1981 15' SeaSquirt Project

[ezmobee]

Re: 1981 15' SeaSquirt Project

That Evinrude may be an electric shift which isn't particularly desirable. If you already had it with the boat, I'd certainly try to get it running but I don't know that I'd buy it.

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: 1981 15' SeaSquirt Project

Isn't there a motor in 1 of your pix. I thought it was..... Ez's right. But be wary, he may try & talk you into a tinny.:facepalm:

'Try it, you might like it', he & his minions will say. I did, & apparently I do, despite a vast collection of proof of the contrary....
Me on SC tin:

 

[motochris]

Re: 1981 15' SeaSquirt Project

Tonight we started to remove some foam from a hole that was cut in the deck to fix the keel a long time ago. The foam was completely soaked. We removed almost 50lbs in that small section. I am now at a point where I am not sure what the best way to continue is? With this type of hull construction it doesn't seem much water can get to the drain holes in the transom? I attached some new pics and a vid.

Gage pulling foam

Under the rub rail 1

4

I had my son put a light in the deck hole, you can clearly see where the leak is

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: 1981 15' SeaSquirt Project

I can't get the video to load, so I'll start here:

From the area you cleared what is probably close to 50lbs of wet foam, It appears to be very similar to the whaler photo I posted. The closer shots of the rubrail lip, make me lean that way too.

Does there seem to be a delineation in the foam? From the PO's poor repair & coverup w/ ply, is there any possibility that the foam was removed & replaced at or about the time of the ply coverup? If so it would have a different density, color & texture then the factory foam. It might have been the wrong type of foam (open cell ~ great stuff, instead of closed cell like was probably used by the factory , and is the pour in foam GT1M mentioned), and the remaining foam could be less compromised then what you removed tonight. It is somewhat unlikely however, and until you can brake the bond with the foam, it will be challenging at best to get the deck liner removed.

If you shot some pix of the transom corners & etc I asked about before, we can address that all later, as you've already said that there is wood in the transom & it's compromised.

Going to catch video now....

 

[motochris]

Re: 1981 15' SeaSquirt Project

More rub rail photos

 

[motochris]

Re: 1981 15' SeaSquirt Project

Transom photos

drain hole with rotten wood

more cracking

top of transom

Light

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: 1981 15' SeaSquirt Project

From your video, I will give you my best guesses about some of the things you mentioned in the video:

• Think of the deck liner as a sandwich that was constructed prior to being adhered to the hull & foam filled. It had a sheet of foam like material (rigid enough & lighter then wood) that was fiberglassed on both sides during it's transformation into your boats deck liner. Into that foam, areas of ply wood were added and let in as backers used to attach things like the center console to the deck at a later point during construction. If you look inside the console I suspect there is similar pc of ply backer for the instruments, steering wheel & throttle assemble to screw too.
• Based on finding epoxy or poly repair evidence below the foam you removed, it was in fact foam filled when it was 'repaired' by the PO.
• Seeing the significant amount of water that was bleeding out of the foam while you were digging at it with both the ice scoop & tri-fork garden rake (both good choices for what is an exceptionally NO fun part of the process, its only slightly more fun then grinding glass) I would suspect that the foam below deck is 100% compromised. It needs to come out, and be replaced w/ pour in foam. I won't be using it, so you need to get guidance from the vendor & other iBoaters.
• I do not know the hydrostatic properties of the foam used to construct your boat. It may or may not act as a wick, drawing water in at the keel damage, and traveling along & THROUGH the remaining areas of foam. Not unlike how a single pc of string draped into a glass of water & hung over the edge of the table will eventually draw the volume of water down & out of the glass. But normally, once compromised, the foam is no longer useful, is in fact harmful (weight & rot of wood in contact w/ the foam), and needs to be removed. It may or may not have been drawn up & into the foam behind the the gunnel side walls of the boat. This is in part why I suggested the photo into the starboard stern gunnel inspection cover. To check if the walls were also foam filled. That may be checkable with the knock test you were using in the 1st video checking the hull bottom. If the wall sounds hollow, it may in fact be hollow.

