1981 Citation Marquis restoration...

[Luposian]

Well, I just learned a new boat term! BOOT STRIPE! Aaaand, I now know what that black line on my boat is! Yay, me!

 

[Luposian]

1 year and 5 months later... I'm kinda getting back into the mood to work on my boat again. But I'm horribly bothered by the way the foam was applied under the bow. I'm trying to understand WHY it was done the way it was. Even sloppy work is done that way, for a reason. May not be a good reason, but there is a reason. I shouldn't care, but I do. I want to know why it's there, and why it was applied the way it was.

For example, if you look at the prior pics, they foamed under the gunwale on the port side, but only so far (not all the way to the stern). Any idea why? They applied a thin layer of foam (it has black splatching on it) to the starboard side of the steps, but not the port side. If the foam was meant as sound/vibration dampening, why one side and not the other?

As it is, the foam is definitely "gone" (failing; useless, I assume), as I can rub it and it just comes off on my hand as yellowish powder. It looks and feels a lot like the foam you use the fills cracks in your house with. Does closed-cell flotation foam degrade like that? It's yellow and old looking/feeling (crumbly).

 

[Scott Danforth]

They foamed the cap when it's upsidedown

They did the absolute minimum amount of work at the factory to get foam in the boat to meet IMO/USCG requirements for emergency flotation at the time of manufacturer

The boat was originally designed to last 15 years

Yes, the over time the flotation foam will deteriorate.

 

[Luposian]

They foamed the cap when it's upsidedown

They did the absolute minimum amount of work at the factory to get foam in the boat to meet IMO/USCG requirements for emergency flotation at the time of manufacturer

The boat was originally designed to last 15 years

Yes, the over time the flotation foam will deteriorate.

So, what I should do is get the cap off the hull (well, get it on the ground, since it's already separated), chip/chunk/cut out all the old foam and basically refoam it? Or could a different type of flotation be considered, like capped 20oz/2ltr bottles and foam those into place? Should I do more than they did (apply flotation/foam in more places) or keep it basically about the same? The loops to support the wiring and steering cable (on the starboard side) are nothing more than sections of cardboard tube! Seriously! Just held in with a little resined fiberglass strip. I'm thinking maybe similar sized pieces of PVC held in with resined fiberglass strip would be much longer lasting and better? Or maybe longer sections of PVC tube (a couple inches long)? Wouldn't be wise to make a complete wiring conduit out of PVC, would it?

Gonna also redo a lot (or all) of the cleats, rails, etc. as they're just screwed in with sheet metal screws or similar course threaded screws. Some are machine screws, but have no backing support (washers or metal plate), so it wouldn't take a whole lot to rip them out.

 

[Scott Danforth]

Yes on the foam. You won't be owning the boat 45 years from now

Resin will come loose from the PVC, use fiberglass tube, or duplicate what was there

There may be aluminum plates in the laminate schedule where the cleats are

 

[Luposian]

Yes on the foam. You won't be owning the boat 45 years from now

Resin will come loose from the PVC, use fiberglass tube, or duplicate what was there

There may be aluminum plates in the laminate schedule where the cleats are

So just refoam or my other flotation idea + foam?

I've looked underneath the cleats and they're just coarse-threaded metal screws through the fiberglass... no aluminum (laminate schedule? What is that?).

 

[cyclops222]

You have not looked at modern boat screws at a dealer.
Shiny SHEETMETAL screws. Some in stripped out holes.
YEEEHAWWW
Buy a brand new boat. With rejects included. Free of additional charges.

 

[Scott Danforth]

So just refoam or my other flotation idea + foam?

I've looked underneath the cleats and they're just coarse-threaded metal screws through the fiberglass... no aluminum (laminate schedule? What is that?).

Inside the layers of FRP (the laminate schedule), where the cleats are, will most likely be 3/16" (5mm) thick aluminum plates

It's been common reinforcement practice for about 70 years

Easy to tell, just lightly drill up from the back side, between the cleat mounting holes.

 

[cyclops222]

I had to add large enough Backer Plates on some cleats. Much larger on all that have dock or towing lines.

 

[todhunter]

I would not do the bottle/foam idea - just go back with regular foam. In case you or a loved one in the future decide to sell the boat. If I was buying a boat and saw a bunch of 20oz bottles foamed under the deck, I'd walk away. Honestly, glass laid over thin carboard tube isn't a bad idea - the cardboard tube is just there to hold the shape until the resin hardens. Personally, I'd probably put packing tape over the carboard tube so that after the resin hardens, you can pull the cardboard tube out and be left with a fiberglass-only tube.

I wouldn't do a long single tube for the wiring and control / steering cables. My boat has short (~4" diameter, ~6" long) tubes about every 2 ft under the gunwale to feed things through. Once you get all your wiring and control cables in place, you can zip tie everything together between the tubes to prevent wires from sagging down into view.

 

[Luposian]

I would not do the bottle/foam idea - just go back with regular foam. In case you or a loved one in the future decide to sell the boat. If I was buying a boat and saw a bunch of 20oz bottles foamed under the deck, I'd walk away. Honestly, glass laid over thin carboard tube isn't a bad idea - the cardboard tube is just there to hold the shape until the resin hardens. Personally, I'd probably put packing tape over the cardboard tube so that after the resin hardens, you can pull the cardboard tube out and be left with a fiberglass-only tube.

I wouldn't do a long single tube for the wiring and control / steering cables. My boat has short (~4" diameter, ~6" long) tubes about every 2 ft under the gunwale to feed things through. Once you get all your wiring and control cables in place, you can zip tie everything together between the tubes to prevent wires from sagging down into view.

If I go the plastic bottles+foam route, I do NOT plan to have the bottles visible (that would be so redneck)! All you'd see is the foam. But I'm assuming a bottle of air is more buoyant than plain foam, so you get more buoyancy, overall, combining the two. The chemicals in foam don't dissolve plastic, do they? If the bottles were compromised, then you're left with LESS buoyancy than if you used 100% foam, as the air pocket (compromised bottle) could hold water, once it got past the surrounding foam.

The interesting thing is, the cardboard tube sections are about 1" thick and they are completely untreated... just plain cardboard, held in with a thin strip of resined fiberglass! That's all! Absolutely bare minimum effort. I ended up breaking all of them, as I was gutting the boat years ago (2019), trying to pull all the wires and steering out. But, no matter... it's all gonna be redone a LOT better!

 

[Luposian]

More work! All by myself, I managed to get the cap off my hull! And, then, off comes more hardware.