1988 Bayliner Restore or Replace

[boatrup]

Hello everyone.
So I am looking for opinions as I'm having a hard time deciding. I have a 1988 Bayliner Capri 1950 with a 3.0L engine (though I would love a 4.3). I've had the boat for about 7 years. When I got it, I reupholstered most of the interior and put new carpet. I knew the floor wasn't that great so I layered up some new glass on the deck to help it last longer.
Now I need to replace the deck, the rear compartment, and the bulkhead the engine mounts (front mount) to.
Would you say I'm better off restoring this boat or just buying another one? If cost wasn't an issue I wouldn't think twice about getting a different boat. I have about a $6000 budget. If I do restore it, I would like to use all composites instead of wood.
Something to note, stringers and transom are great. Cobra drive is in great condition and shifts perfect. I replaced the prop shaft about 5 years ago and the internals looked practically unused.

Thanks for your opinions!

 

[todhunter]

There's no escape from it - you're either going to pay with money (buying a newer boat) or with time/labor by repairing the one you have. How do you know the stringers and transom are good? It's usually a bad assumption to make when the floor is rotten. My guess is you'll pull up the floor and find soaked foam, rotten stringers, and rotten transom.

A 23/32" sheet of Radaita ACX plywood is about $87 right now in my area (in stock at Lowe's), and a 3/4" sheet of Coosa Bluewater 26 is $383 plus shipping. That's almost 5X the cost. If you use plywood, polyester resin, fiberglass, and encapsulate everything, it should last way longer than the original wood lasted in the boat.

 

[88 Capri (2022 SOTY)]

You will hear from many different people that the floor is the last to rot. I know I went through the same thing. Everything Todd said is 100% accurate.

 

[boatrup]

I was worried about them when I first bought the boat after reading about all the problems with old Bayliners. So, I took drill samples on the stringers and transom and it surprisingly looked good.
I guess I am probably being overly optimistic though lol.

 

[boatrup]

There's no escape from it - you're either going to pay with money (buying a newer boat) or with time/labor by repairing the one you have. How do you know the stringers and transom are good? It's usually a bad assumption to make when the floor is rotten. My guess is you'll pull up the floor and find soaked foam, rotten stringers, and rotten transom.

A 23/32" sheet of Radaita ACX plywood is about $87 right now in my area (in stock at Lowe's), and a 3/4" sheet of Coosa Bluewater 26 is $383 plus shipping. That's almost 5X the cost. If you use plywood, polyester resin, fiberglass, and encapsulate everything, it should last way longer than the original wood lasted in the boat.

Wait, you don't recommend using marine grade plywood? The main reason I was willing to go with the more expensive synthetics was because the last sheet of marine grade plywood I bought was $200 three years ago. Not to mention the only place that had it was 2 hours away.
If your saying to use regular plywood than that changes things up for me.
Oh, and two years ago I did replace a section of the deck by the ladder. To my absolute surprise the foam was dry. I even cut a chunk out to check it further down.

 

[Drivewayboater2]

Old Bayliners aren’t bad if you’re willing to put the effort in to fixing what needs fixing. Any pics of your core samples? You say they’re good. Where did you take samples from?

 

[tpenfield]

I like the idea of using all synthetic materials (rather than wood) for a restoration. The challenge is always trying to manage the cost of materials.
If you do use wood, 'Exterior' grade plywood is more than adequate. No need to use 'Marine' grade. The main difference between the two are the quality of the veneers, Marine grade being the best.

As for synthetic materials . . . Styrene foam is the least expensive, but not compatible with the polyester resins of fiberglass. So, you tend to need urethane foam products instead, which are more expensive. PVC boards/sheets may have some use as backer boards for bulkheads, and component mounting areas. If you have to make engine mounts, I would go with a through-bolt design rather than lag bolts.

 

[todhunter]

Wait, you don't recommend using marine grade plywood? The main reason I was willing to go with the more expensive synthetics was because the last sheet of marine grade plywood I bought was $200 three years ago. Not to mention the only place that had it was 2 hours away.
If your saying to use regular plywood than that changes things up for me.
Oh, and two years ago I did replace a section of the deck by the ladder. To my absolute surprise the foam was dry. I even cut a chunk out to check it further down.

Correct. With Marine Grade plywood, you're paying for A grade veneers on both outer faces. Radiata Pine is specially grown to have less defects when making plys. The Arauco brand of Radiata ACX uses a phenolic (waterproof) resin for bonding the plys, and you get one A grade outer ply on the front and one C grade outer ply on the back. You're going to coat both sides in resin and fiberglass....it's easy enough to fill any voids with a little bit of PB...why pay for A grade on both sides? Some folks even use BCX.

 

[Scott Danforth]

Only you can answer if $3000-$3500 for a restoration is worth it to you.

All exterior grade of plywood has waterproof glue.

Arauco plywood has 9 thinner plus (stringer) compared to the 5 thicker plys of the generic exterior plywood.

Coosa and other synthetic materials are great, but will add many thousands to the build. This is nice if you plan on keeping the boat forever. However does not add resale value should you go to sell it

Bayliner slapped these boats together in the 80s and 90s to get them out the door quickly and to make money. They were expected to last 10-15 years max and be replaced. In many cases, the fiberglass encapsulation was so bad, you could see wood grain under the gel in the bilge (because they just gel coated the wood)

Rebuilding with exterior plywood and poly will be the least expensive, and if you have proper workmanship, it will last longer than originally

To buy or rebuild..... If it's fiberglass anything under $10k should be considered a project until is proven it isn't.

