1986 MonArk Rebuild / Restoration

enforce

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Re: 1986 MonArk rebuild / Restoration Continued

Re: 1986 MonArk rebuild / Restoration Continued

thanks for the advice!

i did my measurements the other day...it took a few hours...i think I am ready to remove all the rest of the deck edges and the remainders of the stringers and bulkheads, etc...

thanks!
 

QC

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Re: 1986 MonArk rebuild / Restoration Continued

Re: 1986 MonArk rebuild / Restoration Continued

I don't know if I messed this up or not. Moved them all to this thread. Sorry if I left something behind guys . . .
 

enforce

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Re: 1986 MonArk rebuild / Restoration Continued

Re: 1986 MonArk rebuild / Restoration Continued

thank you very much! appreciate it!

sorry about that...
 

enforce

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Re: 1986 MonArk rebuild / Restoration Continued

Re: 1986 MonArk rebuild / Restoration Continued

well, now that i have brought everyone up to date...my questions begin...

i am going to insert images for each question to help show exactly what i am talking about...i hope this helps...

1. Hull - as i stated in a previous post, the hull seems to be extremely thin. I would like to perhaps add a layer or two of glass. Is this wise to do?IMG_3746a.jpg

2. Stringers - the original stringers did not start at the transom and continue all the way up to the bow area. They started at the ski locker bulkhead. I would like to install the new stringers starting at the transom wall. Is this OK to do? IMG_3685a.jpg

3. Transom Wall Supports - the original transom wall supports were (what I consider) very small. I would like install new larger supports...both height and length and thickness. Is this OK to do?
IMG_3683aa.jpgIMG_3748aa.jpg

4. Transom Wall - the original transom wall did not extend to the top edge of the hull / the cap edge. Any idea why? I would like to install a new transom wall that does extend all the way to the cap edge of the hull. Is this OK to do?
IMG_3749aa.jpg

Any thoughts and insight would be greatly appreciated!

I will post additional questions in a little while
 

enforce

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Re: 1986 MonArk Rebuild / Restoration Questions Continued

Re: 1986 MonArk Rebuild / Restoration Questions Continued

More questions regarding my thoughts...

1. Hull Cap Edge - the original hull cap edge has a 1/4" plywood brace, glassed to the hull. It looks like this was used for the cap crews. Of course, it is completely rotted, dried out and falling apart. When I removed the cap, i simply unscrewed all the screws around the cap and pushed up on the cap and it just popped up and off...really very easy. There was no sealant (silicone / PL) along the cap edge...this would explain the rotten plywood edge...

I would like to install a new plywood cap edge, thicker...perhaps 1/2" to 5/8" thick for a few reasons;
a). stronger stability along the cap edge
b). a thicker screwing surface for the cap screws
c). a thicker surface to apply a generous amount of sealant along the cap edge

Is my train of thought correct on this?
03a.jpg

2. Fuel Tank and Fuel Tank Area - the original fuel tank was situated at the stern of the boat. It sat just behind the ski locker bulkhead and extended side to side. It seems to me to be a lot of weight at the stern of the boat. I would like to install a new fuel tank in the ski locker area (long and thin). I do realize that this idea means a bit of customization with regard to where the two main stringers will sit. The two main stringers will also act as the fuel tank walls. So, depending upon the new fuel tank dimensions (in particular width and height), this will determine where the two main stringers will be situated.
Also, the original fuel tank was aluminum. I am not sure what material i should choose for the new tank...aluminum or plastic? any thoughts...
IMG_3645aa.jpg

so, that's it for now...any insight would be greatly appreciated!

I'm off to do some more grinding...thanks!
 

oops!

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Re: 1986 MonArk rebuild / Restoration Continued

Re: 1986 MonArk rebuild / Restoration Continued

well, now that i have brought everyone up to date...my questions begin...

i am going to insert images for each question to help show exactly what i am talking about...i hope this helps...

