1979 22' Starcraft SuperSport V5 Restoration

jigngrub

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Re: 1979 22' Starcraft SuperSport V5 Restoration

It's out. I'll give an explanation later as to what I found. One step forward, three steps back...

I'll be interested to see that, I can't imagine what went wrong that you couldn't roll it back down.

Did you apply the adhesive to both the vinyl and deck, or just the deck? Applying adhesive to both surfaces makes for a much more secure bond.
 
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djpeters

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Re: 1979 22' Starcraft SuperSport V5 Restoration

Quick recap about this fiasco. Saturday I did the carpet onto the hull sides. Went beautifully, turned out great, could not be happier. Yesterday, tried the vinyl with the same glue. The vinyl has a felt backing and I did some tests to get the right amount of adhesive, not enough and the felt would soak it all up and the bond was not very good. With the right amount, when I pulled it up there would be adhesive on both halves.

So I troweled out half the deck, probably took 10-15 minutes, and laid half the vinyl, folded it over, troweled the other half and laid the rest. I was pretty careful to keep the adhesive even all over. I then had one of those vinyl flooring rollers that weighs at least 75lbs and rolled it in a bunch of different directions. All looked good. I then went and put all the trim down. All still looked good. A few hours later I noticed a couple small bubbles so I poked them with an awl and pushed them back down. This worried me a little. This morning I get up and check and theres a big bubble, and a few more smaller ones. Go to work and come home and they are still there along with some more up in the bow. I pulled of all the trim and started rolling. They would not roll out. They would not push. If I poked them I could get them back down kinda, but there was still a lot of waviness that wouldn't go away. It's like the vinyl was stretched and had developed a memory. Anyway, within a couple minutes they would pop right back up. Remember, the vinyl I was using was super thick (1/8") and kinda stiff.

When I peeled the vinyl up, most was stuck real good, the adhesive coverage was good and some parts the adhesive was stuck to the epoxied deck so good it ripped the felt off the vinyl. Other parts, the adhesive would reluctantly pull from the wood but it wasn't easy. Most of the adhesive was still gooey.

The areas under the bubbles, the adhesive was almost dry. There just wasn't enough stick in those spots to hold it down again. I think because of the bubble (and obviously the air) the adhesive dried a lot quicker there.

I have no idea why I got these random bubbles, some were on the edge, some were in the middle. Somehow air of gas or something was coming from somewhere and causing the bubbles. The big one in the pic posted earlier was twice that size when I got home tonight. It's crazy. I really have no good explanation of why this happened.
 

djpeters

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Re: 1979 22' Starcraft SuperSport V5 Restoration

Did you apply the adhesive to both the vinyl and deck, or just the deck? Applying adhesive to both surfaces makes for a much more secure bond.

I tested it, multiple times, and said multiple times how awesome this adhesive was. I have many samples that I can't hardly pull from the wood. But those are all small samples where the bubbles would not have shown up. In my tests, when the right amount was troweled down, the felt would soak up some, and leave enough to fully saturate the deck.

It's the #%^{# bubbles that screwed me!!!
 

Triton II

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Re: 1979 22' Starcraft SuperSport V5 Restoration

Maybe try a syringe full of adhesive from a small hole in the centre of the bubble, squirting towards the edges then roll it flat again, the air should come out of the small hole? Dunno if it'll work but maybe worth a shot?

TII
 

catfishr1

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Re: 1979 22' Starcraft SuperSport V5 Restoration

Dave; Really sorry about your vinyl problems. Was looking fabulous too. Definitely think you made right decision. Hope you get er figured out. Keep on trucking buddy.
 

ezmobee

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Re: 1979 22' Starcraft SuperSport V5 Restoration

I wonder if it could be the adhesive was too "gaseous" or something.
 

djpeters

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Re: 1979 22' Starcraft SuperSport V5 Restoration

I wonder if it could be the adhesive was too "gaseous" or something.

That's what I was thinking. With carpet it can off-gas through the carpet and maybe if I had a bare deck (no epoxy) it would breath in/through the wood? I guess I don't know.

Contact cement might have been the better way to go with my combination.
 
