support this piece and need to glass these in. At this point I need to make some decisions on the back to back seats, wether to take out the bases or incorporate the back half of them into the new rear bench for a "c" shaped seating area. I am still not sure what that bump off the side of each base is actually made of and what it actually does. If I remove these bases I am just putting in new floor and this will raise my costs due to needing captain chairs and access. I have been thinking of the best way to handle the floor if I go with whats there. My options are (and heres where I need advice) 1. put glue down over the floor as is and carpet, 2. sand off old glue(then step 1), 3. glue down a very thin layer of wood over existing floor (then step 1), 4. glass over existing floor (then step 1.) 5. Cover existing floor in a spray on bedliner to seal everything(then step 1). These are just some ideas with no real education behind them so what does everyone think?

 

[wnaplay]

Re: Need some advice on remodel

Re: Need some advice on remodel

Any more advice on building the new sundeck?

 

[wnaplay]

Re: Need some advice on remodel w/pics

Re: Need some advice on remodel w/pics

Took the floor out today. I am unsure how the wood is in place around the back and I am afraid of damaging the motor mount area. Do I remove it the same as the rest of the floor? In the picture of the back you can see those 2 humps that were filled with foam(either side of motor), can I cut those back to the walls and do away with them or are they structural and need rebuilt? The same goes for whats left of the back to back seat bases(replacing with chairs).

 

[wnaplay]

Re: Need some advice on remodel

Re: Need some advice on remodel

Started out today making my biggest mistake of the project so far. 2 mins into it I cut a huge gash into the hull of the boat with my circular saw. I dont even know what I was thinking when I did it and I knew better. When I first took out the floor and seen the foam, it looked completely dry. After sticking my screwdriver into it the first 3" wer however the last 2" were completely soaked so all the foam is out. The stringers are solid and heavily glassed over so I am good there. The transom is solid luckily as well. I now need to figure out where to go from here. Theres heavy fiberglass that covered everything and I need to know if all that needs to be cut out completely or just far enough back so the wood will fit back in and then glass new to old stuff. Its white with red splatter all over it. I know it will be a bear to get off and frankly I dont know the best way to cut it back so the wood will fit since its right on top of the hull itself.There really was nothing in between the wood and the hull. It appears it was layed in place and then this stuff was put right over it to seal it all in. The wood was easily pryed out from under it with little work.

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Need some advice on remodel

Re: Need some advice on remodel

Theres heavy fiberglass that covered everything and I need to know if all that needs to be cut out completely or just far enough back so the wood will fit back in and then glass new to old stuff. Its white with red splatter all over it. I know it will be a bear to get off and frankly I dont know the best way to cut it back so the wood will fit since its right on top of the hull itself.There really was nothing in between the wood and the hull. It appears it was layed in place and then this stuff was put right over it to seal it all in. The wood was easily pryed out from under it with little work.



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Not quite sure what WOOD you are talking about that was easily pryed out. White with red splatter??? Heavy Glass???

As far as cutting the hull that is a fairly easy fix when the time comes. Where is the cut locate in relation to the hull?

 

[wnaplay]

Re: Need some advice on remodel

Re: Need some advice on remodel

Not quite sure what WOOD you are talking about that was easily pryed out. White with red splatter??? Heavy Glass???

As far as cutting the hull that is a fairly easy fix when the time comes. Where is the cut locate in relation to the hull?

The cut is to the left of the engine if your standing in front of it. Its a few inches away from the boats side wall. I have noticed in all the older maxums, the interior below all the wood is covered in what appears to be a finished fiberglass material. It is all failry smooth, fairly thick and its only visible (unless you remove the carpet) in the front storage areas and engine compartment. On the inside sides of the boat you see the fiberglass. As the walls end and the floor begins(it steps down a bit until the floor levels out) this is where this stuff starts and then covers the entire floor and all wood pretty much making it one solid sheet. My problem was that it thinned out as it reached the middle and then as the floor started to rot from damage, this stuff began to fail(being thin) with the weight. The center stuff being very thin came out easily as it was already failing but as you get back towards the walls it is very hard stuff, and thick. The floor stops and this stuff rises up the initial stepups until it reaches the vertical walls, say another 10", where it stops and then you see regular fiberglass. With a little prying and the rest of the floor gone, the wood slid right out from under it leaving the hardened edge left from cutting. When ripped apart it tears and appears to be fiberglass, but its not part of the hull being made reather than put on when all the wood was in place. It appears to be white and it looks like a paintbrush was dipped in red paint and then drizzled over the white for a finished look.

