1987 Larson DC-215 restoration

[dezmond]

I love epoxy and it’s really not that much more since you use less. I did a complete tear down and so far have installed my transom, stringers, bulkheads, filled 2 big chines with PB, ran a decent amount of PB down my main keel, tabbing all the parts, wrapping everything with 2 layers of 17oz biax and / or 10oz cloth and I have only used about 6 gallons of resin. With poly I am sure that would be 10-12 gallons.

Also i doesn’t smell and I believe it is a lot stronger (my opinion).

I was a newbie as well when I started in the boat restore stuff. Check out my thread and you can see how easy it really is.

These guys on here give us honest and experienced suggestions. They have done this before (some more than others) and they know what they are talking about to help us have a safe and fun boat that will last for a very long time.

If I had a small soft spot or even damp spot on my transom, it would be replaced knowing what I know now.

 

[dezmond]

Sorry for talking so much. You got a fair bit of work still to do. Once the boat is down to just glass (after you pull your stringers and bulkheads) you will be making it snow for a while. Yes grrrrrrrinding. Get your respirator, lots of gloves, suits, etc, grinder(s) and 60grit discs and go to town. While your doing this is a good time to figure out what you need for supplies. I love the west system. You will need a lot of 406 for sure. Also get the 403 and 404. They both work really good for making your pb.

 

[sms986]

Please, talk more! That's what I'm here for!

Anyway, I'm sold on the transom. I'm going to dive in. Looking at it from the inside I can see where the wood is. There are two layers of plywood. One that covers the whole transom, and one that is square and only covers to about 6-8 inches outside of the outdrive. I think I will put two tabs on the outer one, one on the left and one on the right, both extending about 12 inches out at about 8 inches high so that I can mount a kicker on either side.

I do have one major concern with this boat. The front of the keep, where the hook is to trailer the boat, is leaking. There was water in the front of the deck. I don't know yet if it is structural or just a bad seal, but it concerns me as it now indicates that there may be damage to the hull.

Today wasn't a productive day, but I am going to be working diligently tomorrow to remove everything. I have everything out except for the engine, all controls, and the gas tank. So all of the trim, accessories, and cabin parts are removed. Tomorrow I will be guttng the rest and putting the engine on a pallet stand for the winter. I PROMISE I will get some pictures. I'd love to post my process for other first timers to show that it's not too difficult (if I have any luck with it), and I'd also like you guys to see how it's coming. Also, it's been nagging me but the boat is an 89, not an 87. I get this one and my roughmeck confused a lot. Not that it matters, but I want to be accurate.

So, that being said, once the boat is gutted, I've put together a to do list for it. MY BIGGEST QUESTION is if I have to support the hull. Id like to do the boat in sections. Honestly, it's not bad at all. Probably could have gotten a few more years before tearing it apart, but I'm in it now and ready to go. I've read many mixed opinions on supporting the hull and how to replace stringers, but I'd like to do them in sections so that I can keep the old glass shells for each stringer in place until I'm ready to install the new ones, just so I know how exactly they go back in. For construction, I have a few questions:

1. What kind of wood? It's all 1/2"-3/4" plywood, but the only info I can find is "outdoor wood."

2. My general process will be as follows:
a. Remove old stringer/bulkhead
b. Grind residual glass down to the hull
c. Scuff the area up well with 50 grit
d. Measure and cut new stringer/bulkhead
e. Coat new wood with resin/hardener mix a few times until the mixture sits on top of the wood and stops absorbing in.
f. Mix up some pb
g. Make a pb bead on the hull along the length of the stringer
h. Sink stringer into place, leaving 1/4"-1/2" of pb in between the wood and the hull
i. Make a 1/2" fillet along each side of the stringer with the squeezed out pb
j. Apply 3-4 layers of glass to each side, extending each layer 2 inches past the previous.
Is this a good process to follow?

3. What kind of glass mat do you guys recommend?

4. Do I have to let each layer completely cure before adding the next, or can I continue once the layer is tacky?

5. Hull support! Yes or no?

Thank you all and I hope you enjoyed your holiday!