Depending on some of these ^^ concerns & details, someone may be able to suggest a best course of action. I unfortunately will be of little further help to diagnosis your hull situation, and form a game plan for repair & return to seaworthiness. When some of those items are cleared up, I can certainly help get the work as described completed and help w/ the put back & rebuild. I wish I had better info & news, but the details that make these such great, unsinkable boats, also makes it harder to rehab.

JC

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: 1981 15' SeaSquirt Project

From your last photo it looks like the side walls under the gunnel is also foam filled.

The cracking at the transom is most likely from either backing the boat/outboard into something while on the trailer, insufficient support of the outboard while trailering, repeatedly slamming the boat through rough seas which causes the same torque to the transom as insufficient outboard support while trailering, or overpowering the hull w/ too large (heavy & power) an outboard.

And as expected, the additional photos of the rubrail lip appears to confirm the deck liner, hull construction.

I will check back tomorrow (today) and I still hope there is a better qualified diagnostic & planning iBoater checking in w/ you soon.

 

[motochris]

Re: 1981 15' SeaSquirt Project

Thanks JC for your help so far. My son and I are determined to get this little boat seaworthy and are going to give it our best shot.

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: 1981 15' SeaSquirt Project

No problem. We've all been at the Oh Carp moment. Your's just presents problems I'm not equipped to answer. I bet theres a boston whaler forum out there somewhere. Maybe even on iBoats. I'd spend some time looking through that info. Maybe even join another forum. I have the same user name & FireFlite threads on 4places total. But the guys here are much more active by a HUGE margin & are much more helpful by the same margin!

If there is a way to fix this little squirt up & get your family out in it, these guys will help you get there!

If you still are unable to reach oops, surf over to his hull stretch thread, read through some of it, the 1st page has an index. And post a comment in his thread. Mention that your new to iBoats, he'll know because your join date & post # are right below your user name. That maybe enough to have him swing through. Ez posted here too, post #21 above. He maybe of assistance, but probably would have said more when he was here 1 of the 2 times through.

Patience
Patience
There are but a few Moderators & 25K of us to keep tabs on, and most have a day job or at least something else going on too

Jc

 

[GT1000000]

Re: 1981 15' SeaSquirt Project

OK MC, by the looks of what you have going on, my assessment from what I see on the video...

You are definitely in need of removing the deck and the foam...

Both should be replaced...

That being said...my next course of action would be to draw a guide line 4-6 inches in from the edge of where the deck meets the gunwhales, all the way around...

Set up a circular saw to cut just at the thickness of the deck, +/- 1/8 inch...and go to town...

You may need to make some relief cuts through the middle of the deck, to aid in removal...

Now you will be able to remove the deck and get at the foam...

You can use a regular hand saw to make several plunge cuts into the foam and use a crowbar or pry bar to remove big chunks of it...

Then the rest of the build can be addressed...

This is in no way meant to be the only or even 100% correct way of doing this, but my out loud thinking is...what would be MY next logical step IF iboats couldn't help me???

 

[Pmccraney]

Re: 1981 15' SeaSquirt Project

It seems you are at a very critical juncture... Now is the time to decide if you really want to do this. The boat obviously needs a full gut resto, which is complicated by its unique set-up and prior repairs you will have to undo/cure (that transom in particular).

No shame in either route at this point..... Heck, I dove in on a full gut resto and I am enjoying the challenge. Just make sure you this boat is the "right one" for you and your son so that you have a good experience....

I think this boat is going to present some unique challenges - as evidence by the fact that you have already stumped a few members of this forum who have seen literally thousands of boats getting torn apart. Not trying to be a "wet blanket" on the party; its just that 4 months of living in a cloud of toxic fiberglass dust has given me a deeper appreciation of how hard this is.

 

[ezmobee]

Re: 1981 15' SeaSquirt Project

I hate to say this but............In my opinion, once those little completely foam filled hulls get waterlogged, they're pretty well done for. I think you might end up with a ton of money into foam and fiberglass to get this thing fixed up and that's assuming you're able to carefully get it taken apart!