 

[wnaplay]

Re: Need some advice on remodel

Re: Need some advice on remodel

I guess now that I think of it and after reading some more of the forum and others threads, it clicked in my head that what I was referring to above is whats remaining of the fiberglass holding the floor in place. Floor down and the this layed arpond the edges. I am an idiot and its been a long day. With it being fairly thick, whats the best method to remove this layer and get down to the hull? I guess its wishful thinking in hoping that I can leave it, lay my floor and then put my fiberglass strip spanning the new wood and the remaining old stuff? Maybe grind off the white paint or whatever it is on there first and then attach it?

 

[wnaplay]

Re: 1989 maxum remodel with updated pics, advice please

At a standstill until I find out the correct procedure for fixing the hull so I can start getting the floor down. Keep finding bits and pieces of how to do it but being the first time ever fiberglassing anything, I find it hard to understand the fiberglass/product name lingo often used.

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: 1989 maxum remodel with updated pics, advice please

OK, I re-read all of your thread and you have never stated whether or not you actually DRILL tested your stringers and transom. If not why not. You sure don't want to have to pull the deck back out to do it again. Make sure and get all the safety stuff Tyvek suit, respirator, gloves and goggles. 4 1/2 inch grinder, back up pad 24 or 36 grit sanding discs. Grind off EVERYTHING down to fresh glass so the new stuff will adhere properly. For the BOB BOO cut. Put some tape on it on the out side. From the inside grind the entire length of the cut on both sides about 2-3 inches out. mix up some PB and spread it over the cut about 1/8" deep. Let dry. Then make a 3 layered patch each layer 1" larger than the first using 1.5oz CSM. Coat the area with resin Saturate the patch with resin and lay it down and smooth it out. Let it dry. Cut a patch 2" larger from 1708 Biax and lay it and your good to go. On the outside you'll need to Grind it back a bit lay some CSM sand and fair and either Gelcoat or paint.

 

[wnaplay]

Re: 1989 maxum remodel with updated pics, advice please

OK, I re-read all of your thread and you have never stated whether or not you actually DRILL tested your stringers and transom. If not why not. You sure don't want to have to pull the deck back out to do it again. Make sure and get all the safety stuff Tyvek suit, respirator, gloves and goggles. 4 1/2 inch grinder, back up pad 24 or 36 grit sanding discs. Grind off EVERYTHING down to fresh glass so the new stuff will adhere properly. For the BOB BOO cut. Put some tape on it on the out side. From the inside grind the entire length of the cut on both sides about 2-3 inches out. mix up some PB and spread it over the cut about 1/8" deep. Let dry. Then make a 3 layered patch each layer 1" larger than the first using 1.5oz CSM. Coat the area with resin Saturate the patch with resin and lay it down and smooth it out. Let it dry. Cut a patch 2" larger from 1708 Biax and lay it and your good to go. On the outside you'll need to Grind it back a bit lay some CSM sand and fair and either Gelcoat or paint.

Disclaimer: I apologize in advance for the post I am about to type. You experienced guys will probably get a headache from it but I am extremely nervous to get my feet wet doing my first ever fiberglassing experience.