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duncan_the_red

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Re: 1979 22' Starcraft SuperSport V5 Restoration

The look with the vinyl and carpet was terrific. Sorry to see it didnt work as planned. I have been following along and wanted to go down the same route. Reading and learning .....
 

djpeters

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Re: 1979 22' Starcraft SuperSport V5 Restoration

Ok, the next million dollar question, since I'm going carpet on the deck, what color? Same as the sides (medium/dark grey) or a lighter grey like the vinyl was? The only place the two will meet is the space forward the side panel and behind the consoles, about 4' each side. I am NOT going to carpet any seat bases or the front bow seating. Carpet only on hull sides and deck. The rest will be red and white vinyl.
 

jasoutside

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Re: 1979 22' Starcraft SuperSport V5 Restoration

I think the same color as the hull sides for consistency. (I am kinda boring like that though)
 

jbcurt00

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Re: 1979 22' Starcraft SuperSport V5 Restoration

Yep ^^^

I really liked budski's 2-tone (of course online pix ARE different then seeing it live) but his rig looks so much better w/ the same carpet everywhere. Even if it's only 4' +/- along each side.
 

ezmobee

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Re: 1979 22' Starcraft SuperSport V5 Restoration

That's what I was thinking. With carpet it can off-gas through the carpet and maybe if I had a bare deck (no epoxy) it would breath in/through the wood? I guess I don't know.

Contact cement might have been the better way to go with my combination.

Not to be a poopy-head but I used the actual Nautolex adhesive over an epoxied deck, wasn't near as meticulous as you, and had no issues.

Go light on the floor carpet. It will show less dirt. I have navy in the Jupiter and it was a total nightmare. One step into the boat from the ground and it looked filthy. Go with something kinda the color of dirt.
 

jigngrub

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Re: 1979 22' Starcraft SuperSport V5 Restoration

That's what I was thinking. With carpet it can off-gas through the carpet and maybe if I had a bare deck (no epoxy) it would breath in/through the wood? I guess I don't know.

Contact cement might have been the better way to go with my combination.

I got the gaseous bubbles with the Nautolex 88 adhesive, and the directions even said it might happen but they'd go away. I didn't wait for them to go away on their own and rolled them out. When I started getting these bubbles is when I switched over to contact cement and didn't have any more problems... that's one of the reasons I recommended contact cement when you first started talking about installing vinyl on your project.

Another thing is I wrapped my pieces individually so if something went wrong it was just one piece and not the whole job so it would be a lot easier to fix the one thing than ripping out everything... and I can remove my decking in the future without destroying my nice vinyl finish. Just drill the heads off the rivets that're holding it down and lift the decking out, then lay it back in when I'm finished and install new rivets.
 

crkranz

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Re: 1979 22' Starcraft SuperSport V5 Restoration

that's one of the reasons I recommended contact cement when you first started talking about installing vinyl on your project.

How hard is it working with the contact cement? If the two surfaces touch is there any forgiveness? Seems scary to do anything other than small pieces.
 

djpeters

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Re: 1979 22' Starcraft SuperSport V5 Restoration

How hard is it working with the contact cement? If the two surfaces touch is there any forgiveness? Seems scary to do anything other than small pieces.

Yeah, if you use it the way the directions read, it's instantly stuck forever. It wasn't worth the risk to me...
 

djpeters

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Re: 1979 22' Starcraft SuperSport V5 Restoration

Just placed an order for more carpet and adhesive....
 

ezmobee

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Re: 1979 22' Starcraft SuperSport V5 Restoration

I got the gaseous bubbles with the Nautolex 88 adhesive, and the directions even said it might happen but they'd go away. I didn't wait for them to go away on their own and rolled them out.

I got some minor bubbles with the Nautolex adhesive also. Panicked me at first but they eventually laid down perfectly.
 

Weep'n Willy

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Re: 1979 22' Starcraft SuperSport V5 Restoration

I used the Weldwood contact cement to lay down my Nautolex. It was a 2 person job to complete. Rolled the adhesive on the floor and then the vinyl, let set for 15 min or so then rolled down the vinyl. I think it came out great, no bubbles, no problems. The key to using it was doing it in sections and made sure I had the vinyl laid in position ahead of time exactly where it would be then roll it aside. Yes, there was no give once the cement got tacky so where it laid is where it stayed.
 
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