1982 Glastron Hpv165 bass boat restoration.

[maryhannaj]

Re: 1982 Glastron Hpv165 bass boat restoration.

Thanks jbcurt00. I appreciste the comp. It is a PITA. I don't think it would be so bad if there was a comfortable way to position myself while grinding it. I am fortunate that it's the colder season for the purpose of being siuted up though. That's a good thing I suppose.

Yes, he did post at list. Thanks again WOG. My questions about the materials were more about the specifics I guess. I didn't know that there were different variations of the materials.
I'm going to use the vinyle ester for the transom and the 435 for the rest. I just can't see how the suggested amount of 1708 is going to be enough when I intend to glass in the entire hull. It was just listed as a rough starting point though.

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: 1982 Glastron Hpv165 bass boat restoration.

You're right! My list was a Guess-Ti-Mate based on a 16' hull with a standard 4 stringer layout doing just the stringers, deck and transom. If you do more then you'll need more materials. In your case you'll prolly need about 5 more yards of the 50" 1708 fabric.

It's hard to estimate the amount of resin someone will need cuz most people use way to much resin in their layups. This chart is a good one to tell you how much is needed.

MATERIAL.........................................GALLONS 1.5 OZ (CSM) Chopped Strand Mat = 1 gallon covers 4.2 square yds Here is a helpful table for cloth: There are about 150 ounces per gallon by weight 1.5 ounce cloth ( cloth not chopped strand mat)….1 gallon wets out 40 square yards 2.5 ounce cloth….1 gallon wets out 25 square yards 4 ounce cloth……1 gallon wets out 15 square yards 6 ounce cloth……1 gallon wets out 10 square yards 10 ounce cloth…..1 gallon wets out 6.5 square yards 18 ounce woven roving …1 gallon wets out 4.5 square yards 24 ounce woven roving …1 gallon wets out 3.5 square yards. 1708 Biaxial mat .………….. 1 gallon wets out 4 square yards Please remember several things: - these are estimates not hard and fast rules. - if you are laminating over wood, You should ALWAYS Pre-Coat the wood with resin prior to laying the first layer of CSM. - You Should always lay a layer of CSM prior to applying a layer of Woven Roving cloth or any cloth that does not have mat sewn to it. - a 1% to 2% MEKP catalyst ratio is the preferred ratio when mixing your resin for applying the laminate - It's easier to add more resin than to remove it. - thin resin goes farther than thick resin.

 

[maryhannaj]

Re: 1982 Glastron Hpv165 bass boat restoration.

Thanks for the chart. Here's one. What is the opinion on using the 700 vinyl ester for the whole build up? I plan to use it for the transom build up and I dont know how many layers of 1708 and csm are required on the inside, plus I have to build a new entire outside of the transom as well. Will vinyl ester and poly even adhere to each other?
I tried my hardest to figure out the amount of resin soak with 3 layers of 1708 on both the inside and outside and either 2 or 3 layers of csm on the inside(?). The usage of resin I came up with was just over 1 gallon if I even came close to figuring it right(?).

I got a quote from USC today on 10 gallons of 435 and 2 gallons of vinyl ester. Ordering just the 2 gallons of vinyl ester came to $90. When ordering 5 gallons was around $180. Plus for some reason there was no hazmat fee attached to the vinyl ester but there were 2 hazmat fees attached to the 5 gallon buckets of polyester. 1 charge for each container. Each 5 gallons of 435 equaling $150 each. Is the vinyl ester not a hazardous material or did they just make a mistake on the quote?

Does anyone know the name of a fiberglass distributor closer to Utah than USC? I ask because of the shipping charges. My quote for 30 yds of 1708, 20 yds of csm, 10 gl of poly, 2 gl of vinyl ester, 4 gl of cabosil and 1 lb of chopped strand from Florida to here was $221. I would like to try and get a better price on shipping if possible. Thanks all!

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: 1982 Glastron Hpv165 bass boat restoration.

Page 7 nov 22 I posted a link to a supplier that was closer to you

 

[maryhannaj]

Re: 1982 Glastron Hpv165 bass boat restoration.

Ok. Thanks woodonglass.

 

[maryhannaj]

Re: 1982 Glastron Hpv165 bass boat restoration.