1. Hull - as i stated in a previous post, the hull seems to be extremely thin. I would like to perhaps add a layer or two of glass. Is this wise to do?View attachment 125457

in a lot of hulls......pour in foam was actually a structural component of the hull.....with the foam removed....the hull can and will seem flimsy
there is no problem with adding two layers of 1.5 csm in the hull for added stregnth and stiffness......you could go with a full wrap of 1708.....but that will be about 100 lbs added weight after everything is said and done


2. Stringers - the original stringers did not start at the transom and continue all the way up to the bow area. They started at the ski locker bulkhead. I would like to install the new stringers starting at the transom wall. Is this OK to do? View attachment 125458

yes.....

3. Transom Wall Supports - the original transom wall supports were (what I consider) very small. I would like install new larger supports...both height and length and thickness. Is this OK to do?
View attachment 125459View attachment 125460
yes it is ok to do.....but actually.....your transom is really strong with all the other supports on it


4. Transom Wall - the original transom wall did not extend to the top edge of the hull / the cap edge. Any idea why? I would like to install a new transom wall that does extend all the way to the cap edge of the hull. Is this OK to do?
View attachment 125461

the gap is for the backing plate of the deck hull joint....i would not use plywood.....you could go 1/4 inch if you wished....i used cedar lathing

deckingset10007.jpg

deckingset10009.jpg

deckingset10001.jpg

deckingset10002.jpg

Any thoughts and insight would be greatly appreciated!

I will post additional questions in a little while

....
 

oops!

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Re: 1986 MonArk Rebuild / Restoration Questions Continued

Re: 1986 MonArk Rebuild / Restoration Questions Continued

2. Fuel Tank and Fuel Tank Area - the original fuel tank was situated at the stern of the boat. It sat just behind the ski locker bulkhead and extended side to side. It seems to me to be a lot of weight at the stern of the boat. I would like to install a new fuel tank in the ski locker area (long and thin). I do realize that this idea means a bit of customization with regard to where the two main stringers will sit. The two main stringers will also act as the fuel tank walls. So, depending upon the new fuel tank dimensions (in particular width and height), this will determine where the two main stringers will be situated.
Also, the original fuel tank was aluminum. I am not sure what material i should choose for the new tank...aluminum or plastic? any thoughts...
View attachment 125470

so, that's it for now...any insight would be greatly appreciated!

I'm off to do some more grinding...thanks!

plastic or alum....its your call......alum can leak....plastic can break down when rubbed under the deck, and is easer to screw thru if you mess up decking
 

enforce

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Re: 1986 MonArk Rebuild / Restoration Continued

Re: 1986 MonArk Rebuild / Restoration Continued

thanks for the insight...a few questions regarding your response...

1. why cedar? is there much of a difference with what type of wood used (except hard wood), especially if i plan to fully wrap it in glass and resin?

2. so i guess regarding the gas tank...6 of one / half dozen of the other...both have their pros and cons...just a preference choice....

3. wrapping hull - an additional 100 lbs is not that bad when considering the boat had all that extra water weight...approximately how much extra weight would the two layers of 1.5 csm add? which would be better 1 layer of 1708 or two layers of 1.5 csm?...and why...

this subject actually leads into a discover i made today while grinding and sanding....i will try to explain as best i can, along with a few pics...

Today, while grinding, cutting and sanding the last little bit if the plywood from the transom (along the bottom edge of the transom and the hull), being so close to this area with my face, as i has to be really careful not to go thru the transom, i noticed a few things;

a). the white speckled hard surface is the top surface, then under this is a really bad / sloppy csm layer with tons of dry areas which look like old rotted air bubbles / pockets that were never taken care of when they installed this layer, then under this layer is another layer of what looks like nice thick glass...so there seems to be 3 layers of various types of glass work...the white layer is tough to grind, the second layer is pretty easy to grind, the third layer is what i want to get down to and this will be my starting point. Is this correct? from this layer, i will add a few layers of 1.5 csm or a nice layer of 1708...let me know your thoughts...
IMG_3827aa.jpg

b) while grinding, i noticed what i would call "hull ribs". They are about 1" thick. There are three on both sides of the hull floor, running the full length of the hull. They are in pretty bad shape. they are under the really bad layer of CSM. i uncovered a few inches of two of these ribs, near the transom, and found that they are pretty wet and somewhat rotten. what is their purpose? they seem to be simply placed on the hull floor and then glassed over...are they actually needed? if so, i am assuming that i will have to remove and replace all of them...correct? if so, what type of wood should be used?
IMG_3834aa.jpg
02a.jpg

thanks for any input!