 

[motochris]

Re: 1981 15' SeaSquirt Project

Thanks GT, in all the searching on the web I have not found 1 post anywhere regarding taking the cap off a whaler or a whaler knock off. Seems like people will drill many holes in the keel and hull and let the water drain (for months even) then patch it up. I like the others on here also believe the current foam is completely compromised. It is a mushey mess and I think the current foam has lost 100% of its structural support and is a major liability now (lead sponge). Again there is a lot of good glass on the boat but the integrity of the structure is just not there anymore.

I also think cutting the floor out 4 inches from the side is a good solution 1. If I leave the cap on it the boat will retain its shape. I could then pull the floor and hack my way to the transom.

No for more advice on solution 1. If I pull the floor out that way and build a new deck, what would be the best possible way to join it to the 4" lip I left around the inner walls. How to I get the hull foam perfect? I cant just add foam and put the new neck on, it would not just go in there all lined up sitting at the right angle. would it make sense to fab some stringers and supports? I would then need to build a floor probably glass over plywood altering everything in the original design of this boat.

Solution 2 would be to get the cap off: Keep the sides intact as much as possible with the floor so I can beef the underside of the floor that way and it will drop back into the new foam filled hull. I feel like I can get the foam to separate from the deck and sides. Its just going to be a cage match.

Now the real question..... How long and how much money will this cost? If anyone finds any similar threads please post. This just goes to show that I should have done my homework before I picked it up. Right now I have about $40 in gas getting the boat, $300 for the boat and trailer. I could probably get $200 back for the trailer, so as it stands I am down $140 + 8 hours of work if I walk away now, (This could be much worse!). Maybe I shouldn't walk...I should RUN....

I WILL NEVER LOOK AT A BOSTON WHALER THE SAME WAY AGAIN!

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: 1981 15' SeaSquirt Project

The advice from Ez is what I feared, but until someone else said it, I don't know enough about them to be sure. I would start loooking for a different boat that is trailer-less or has a junk trailer. This actually looks like it's a fairly decent galv trailer. If you can keep it until you find a different rig & determine if it has a good or bad trailer.

Spending time with your son dismantling this boat will go a long way in teaching you how they are built & how to inspect the usual places for damage. That<<---- is worth a great deal.

Does your family like to container garden? I see the biggest raised flower/veggie garden in the neighborhood!

Pull the deck (100%, no 2"-4" lip) & inner transom skin & remove all the foam & wood mulch. Get all the sharp edges of 'glass ground down smooth so there is NO RISK of injury, drag it off the trailer and let your son & his friends go CRAZY w/ any of a: shark/pirate/Robinson Crusoe theme. W/ some painted 1/2" ply for a deck, and a transom. Supported as best you can or if it'll hold up w/ out the deck, leave it out. Transom skin should have a wood brace at least along the top edge. It will be easy to break &/or sharp. 'ONLY' until you get a different rig, then it gets sent to the great big deadend road for old glass boats. Bonus: it will already be partially dismantled, and some city garbage companies will take it in reasonable sized pcs on junk day.

If you have never done any glass work, this might offer you the chance to 'learn' on a boat that won't be dependent on the repairs in a structural way(esp the transom). To answer your question in your solution #1 above, the new deck would also be encased in poly & glass pre-install, and you would grind away along the bottom of the gunnel wall up 8"-12" so that once you laid the new deck, you could 'tab' it in w/ ever larger pcs of 'glass & poly. This would go along w/ the dismantle & learn about boat construction.

WoodOnGlass uses hull & deck 'glassing detail drawings, as referenced in his signature links, I thought I had them but I guess it's on my home computer.


Continued good luck, I may be absent for a few days, and look forward to seeing how this resolves for you. All is not lost if you learn something, spend time with your son, and now own a decent trailer.

JC

 

[idonthaveaname]

Re: 1981 15' SeaSquirt Project

motochris. I think what you are doing, especially combined as a father/son project is admirable. I also think you are going to spend a lot more money and time than you ever expected to on this project...and between the foam and fiberglass, it will be a mess. The truth is, it appears the boat will never be worth what you are going to have to put into it. Sorry for the downer. Personally, FWIW, I would scrap the project and look for a boat needing less work...at least you have the trailer. I venture to say you can find a decent vessel anywhere from $200 to $800 (w/motor). I know I can around these parts.