I wish I would have remembered that before I asked. Looks good. I guess I'll just go with their equivalent to the standard boat resin. No vinyl ester.

 

[GT1000000]

Re: 1982 Glastron Hpv165 bass boat restoration.

Merry Christmas!

 

[maryhannaj]

Re: 1982 Glastron Hpv165 bass boat restoration.

Thanks GT1M! Merry Christmas to you too! I hope you had a great day.

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: 1982 Glastron Hpv165 bass boat restoration.

When the substrate is prepped properly and the resin and glass is applied properly polyester resin and glass will yield a very strong structure. Your boat was originally made from it and you will probably do a better job with the glass work. I wouldn't worry about using vinylester. Concentrate on doing a good job with the poly and you'll get a great product.

 

[maryhannaj]

Re: 1982 Glastron Hpv165 bass boat restoration.

Thanks for that woodonglass. I got a quote back from that fiberglass supply that you refered me to on the west coast. Here's a list of quoted items.

30 yards of 50 inch 1708
20 yards of 50 inch 1.5 oz CSM
10 gallons of their general purpose marine grade epoxy
2 lbs of cabosil(they didn't sell buy gallons)
1 quart MEKP
1 three inch bubble roller
1 six inch bubble roller
1 three inch radius roller
1 six inch bristle roller with 1 refill
1 catalyst dispenser

And I forgot to have them quote the 1/4 inch chopped strand.

USC quoted nearly the same dollar amount for everything minus the rollers but add 2 gallons of the stronger vinyl ester. I'm still not sure which route to go but I will be placing my order next week because I'm finally almost finished grinding, I hope.
I have a lot of patched over damage in the transom area that will have to be built back up and filled. I know now why there was so much build up. There was at least 1 1/2 of PB build up underneath 2 layers of the thick roven glass, with glass filler in between each of them just underneath of the wooden transom structure tapering 10 to 12 inches forward. There are 2 holes completely through the bottom of the hull. One directly beneath where the new transom will go.
I have a plan to build the glass back up without caking in the layers of filling material. Should I still use the 1708 in layers to reconstruct the outer skin of the transom or use a different type of glass without the mat? If so, I need to include them in the material order.
Can anyone tell me how many layers of glass the new outer transom skin should be constucted with? And also, how many layers of 1708 and CSM will suffice on the new transom inner skin?
I beleive that under the circumstances, I will need to build up a substantial forward tapering area underneath of where the new transom board will go before the board is shaped to spot and installed.
Either way, the heavy grinding is finished. Now I just have to rough out the spots that there wasn't any structure built in. I will then fill some water intakes with filler enough to glass over them, wipe down, clean up and start building.

I know I will have to order some more materials along the way, but I think this will be enough to get me started. Thanks all!

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: 1982 Glastron Hpv165 bass boat restoration.

Follow WOG's graphic for the inner transom skin. It will be sufficient.

For the exterior, you need to use enough alternating layers of CSM & 1708 to match the thickness of the original fiberglass. Which you need to grind to a taper as shown earlier (again a WOG graphic, may have been GTM) so that each layer of new glass covers a little more of the taper. I seem to remember WOG posting a layup schedule that has each combined layer of CSM/1708 wetted out w/ the correct amount of resin is about 3/32"+/-. Your transom skin is probably 1/4"+/-, before gelcoat. So based on the double tapered graphic posted earlier, you'll probably have layer of each CSM & 1708 on each side of that taper, and may need 1 more layer of 1, the other, or both to bring the repair out to just short of the finished glass surface. Given that the transom hack out was done so poorly previously, I'd probably do a final layer of 1708 finishing w/ CSM over the entire transom.

You want to make sure you don't make the transom so thick that your OB can't slide over & clamp onto it..

I wouldn't mix vinyl & poly resins. If you buy X gals of vinyl, you may need more or you may need less. It's more expensive. Unless you plan to allow all this god forsaken work to be neglected & poorly maintained, poly will suffice.

I understand it is more water & chemical resistant, bonds to old glass better, and is often THE choice for rehab work.