i have a few more questions that i will post in a little while...
 

enforce

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Re: 1986 MonArk Rebuild / Restoration Continued

Re: 1986 MonArk Rebuild / Restoration Continued

a few more hours of grinding and cutting and I found a few holes in the hull...i am assuming these guys are the culprits for the interior hull water damage
IMG_3845aa.jpgIMG_3844aa.jpg

a few pics of my progress...this transom section is taking quite a bit of time...
IMG_3864aa.jpgIMG_3859aaa.jpg

more to come...
 

oops!

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Re: 1986 MonArk Rebuild / Restoration Continued

Re: 1986 MonArk Rebuild / Restoration Continued

hi bud......thanks for the pm...

lots of really great questions.

i have to go do some work for a bud right now.... ill be back later on tonight i hope.... ill catch up with the answers then....

but the holes in the hull are testimonial to the usefulness of the foam you took out....better wet foam than a sunk boat !

cheers
oops
 

oops!

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Re: 1986 MonArk Rebuild / Restoration Continued

Re: 1986 MonArk Rebuild / Restoration Continued

Sorry I didnt get back on last night.....Mrs oops is a little under the weather and I had to play Nurse maid for her.


thanks for the insight...a few questions regarding your response...

1. why cedar? is there much of a difference with what type of wood used (except hard wood), especially if i plan to fully wrap it in glass and resin?

The cedar was pre cut, the perfect size, so i used it,,,,,it just needs to be a backing plate for the bolts I am using. glass ing the backing for the reevits or bolts is really over kill. It will also add rigidity to the cap. this will make it very difficult when fitting the cap back on.....it can be a real pain at the best of times, and with the extra rigidity, it might be near impossible.


2. so i guess regarding the gas tank...6 of one / half dozen of the other...both have their pros and cons...just a preference choice....

Pretty much, except the fittings and tank well is the factor over having one custom made and buying a pre built one off iboats

3. wrapping hull - an additional 100 lbs is not that bad when considering the boat had all that extra water weight...approximately how much extra weight would the two layers of 1.5 csm add? which would be better 1 layer of 1708 or two layers of 1.5 csm?...and why...

Two layers of CSM is far lighter than a single layer and a full wrap of 1708 the 1708 is 25 oz per yard plus the weight of the 1.5 CSM.....that means you are at 26.5 oz per yard plus another 10 gals of resin that you will need to use for the big knitted fabric.
Two layers of csm will add rigidity to the hull in significant values to do what you want......the extra layers ...plus the foam will stiffen the hull great, plus it will keep some of the flex for a softer ride.
you can go with the single layer of CSM and 1708,,,,it will work...and work well.....but the hull will stiffen, and your ride will change a stiff hull is great.....but it will really bang down coming off a big wave.....if you plan on no foam.....i would do a full CSM and 1708 wrap.
either way......the wraps should come up to the deck line......then the tabbing of the deck will continue another 6 inches up the hull.


this subject actually leads into a discover i made today while grinding and sanding....i will try to explain as best i can, along with a few pics...

Today, while grinding, cutting and sanding the last little bit if the plywood from the transom (along the bottom edge of the transom and the hull), being so close to this area with my face, as i has to be really careful not to go thru the transom, i noticed a few things;

a). the white speckled hard surface is the top surface, then under this is a really bad / sloppy csm layer with tons of dry areas which look like old rotted air bubbles / pockets that were never taken care of when they installed this layer, then under this layer is another layer of what looks like nice thick glass...so there seems to be 3 layers of various types of glass work...the white layer is tough to grind, the second layer is pretty easy to grind, the third layer is what i want to get down to and this will be my starting point. Is this correct? from this layer, i will add a few layers of 1.5 csm or a nice layer of 1708...let me know your thoughts...
View attachment 125516