After I bought my boat--after I literally dug into it--and then dug a little more until all the wet foam was gone. After finding the rotted stringers and transom, I then wondered why I BOUGHT something that I probably could have found for free. Yes, it was that bad. There was nothing much more than the shell of the boat left and thankfully, no cracks or damage other than needing paint. My project (still happening) is a total tear down and strip of all wood and foam. I never dreamed it would be so much work. Once I finish all the internal things, the cosmetics will come and I might be able to get back on the water in about 3 to 6 months--of course, it's been 2 years so far. OR, I could scrap the whole thing and put my motor on something else provided by Craigslist for about $1000 and be done with it. I don't want to give up on the project for two reasons. One, I love to build things, so this is kinda fun at times. Two, quitting would allow my wife to point her finger and sat, "I told you so."

So the truth is, it's up to you. From reading the posts above regarding the foam and construction of the boat, it seems a mess to me and I would rather be fishing with my son than spending too much time in the garage. BUT if you decide to continue, you won't find a better place for support and instruction.

 

[Pmccraney]

Re: 1981 15' SeaSquirt Project

Ezmobee is a forum moderator and been around here a while.... I would take his advice to heart before diving into this rig... If you want to get on the water cheaply and quickly, this is definitely not the boat for you. If you want to do a project with your son, there are cheap hulls that are a dime a dozen that would probably be easier to restore. Heck, the metal boats are VERY popular on this site, because they are tough, easy to restore and far less dangerous in terms of fumes, dust, etc... If you really want your son involved, I would recommend finding a nice tinny with an outboard... I fear that the hard core fiberglass grinding and fumes might be a bit much for a 10 year old to really get involved with.

Plus, I have done a fair amount of fishing in a Boston Whaler... I know they have a cult following (and this may anger some folks), but my personal opinion is that these foam filled twinkies (while technically "un-sinkable" and having pretty classic lines) are a very rough ride... I know you probably won't be dealing with a lot of snotty water in the placid and serene lakes of beautiful colorado, but still something to consider in your overall analysis...

 

[ezmobee]

Re: 1981 15' SeaSquirt Project

This is a great example of a tinnie project that would be awesome for a father/son http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=455193

While I certainly believe a tinnie is the way to go, a fiberglass boat with a more standard build (wood deck, stringers, etc) and without a fully molded inner liner would also be a much more feasible rebuild project. This one http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=507523 shows that the sky's the limit for that type of boat as well.

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: 1981 15' SeaSquirt Project

This is a great example of a tinnie project: http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=455193

This one http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=507523 shows that the sky's the limit for that type of boat as well.

2 of my favorite builds & boats! Thanks EZ!

 

[motochris]

Re: 1981 15' SeaSquirt Project

Wow...The support here is unreal! Thanks All, I feel like I am not alone on this one!

This project is not dead yet. I really like this hull design, I like this layout. Again this is my preferred type of fishing boat. (I grew up on Cape Cod, so that should explain most of my boat quirkiness )

I also have a 15’ Aluminum canoe (smoker craft) with a newer 4HP motor on it that has been our goto Colorado fishing machine for the past few years, so we are not stuck to shore fishing and can easily get out and fish anytime.

At this point I have nothing to lose but time. I am also nervous about fumes, and all the mess that goes along with Fiberglass as pointed out. I already purchased suits and masks for my son and I as was expecting some fiberglass repairs from the beginning, but this has exponentially blown out my initial slam dunk repair thoughts. I am now in a conundrum, is it worth to fix this boat up? I do not think I can properly answer this question yet.

My gut tells me I need to pull the cap as carefully as possible. I need to really get to the full transom, and get the foam out and start over. Other BW forums I have been reading have talked about adding a few more rigid layers of fiberglass in the hull to add strength and using a good high density pourable foam. This is where the nightmare probably begins!

So unless someone comes back and has a good alternative plan. I think I will at least TRY and pull the cap. I am not going to give up just yet, this is still in the fun stage :facepalm:…