I again think you are overthinking this process. You've got LOTS of info floating around in here, you've spent LOTS of time w/ this info & the boat. Pick a material order date, and re-read your thread before that date. If you are still unsure of what needs to be done or how to do it, ask BEFORE that date. When that date arrives, order your supplies & materials. While waiting for them to arrive, prep an area to be your glassing work station. Trooper82 made a nice table w/ a roller setup for the glass at the end.

 

[maryhannaj]

Re: 1982 Glastron Hpv165 bass boat restoration.

The reason I'm over thinking it is because there is so much prior damage and the outer transom skin was hacked out nearly right on the middle of the 45 degree turn. This hack job left me no place for a scarf grind.
I have searched everywhere I can think of for a repair on something like this with no luck.
I have found a lot of info on replacing the transom skin on a boat with a straight stern area and I'm very comfortable with that type of repair. However, this repair is not what seems to be a typical one. My thoughts about the materials were that I may need something different for this repair.
My goal here isn't to inconvenience anyone by asking what may seem to be stupid questions, or to turn this into some type of nuclear science. I simply just don't want to spend money on the wrong materials.

 

[bajaunderground]

Re: 1982 Glastron Hpv165 bass boat restoration.

itch, itch, itch...scratch, scratch, scratch...

Looking good mhj! Before you know it, you'll be putting her back together!

~bRett

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: 1982 Glastron Hpv165 bass boat restoration.

My goal here isn't to inconvenience anyone by asking what may seem to be stupid questions, or to turn this into some type of nuclear science. I simply just don't want to spend money on the wrong materials.

It's not in inconvenience, and they aren't stupid questions.

No one wants to spend money needlessly, or waste materials.

Lots of what gets done here & is documented on other sites, hasn't been done before, not exactly. The process & materials are the same, the methods are similar but there may not be any similarly bad prior restos on another boat.........

You'll be grinding the BOTTOM of the hull and wrapping the glass on to it. Which I think I mentioned earlier about having to make sure you do a nice fairing taper to keep from putting a hump or a hook in the hull.

That's another reason I mentioned taking a break & reviewing your thread. Using it as a resource is one of the reasons I encourage people to keep resto questions in their resto thread. That way when you review it's ALL here. And for someone following behind doing similar work, there aren't any gaps in the flow of what's been done.

Unfortunately, most of us aren't glassing professionals that have seen & done 99% of any repair types that might be encountered. A bunch of this will HAVE to be dive in & give it a go. As long as the hull is well supported and you take your time, any 'mistake' or fiberglass error can be undone and reground.

It isn't a great solution, but you have to believe you can do this work. And don't forget, for the most part, NONE of us had done this before.

 

[Daniel1947]

Re: 1982 Glastron Hpv165 bass boat restoration.

My stupid question....your projected list of supplies that you plan to order says, "10 gallons of their general purpose marine grade epoxy." Are you mixing the terms "epoxy" and "poly resin?" Or are you planning on using epoxy instead of polyester resin? Just don't want you ordering the wrong stuff brother. LOL.

 

[maryhannaj]

Re: 1982 Glastron Hpv165 bass boat restoration.

It's good to hear from all of you guys. Thanks.

Hey bajaundergroud. Yes siree itch and scratch. I tape off like I'm trying to avoid a chemical attack and a bit of that stuff will still find its way up my dang pantlegs. I hope I'll be able to start putting her back together in the next few weeks. With a few of the procesesses I'm faced with using, it's just gonna take a bit longer than I would like. Thanks man.

Hey jbcurt00. I remember you telling me about glassing the underside and how it is a very touchy process in avoiding the hook in the hull. I was really worried about that one. Here's what I found out this afternoon from my friend who does the high end aircraft composite work for a living.
There is a process that is used to wrap new material around surfaces just like on the bottom of a hull up to the transom. Maybe you are or aren't familiar with it. It is a step-up type process. You basically grind the glass out in a step configuration. You create the steps to be the measured depth of the thickness of one layer of layed up glass. You then build each layer of glass back up to fit the step it is large enough to fill in. This way, when you reach the lay-up at the final surface area, it is still flush with the original surface but also strong as if it were scarfed in with a taper grind. Very important to aircraft when keeping a certain type of surface for air flow.
He said it will take some very precise measurement and is very time consuming, but is completely doable and the best way to avoid having to build up glass above the original surface and working the hook out of the hull that it can create.
As for the transom skin. It was suggested that the skin be molded to the new transom before being installed rather than after as a solid peice after it is cut to fit. Once this transom and skin type of assembly is installed, the same step-up method could then be used for re-creating a strong new 45 degree angle blending back into, and attaching to hull to the new transom and skin. This would be after it is all re-attached and glassed in from the inside. Then the stringers and everything else could just be matched up and glassed to the new transom and skin assembly, per say.
Now after saying all of that, do the wood surfaces of the stringers have to mate up to the wood surface of the transom? If so, there will have to be spots left unglassed on the inner transom. Thanks man.