 

[oldrem]

As far as plywood, marine grade is always best but most expensive. ACX, BCX or even CCX can be used if properly sealed

 

[tpenfield]

Look for "Exterior" grade plywood. 1/2" is fine for stringers. You can do 3/4" for bulkheads and the transom will typically get 2 x 3/4" sheets to ,make the 1-1/2" core.

 

[Woodonglass]

Have you read and studied any of the major rebuilds here on the forum? If not, I highly recommend that you do. You will have most of your questions answered with a LOT of Pics and explanations on every aspect of a total boat restoration. This would be a good place to start...https://forums.iboats.com/forum/boat...ation?t=510077
You should understand this...You're looking at a minimum of 200 man hours and $3,000 in costs. Slow down, READ a LOT here on the forum. Study the pics and explanations and THEN start your project.

You might find this helpful too!!
Fabricating Decks, Stringers, and Transoms

View attachment WOG Material List (3).docx

Just an Old Dumb Okies Opinion. Others may vary!!!
:faint2:

 

[sms986]

Believe me, I've been studying the forums for the past few days. I've been through the first link you posted up there in detail twice. It is, however, difficult to determine a best procedure. I like to ask questions to learn the explaination behind the answers and also to be sure of what I am doing. I won't be starting the glassing until the end of January, but I would like to be prepared. The boat is here in PA and I live in NC now, so I get once a month to come up for a long weekend and I'd rather sort everything out while I'm away than scramble to get things figured out while I have some working days. I do learn a lot in the forums though, such as how to make pb. I didn't even know what that was before. Many suggestions and builds are subjective though and differ from project to project. I want to build myself a database of knowledge and choose what's best from there.

 

[Woodonglass]

Glass work is glass work. The methods described in the link are some of the best. It's doubtful that your questions have not been answered multiple times and in multiple ways. My suggestion was only meant to keep you from asking them again. The more to read and study the more you'll find the answers. Using the forum search for topics of Transoms, Stringers Decks Glassing etc... will bring up mulitiple posts on the subjects. I'd say 2-3 months of research will go a LONG way to answer most questions. Frisco Boater had never done any glass work prior to coming on the forum with his project. The members here guided him to some very good work. Your project is basically the same.. Your skill levels and ability to follow the guidelines should give you excellent results. The type and amount of materials used IS a personal preference. Costs will vary. Everyone has their opinions on best methods and materials. This has been discussed ad infinitum here. There ARE some distinct NO'NO's that you should become familiar with. i.e. Stringers not touching the hull, No glass work in temps below 60 degrees etc... It's common for newb's to overthink the processes so we all understand. It's always best to seek the advice of experience before undertaking major tasks. That's what this forum is all about. Your dedicated research will save you and us time and speed up your restoration. This advice is meant to help you with this speed up. We always answer members questions when asked or guide them to the projects that will answer them. Please understand I'm only trying to help you with getting the best answers in the quickest most effective way.

 

[sms986]

I understand. In no way am I attempting to disrespect you or anyone else on here. You guys are all awesome and you've saved many people's butts on projects like these. I guess I get ahead of myself on questions because I've always liked to have something I don't understand explained to me, rather than reading mixed reviews. Before I begin glassing, I am going to do a lot of research. Like I said before, I'm no stranger to glassing. I spent 4 months building a custom fiberglass cowl hood and I was very particular about everything I did. I just want what's safest for my passengers and I. That being said, I'm headed back to the shop tonight and I'll get some pictures up for you guys before I leave.

Thanks a lot!

 

[sms986]

So tonight didn't turn out too productive. I only ended up having 3 hours to work on the boat. However, I got the engine and outdrive pulled and also pulled out some other small things. Tomorrow I will be pulling out what's left in the boat, which is just the gear on the transom and the gauge console. Gas tank will be pulled and I'm going to remove all of the carpet adhesive on the hull as well as wash it all out. Here are some pics of the stringer rot.

 

[kcassells]

I do love that rotted wood and glass. Pay no attention to Woodonglass , he just gits knarly at times.

 

[sms986]

So, I've got good news! We made room in the warehouse today to put the boat for the duration of this project. This means no more cutting in sections and transporting a disassembled hull!