the white speceled layer is the flow coat over the glass....under it is a chopped strand and resin mix that came out of a chopper gun......the bubbled areas are where the manufacturers did not use resin rollers to roll out the hull properly......this is common on faster production lines. i would just grind off the flow coat over the glass, but not take off the chopped.....(except any loose strand areas) this will give you a solid surface to bond the new layer to.
If you do grind too deep, just add a single CSM and a 1708 over the area to re inforce the hull


b) while grinding, i noticed what i would call "hull ribs". They are about 1" thick. There are three on both sides of the hull floor, running the full length of the hull. They are in pretty bad shape. they are under the really bad layer of CSM. i uncovered a few inches of two of these ribs, near the transom, and found that they are pretty wet and somewhat rotten. what is their purpose? they seem to be simply placed on the hull floor and then glassed over...are they actually needed? if so, i am assuming that i will have to remove and replace all of them...correct? if so, what type of wood should be used?
View attachment 125517
View attachment 125518


I like those ribs, or mock stringers ! those will stregnthen the hull tremendously,,,,,,any time you have glass in bulk like an ibeam.....the structural integrity is doubled or tripled.
I would cut out the rot, and replace them........remember .....the rule of thumb....is replace what was there !


thanks for any input!

i have a few more questions that i will post in a little while...
 

oops!

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Re: 1986 MonArk Rebuild / Restoration Continued

Re: 1986 MonArk Rebuild / Restoration Continued

a few more hours of grinding and cutting and I found a few holes in the hull...i am assuming these guys are the culprits for the interior hull water damage
View attachment 125713View attachment 125715

Those holes are big enough to sink you if you didnt have foam in the boat. That is the main reason i like pour in foam.....With the foam right next to and attached to , or bonded to the hull....you didn't even know the holes were there!.....you just went out on your merry way and boated till you you started to notice the boat was getting heavy.
the foam acts as a patch over any breach in the hull.....IMHO.....this really saves lives ! It does a fantastic job of what its purpose is. the only problem...is is eventually waterloggs and gets heavy. Any one ripping out the foam thinks the stuff is carp because it was wet......however they never stop to think that the reason it was wet is because for years it was working properly and probably saved there lives several times over !

In the Hull Extension thread, there is a way to foam a boat with out worry of water logging. The procedure will also alert you to any hull breach.

as far as those holes. Place a Piece of duct tape on the out side of the hull over the breach......then glass a sandwich of 4 alternating CSM/1708 over the area.....this can be glassed all at once, but dont go over the 4 layers without stopping for a while, or the resin will get too hot while curing, and become brittle.


a few pics of my progress...this transom section is taking quite a bit of time...
View attachment 125720View attachment 125721

more to come...

Any other questions.....just pm me again, as the forums are really busy right now......so i cant get to all the posts.

cheers. and Merry Christmas.
oops !
 

enforce

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Re: 1986 MonArk Rebuild / Restoration Continued

Re: 1986 MonArk Rebuild / Restoration Continued

wow...wow...wow...great insight, advise and information...much appreciated!

keep in mind...I do realize that I am jumping way ahead of myself with these questions, but I have so much time to think and plan while I am in this demolition stage...I'm sure you know...

anyway, I am going to to respond to your response...

i am intending to pour foam for sure...any recommendations?

cap edge - why so difficult to re-install the cap with a new and improved cap edge? is it the new found rigidity along the edge? the actual size of the hull perimeter / edge does not increase...does it? I would think the only reason it may be difficult is because of the stiffer edge...correct?

new fuel tank - still thinking about this

Hull Interior Wrap - a lot to think about regarding types of glass and how many layers, etc...but one thing you did say that really caught my attention was..."the wraps should come up to the deck line......then the tabbing of the deck will continue another 6 inches up the hull." I was planning to wrap the entire interior of the hull...from cap edge down to the keel...is this OK to do? will this make the hull too rigid and reduce hull flexibility? let me know your thoughts...and if it is OK to do...is there an overkill point regarding how many layers and what type of glass to use?