Daniel1947. I am refering to polyester. In the terms of what they are considering to be their best product for boat hull build and repair. 10 gallons to start with. Here's a question for you. Have you decided to start on yours yet?

Hey all. Here's another one I learned today. Just for anyone who may be interested. I was told that for whatever reason, fiberglass grinding dust is also a great thickener for making filling material. And very strong also. Just thought I would throw that out there.
Thanks again to everyone.

 

[jc55]

Re: 1982 Glastron Hpv165 bass boat restoration.

I'm kind of following you on the step pattern. That might actually be a great process when you have a hole in the side of the boat, or you are repairing a deep ding. I never really got the technique of 12/1 scarfing then just laying up and hopefully having enough room for gelcoat. That step method could be achieved with a ...

and a green 80 grit pad.

I'm def gonna use that technique on exterior repairs. My only question is if steps would cause more of a stress point than that of a taper?

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: 1982 Glastron Hpv165 bass boat restoration.

Not sure who told you that Grinding Dust was a Great thickening agent for filler material but that simply is NOT TRUE! It will have left over traces of MEKP in it, it will have various contaminates in it that can and will affect the overall strength of the overall mix. It's been talked about many times on this forum and is the general recommendation of the Pro's and Experts here that it should NOT be used. Cabosil is VERY inexpensive and should always be used to keep the mix pure and to ensure a good strong mix. The Strength of your transom comes from the tabbing and laminations to the interior of the hull. We spoke in length about how to grind and fabricate the outer skin of the transom to ensure proper strength and bonding. IMHO you need to fabricate the wooden core of the transom, dry fit it, grind all of the surrounding areas and cover the back of the transom wood with plastic, clamp it in place and then begin laminating the exterior skin. Posting Pics as you go we can then offer advice, if needed, and you will learn as you go. By the time it's done you will have gained a lot of experience and knowledge that will give you a great deal of confidence going foreward with the rest of your restoration.

 

[maryhannaj]

Re: 1982 Glastron Hpv165 bass boat restoration.

Hey jc. I dont know about the stress point question. I just new before thag aircraft sheet metal repair uses the same method for filling holes. I learned today that the same repair is used for some types of aircraft composites. Aircraft undergo some pretty extreme stress and temperature changes so I'm thinking that is is fairly strong. I guess I'll find out just how much while workink the bottom area or the hull.
And yes. I agree with you on the mall sander as being a great tool for that type of stepped repair.

Ok woodonglass. I'll go with you on that cabosil. It is very inexpenive and will definatly have the same chemicals out of it as there were going into it. As for the transom skin lay-up. Yes you have discussed with me in great detail on how to grind the outer edges of the transom for the purpose of creating a new skin with the transom as an inner mold. Although, I didn't know that I was succesfully getting across the point that it is not a flat surface I am working with. I apologize if you were aware that the outer skin is cut off at the intersecting point of the 45 angle. It was also brought to my attention that just trying to bond the new section of transom skin to the old section at the same intersecting point would create a weak joint, so to speak. Without having any material on the same angle of surface as the new transom skin will exist to grind any type of scarf joint into is what is causing my confusion. I also agree that using the the transom clamped into place and seperated with wax, plastic or some other type of non-adhesive material, exactly what was expained to me, is a great way to go. But it will still need to be successfully bonded to a cornering angle.
Here are a few more better pics of what I am talking about just in case I am unable to explain it. And again, sorry if you already knew what I am talking about. I'm not trying to insult anyones intelligence or level of experience. It just isn't easy to explain some stuff by text.

 

[maryhannaj]

Re: 1982 Glastron Hpv165 bass boat restoration.

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