I wanted to give a little recap of the project so far to give some firsthand experience pointers to other first time restorers.

1. Remove everything from the boat. I entirely gutted the cabin, controls, hardware, and trim on the boat. I did this for 3 reasons. First, it serves no structural purpose. Second, if you leave it in there, that just makes more obstacles to try to navigate around when working. Third, if you don't remove it, you'll get glass all over it all when you start grinding. I supported the cap of the cabin with a few 4x4's just to keep the weight from pushing the sides of the boat out at all. When I go to do the repairs I will make an external support to hold it up.

2. When removing trim and other panels, such as the cabin compartments, avoid using the crowbar at all costs. I'm sure most boats are similar to mine, where all of the trim is bolted down in some way, and none of it was glassed in on mine. Using a crowbar is a sure way to damage the panels you're pulling as well as possibly the hull.

3. Keep the boat clean. For the first half of the teardown I wasted so much time digging in the mess for tools and bolts that I had dropped. I also spent a lot of time moving the junk around to access different work areas. I started taking a few Tupperware bins up and filling them with the junk as well as rinsing the hull out frequently. This made it so much easier!

4. When removing the floorboards, I kept about 2" of the tabbing all around each board so that I can use it as a reference for the deck height later on. I used a grinder and a crowbar and cut stress concentrators all along the tabbing where the deck met the stringers/bulkheads. In doing this I was able to pull almost all of them out by hand. I also used a sawzaw to remove bulk parts of the deck in-between the stringers and to cut the deck into sections for removal. I know a lot of people struggle with getting the deck off, but it took me about an hour and a half to do it this way.

I'll be moving the boat to the warehouse at the end if January and I'll get started on cutting out the transom next. I'll post some pictures of the gutted boat first!

 

[sms986]

So, I've spent a little more time on the boat this weekend. Everything, and I mean everything, is now out except for the transom and the stringers. I left a 2'x3' piece of the deck in the rear of the boat just to have a "workbench" in there and it'll probably be the last thing I take out before putting in new wood. My advice: DO THIS! I was able to have a place to put all of the hardware I picked up from the hull, a pop, my tools, and all of the things I was taking out, and nothing was rolling around on the bare hull of the boat. Much easier to keep organized! Like I said, I'll probably leave this in until I've completely grinded away all of the old glass and all just so I have a little workspace. I took the top wood off of the transom and I have a few interesting finds to share with you. First, it wasn't even attached to the back panel of the transom. It was tabbed in all around, but other than that, it looked like there were three quarter sized dabs of adhesive holding it on. I cut the glass off of the outside with a grinder and pulled it off by hand. Second, the entire transom didn't have a skin on it. It was tabbed in and painted. I had a mystery thud a while back when driving the boat that shook the whole boat when I accelerated and sounded like a sledgehammer on a wood box. I now believe that mystery thud was the two plywood panels of the transom separating! The top tab and part of the side tabs of the front panel were cracked clean. I didn't have to grind these spots. I'd imagine that separation was the sound I heard.

That being said, I've done a lot of research, and I still have a few more weeks of research to go before I am able to work on the boat. I've measured all of the bulkheads and stringers and I will be cutting and laminating those as well as the transom while I am down south. I'll do the stringers slightly oversized and re-laminate the ends when I adjust them later to fit them in the boat. This will save me a lot of time when the boat is actually accessible again. I drilled some holes in the stringers and bulkheads and made sure all of the water will drain out of the boat because I am going to leave it uncovered while I am away. It's going to rain hard and I want the rotted wood to be as soft as possible when I pull it out. (I'll only be gone for three weeks so I'm not concerned with them falling apart).

The only thing I have not figured out is how to support the boat when I cut everything out. This is the only thing I've had trouble finding pictures of. The boat is on a load rite roller trailer right now. I'd assume I need to support it somehow, correct? The boat will not be moved for the duration of the project. It will be in the warehouse the entire time. So, do I need to support it, and if so, how should I go about doing it?

 

[chevymaher]

yes a roller trailer needs supported. I have seen a few doing it passing through here. I got a bunker trailer so mine was fine.