Hull Ribs / Mock Stringers - unfortunately, i think they will all have to be removed and replaced...from stem to stern...any suggestions on what type of wood to use?

then i have another dilemma that i came across...it's a bit difficult to explain...i'll do my best and use some pics to help...

between the first and second rib (from each side of the hull walls) is an indentation in the actual hull / under all the layers of glass, that runs the entire length of the hull, from transom to bow...i uncovered only a small portion of this at the transom wall, it is actually filled with foam...and it's soaking wet...should i cut / grind and uncover the entire length of this, clean it out and replace the foam? (see pics)
01aa.jpg
IMG_3847aa.jpg
 
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oops!

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Re: 1986 MonArk Rebuild / Restoration Continued

Re: 1986 MonArk Rebuild / Restoration Continued

wow...wow...wow...great insight, advise and information...much appreciated!

keep in mind...I do realize that I am jumping way ahead of myself with these questions, but I have so much time to think and plan while I am in this demolition stage...I'm sure you know...

anyway, I am going to to respond to your response...

i am intending to pour foam for sure...any recommendations?

cap edge - why so difficult to re-install the cap with a new and improved cap edge? is it the new found rigidity along the edge? the actual size of the hull perimeter / edge does not increase...does it? I would think the only reason it may be difficult is because of the stiffer edge...correct?

yep....this is correct....the edge will be stiffer making cap replacement very difficult. and ...it is way over building

new fuel tank - still thinking about this

Hull Interior Wrap - a lot to think about regarding types of glass and how many layers, etc...but one thing you did say that really caught my attention was..."the wraps should come up to the deck line......then the tabbing of the deck will continue another 6 inches up the hull." I was planning to wrap the entire interior of the hull...from cap edge down to the keel...is this OK to do? will this make the hull too rigid and reduce hull flexibility? let me know your thoughts...and if it is OK to do...is there an overkill point regarding how many layers and what type of glass to use?

over kill is a really easy thing to do in home boat building....but we allways have to remember...the hull did its job just fine for the 20 years before we get our hands on it..it even worked when it was rotten to the core !
so adding a few thousand layers of glass serves no real purpose except to add weight to the boa,t but few layers for good measure is fine.....
remember...when you tab your stringers.....you will be adding a layer or two of 1708 over top of the hull......so if you add a full wrap of 1708 before you tab the stringers....that will be three layers of 1708 total....that is the thickness of a hull in the first place!...


Hull Ribs / Mock Stringers - unfortunately, i think they will all have to be removed and replaced...from stem to stern...any suggestions on what type of wood to use?

just plywood on edge...or even dimentional lumber....just glass it good.....it will be the glass that actually becomes the stringer

then i have another dilemma that i came across...it's a bit difficult to explain...i'll do my best and use some pics to help...

between the first and second rib (from each side of the hull walls) is an indentation in the actual hull / under all the layers of glass, that runs the entire length of the hull, from transom to bow...i uncovered only a small portion of this at the transom wall, it is actually filled with foam...and it's soaking wet...should i cut / grind and uncover the entire length of this, clean it out and replace the foam? (see pics)
View attachment 125808
View attachment 125809

those are the strakes....they added the foam to them for anti cruush stregnth.....then shot glass over them.....i would take the foam out.....and fill with what ever you wish. wood...foam....a lot of boats have the strakes un filled
 

enforce

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Re: 1986 MonArk Rebuild / Restoration Continued

Re: 1986 MonArk Rebuild / Restoration Continued

many thanks again!

i wasn't really sure how to fill the strakes, since they are covered only with glass, not enclosed in wood...i will think about it a bit, i still have a lot of time...

my general plan was to gut the hull, clean it up/out, do measurements, make templates with foam board and then wait until the spring to actually do any purchasing/cutting/glassing, etc...i was planning to spend the winter dis-assembling the entire engine, taking the parts to a few mechanic friends of mine and getting their opinions on what was good and what needs replacement...

HOWEVER...

i met with a buddy of mine yesterday, we began talking engine stuff and he dropped a bombshell on me...he informed me that New York state just passed a law...outlawing 2 stroke engines on all fresh water lakes...he said if your engine is not already registered, you can not register older 2 strokes...only 4 stroke engines will be allowed...IS THIS TRUE? if this is the case, i will probably start selling my engine parts since I plan to use this boat on Lake George only...

any insight would be much appreciated...
 
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