Sorry Woodonglass, I tested the stringers every 8" and they as well as the transom tested fine. I have heard others refer to PB but not sure exactly what it is or where to buy it. I sand down the area, and lay a bed of the PB 1/8" deep including filling the hole(tape keeps it from pouring out), I then dampen old fiberglass, saturate new patch and dab resin over. Once dried I repeat the resin process with the Biax(I believe this is the heavier duty looking woven stuff). Once done I use another patch of the 1.5oz csm stuff on the outside of the cut(1" larger)(as mentioned above 3rd layer), same resin procedure, sand, and paint. Will sanding blend in the edges on the outside patch so it isnt visible or easy ripped off? I dont believe this boat has ever had gelcoat on it so I would have to find a small amout of paint that closely matches the underside of the boat to cover it.

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: 1989 maxum remodel with updated pics, advice please

The ONLY DUMB question ever asked is the one that is NEVER Asked!!!! PB is nothing more than Thickened Resin. You make it yourself my mixing cabosil and chopped fiberglass fibers (1/4") in with the resin and catalyst until it is the consistency of creamy peanut butter. Hence the name PB.

Your Patching Process is correct.
Your boat IS Gelcoated from the factory. Unless a previous owner has Painted it, then it is still gelcoat on the outside. You can choose to re-gelcoat the damaged area OR paint it. Your choice.

 

[wnaplay]

Re: 1989 maxum remodel with updated pics, advice please

Okay, with all the advice I am gaining my confidence again. I plan on tracking down the materials I will need tomorrow. I plan on getting the stuff for the repair as well as what will be needed to seal in the new floor. Just a few more questions so I can try to get most of it at once. My floor was just floating on the stringers and not attached in any way other than being tabbed(I hope this term is correct) all the way around the outside of the hull with fiberglass and completely over the floor. It was directly up against the hull with no spacing or filler material to seal any gaps(I seen another thread where the guy used PB all the way around the edge of the wood in-between the wood and the hull then tabbed the floor with fiberglass over it.

1. Do I add the PB to the gap in between the hull and the wood?
2. How wide of a strip do I use to tie in the wood to the hull?
3. What material do I use for #2 and how many layers? Put in all the layers at once or allow to dry in between?
4. After tabbing the floor, do I then fiberglass the entire floor, if so what material, how many layers.
5. If you do fiberglass the entire floor, is the carpet glued directly to dried glass?
6. Do I need to secure the floor to the stringers or allow it to float as before?

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: 1989 maxum remodel with updated pics, advice please

Here's a drawing of how I recommend you do your deck...
Use the PB mixture to fill the gap between the deck and the hull sides. You do not have to attach the deck to the stringers. Tabbing it to the sides will be enough. Some do some don't. Totally up to you.
Your overlap up the sides of the hull should be 4" for the first layer and 8" for the final layer. Use 1.5oz CSM for the First layer and 1708 Biaxial cloth for the final layer. Or your could just use 3 layers of 1.5oz CSM if you want. Make sure and put a layer of CSM on the bottom of the plywood. Precoat ALL of the wood First. Pay close attention to the edges of the play and really SOAK em good with resin and wrap the CSM around the edges.

(Click the pic to enlarge)

 

[wnaplay]

Re: 1989 maxum remodel with updated pics, advice please

Woodonglass that draw-up is awesome and will certainly come in handy. So I heavily soak all the edges with resin, I suspect to seal them. Do I let the edges dry before applying the bottom layer of csm and subsequantly wrapping the edges with(wrapped from the bottom up and over). Does the csm come in different weights as I have seen you type "csm" in some places and "1.5 oz csm" in others. Roughly how long does this kind of stuff take to dry before I can move onto the next steps?

 

[wnaplay]

Re: 1989 maxum remodel with updated pics, advice please

I must say that using a grinder so close to the hull is very intimidating. There were a few times that it just barely grazed the hull that my heart about sank. What I am guessing is the tabbing for the floor is literally almost an inch thick and theres no way I can grind it all off. I will have to get a pic to see what you guys think. There is one good thing about cutting into my haul a few days ago and that is I am not nearly as worried about the floor being put in wrong now that my focus is put on correctly fixing that screw up. I guess the worst that can happen with the floor is it prematurely rots my wood if I do it wrong not sink the whole boat if I screw up the hole :facepalm:

Also should I use thicker wood for the floor than what was originally there or is it not worth it?