Hang tough someone knows where the pictures are. Basically look at a bunker trailer. Where the wood is on them is where you want to support it.

 

[sms986]

Yeah, but the thing is, where the "bunks" would go is where the rollers are... Haha. But really, I have thought about how to slide like 2x6 slabs of board in between the trailer and the rollers but I am stumped. Our forklift came over on the Mayflower so I don't plan on attempting to lift the boat with it. That was my only thought. I've seen people put supports on the outer chines and the keel. The chines I can see, but the keel? I've seen people put a 2x4 along the keep and "jack it up" with 2x4's underneath it. How is it good to put the weight of the boat on the vertex of the whole thing? I think I'll pass on that one. Keep in mind, I'd like to avoid spending more money on wood to support the boat than on wood to go in the boat...

I've got 3 weeks to figure it out though!

 

[mickyryan]

make a couple saddles for it and take it off trailer, if you do it right you wont have anything to worry about and have a solid foundation for walking around in it i even seen some put rollers on them so they can still move the boat around, remove engine and work from back to front cut out transom or you will regret it after its stabilized remove cap so you can really get into it , also dont forget flip cap cut out all the wood bedding in the cap and replace" i prefer arjay 6011 for this" . because most likely thats rotted as well.once you replace the bedding with arjaY IT WILL NEVER ROT AGAIN. ALSO LOOK INTO SEACAST ITS WELL WORTH IT OR ARJAY FOR THE TRANSOM AND STRINGERS .sorry capslock ugh

 

[sms986]

Do you have a picture of these saddles?

 

[oldrem]

These are what I made for mine. Screwed them to some furniture dollies. Worked great and was easy to move around.

 

[sms986]

I think what I am going to do is build a cradle similar to that, but I will have to build it around the trailer. I can put together a cradle under the boat that just barely touches the hull, then just deflate the tires and lower the trailer jack. I don't really mind the trailer being underneath, it's not in the way.

 

[sms986]

Well, I've spent the week doing research and gathering supplies. I now have everything I need except for the wood. I have a few questions/discussions I'd like to have before I start cutting things up and jumping in.

1. Is it worth it? My answer is yes. I've seen these boats go for as much as $5,000-$6,000, and money isn't really my goal here. My way of looking at it is once I'm done, it'll be good for another 30 years or so, or I could save the money for the rebuild and buy a different boat. Chances are that the boats within my price range are going to have some work to be done, and the stringers will not be new and/or fiberglass. I paid $250 for this boat, and no that's not a typo. We have a few accounts with hardware stores so I got EVERYTHING I need except for wood, including 5 gallons of west system 105 and all of the necessary tools. I may need more 105, but that's going to be another $500 on top of the $1000 I've spent so far. All I need is wood. I haven't done any detailed measurements, but I know I will not need more than 10 sheets of 4x8, so with Douglas fir, I'm looking at around $2,000 total. With the rebuilt motor cost and the original cost of the boat, I'm in for about $2,500. So I put in all this work for a $2500 boat that will last until I retire, or I can spend that money on another boat that could last another 5-10 years. Sound logical?

​​​​I'm going to put together a detailed spreadsheet of tools and materials as my contribution to the iboat community. I know it won't be the same for other builds, but it'll give other first timers a visual of the tools and materials needed to get the job done. The only thing left is wood. I'm going to scratch BCX because I was looking at wood the other day and noticed a lot of gaps in the plies where moisture could creep in. Its between oak and Douglas fir. Any suggestions? The boat has a lot of structure above the deck as well, stuff like the sink and the bathroom. These were wrapped in vinyl and I think I am going to replace them with oak boards and stain them and coat with poly rather than wrapping in vinyl. I like the look of stained wood better. For the stringers, I'm still debating, and I could use some suggestions.

Last, I know this doesn't belong in this forum but I am not going to start a new thread for one simple question. I need an oil dipstick tube for my motor. It's a 1989 mercruiser 5.0, but I know it has a larger sump. Does anyone know the gm part number for this tube? I can not find it anywhere and I refuse to pay $80 for a marine tube when I can buy one from advanced for $25.