The good news is many small production boat hulls built even 20 years ago have stringer tubs and fully composite decks (minimal to no wood). Conversely.....many of the small boat builders and the larger pocket cruisers, etc still use wood/balsa

The bad news, you can only flex that cyanoacrylate / methacrylate joint so many times before it or the FRP fails. So even today's boats have a design life if 15 years

 

[boatrup]

Thank you all for the advice. I'm still deciding on what I want to do.
I did find a very nice 1990 SeaRay for about $5000 with a 4.3 MerCruiser. It looks like it just rolled out of the factory. Any advice on that before I make a decision?

 

[Scott Danforth]

Thank you all for the advice. I'm still deciding on what I want to do.
I did find a very nice 1990 SeaRay for about $5000 with a 4.3 MerCruiser. It looks like it just rolled out of the factory. Any advice on that before I make a decision?

That is a 34 year old boat. It also still has lots of wood in it

 

[boatrup]

Only you can answer if $3000-$3500 for a restoration is worth it to you.

All exterior grade of plywood has waterproof glue.

Arauco plywood has 9 thinner plus (stringer) compared to the 5 thicker plys of the generic exterior plywood.

Coosa and other synthetic materials are great, but will add many thousands to the build. This is nice if you plan on keeping the boat forever. However does not add resale value should you go to sell it

Bayliner slapped these boats together in the 80s and 90s to get them out the door quickly and to make money. They were expected to last 10-15 years max and be replaced. In many cases, the fiberglass encapsulation was so bad, you could see wood grain under the gel in the bilge (because they just gel coated the wood)

Rebuilding with exterior plywood and poly will be the least expensive, and if you have proper workmanship, it will last longer than originally

To buy or rebuild..... If it's fiberglass anything under $10k should be considered a project until is proven it isn't.

The good news is many small production boat hulls built even 20 years ago have stringer tubs and fully composite decks (minimal to no wood). Conversely.....many of the small boat builders and the larger pocket cruisers, etc still use wood/balsa

The bad news, you can only flex that cyanoacrylate / methacrylate joint so many times before it or the FRP fails. So even today's boats have a design life if 15 years

The cost to restore it I do think is worth it. My hesitation mostly just comes from the time it'll take, and not really having a good place to do the work (live in an apartment). I keep it parked on the street at my sisters during the summer, and at my parents in the back during the winter.

Here's a bit of back story on the boat. I am actually only the second owner of the boat. The first owners used it a lot for the first two years then it just stayed parked in a shed. The last five years before I bought it, it was parked uncovered getting hammered by the rain, snow, and sun.

 

[Scott Danforth]

The last five years before I bought it, it was parked uncovered getting hammered by the rain, snow, and sun.

Death for boats

 

[boatrup]

Old Bayliners aren’t bad if you’re willing to put the effort in to fixing what needs fixing. Any pics of your core samples? You say they’re good. Where did you take samples from?

Sadly no pictures, that was 7 years ago. The transom samples were taken at the bottom, mid, and top. Stringer samples were taken mid height, at the rear of engine compartment, front of engine compartment, and as far forward of the hull as I could get.

 

[boatrup]

Death for boats

Yes for sure. Terrible a boat with very little use, and stored inside most of its life, got destroyed from a few years of nobody caring.

 

[boatrup]

That is a 34 year old boat. It also still has lots of wood in it

Do you think it'll likely have far fewer problems? It was obviously cared for better. The owner said its shrink wrapped every winter and is always covered when not in use.

 

[88 Capri (2022 SOTY)]

The cost to restore it I do think is worth it. My hesitation mostly just comes from the time it'll take, and not really having a good place to do the work (live in an apartment). I keep it parked on the street at my sisters during the summer, and at my parents in the back during the winter.

Here's a bit of back story on the boat. I am actually only the second owner of the boat. The first owners used it a lot for the first two years then it just stayed parked in a shed. The last five years before I bought it, it was parked uncovered getting hammered by the rain, snow, and sun.

 

[88 Capri (2022 SOTY)]

The thing with projects is you can spread the costs over time, where the alternative are fixed boat payments.
Whichever way you go is obviously up to you, my boat is a 1988 1750 and I have no regrets about redoing her.
Depending on the extent of what you need to do, don't have a fixed time-line on completion because to do it right takes time otherwise you drive yourself crazy.
If you check out the link in my signature it will give you some idea what you MAY have to do.
This was my first time and I doubt I'd do it again because I love this boat and still have work to do but I am glad I did it.
I made mistakes and redid them, the people here have endless knowledge and I would never have got her in the water again if it wasn't for them.
I used exterior grade plywood with 2 coats of resin prior to installation and glass with no issues.
If you do any rebuilding it will most likely be better quality then originally and it lasted this long.

 

[88 Capri (2022 SOTY)]

Do you think it'll likely have far fewer problems? It was obviously cared for better. The owner said its shrink wrapped every winter and is always covered when not in use.

Until you investigate typical areas of rot thourghly we can't honestly say either way, just advice from past experience.
Like otherwise stated we can be more accurate looking at photos.
Shrinkwrapped boats can hold high humidity levels if there is already moisture present, but is better than being uncovered, at least with the age of the boat. I can tell you the craftsmanship was horrible in '88.
Your boat could be an exception and I hope it is

 

[Scott Danforth]

Do you think it'll likely have far fewer problems? It was obviously cared for better.

I think it will be different problems. As stated prior. Assume any fiberglass boat under $10k is a project