1978 Glastron 175 HPV rebuild

[NWI Boater]

Hey guys,

I'm attaching a few pictures of a 1978 Glastron 175 HPV I picked up on the cheap. I love the lines of this boat and I knew going in it would probably be a top-off rebuild. You can see in one of the pictures that there has been significant stress put on the back of the boat and has resulted in a pretty big stress crack in the fiberglass. I'm also guessing the metal plate and top cap holding the motor are not original to the boat. Looking underneath, I cannot see any transom work done (original glass-in) which tells me nothing has ever been done to the transom. Can anyone tell me what that little jut out is in the one picture below the square metal "washer" holding the lower motor mount bolt? Anyone worked on these boats before that can let me know what I'm in for? I haven't opened up the floor, but I can guess there's a lot of work to be done.

Look forward to everyone's guidance. I've been watching some key threads here and love that everyone is so helpful to us newbies.

Thanks, guys.

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: 1978 Glastron 175 HPV rebuild

Welcome to iBoat's dry dock.

You'll need to be more specific then: Can anyone tell me what that little jut out is in the one picture below the square metal "washer" holding the lower motor mount bolt?

I'm not sure which jut out you're referring to. If you can open a free photobucket account it will let you post pix big like this:

Use MS Paint or other to circle the area of jut out, & repost the pix


Which makes it easier to see details in the pix, but more importantly you can quickly look at multiple pix & still have easy access to your questions.

The transom has cracked (failed) because of a totally rotten transom. The spray foam in the pix #1 far left, all the metal that's been added, the HUGE crack, and all that caulking along the back of the splashwell.

Read thru some resto threads, esp Don's helpful tips thread links. Look for oop's hull extension, WoodOnGlass's Blue Flamingo, and Friscoboater's threads & YouTube channel. All great resources.

The good news is you have correctly diagnosed the situation, it needs a full gut and rehab. Transom, deck (floor) and stringers will all need to be addressed, removed & replaced. Believe it or not, it could be worse & even if it were, the crew @iBoats will get you back in the water safely. It'll be a really nice rig when you finish.

 

[NWI Boater]

Re: 1978 Glastron 175 HPV rebuild

Thanks for the quick reply.

I've added that first pic again with the jut out highlighted. The transom would appear the be angled in this boat and not straight up and down. and that little jut point has me confused as to why it's there.

All those threads you mentioned are exactly the ones I've been following and have been a wealth of information so far.

Now, for a few simple, maybe stupid, newbie questions:

If I take off the rub rail separating the top and bottom, does that typically go back on the boat after rehab or do most people buy new?

Those two little angle rub rail pieces you see on the back of my boat where it cuts back in toward the splash well...Do you think those are original or added at come point? Can it be made cleaner with new pieces or will it simply look better with all the carp goop they put in to stop water infiltration?

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: 1978 Glastron 175 HPV rebuild

Thanks for the quick reply.

I've added that first pic again with the jut out highlighted. The transom would appear the be angled in this boat and not straight up and down. and that little jut point has me confused as to why it's there.

It
appears to be there to tie the port & starboard deck sides to each other in a different plane then the transom, and to add strength across the transom too. Think of it as a strut. Since I'm not an expert on boats, esp not specifically a 75 Glastron 175, that would be my best guess. It might just be there because of how they built your boat & they couldn't cut it any closer when they cut out the bilge (what I suspect is directly below your arrow's pointer)

Now, for a few simple, maybe stupid, newbie questions:

Nope, no dumb questions, except those that aren't asked

If I take off the rub rail separating the top and bottom, does that typically go back on the boat after rehab or do most people buy new?

Depending how it comes off & how careful you are, you might be able to reuse the metal rubrail portion. But the rubber/vinyl insert is probably no longer very pliable and may have shrunk after 37+/- years of sun. Be sure to keep some pieces of the inset, there are companies that may still sell it and if you send them a sample, they maybe able to match it for your. Google Taco Marine rubrail, They are 1 that will attempt to match.

Those two little angle rub rail pieces you see on the back of my boat where it cuts back in toward the splash well...Do you think those are original or added at come point? Can it be made cleaner with new pieces or will it simply look better with all the carp goop they put in to stop water infiltration?

I am guessing that the angle pieces of rubrail you're referring to are the flattend Z shaped pcs (double L, maybe?) that run back towards the transom. That may have been originally filled w/ a putty compound from the manufacturer, mine had quite a bit, but it was almost all below the rubrail, and unless you were in the water, you'd never notice. It compensates for the slight differences in how the fiberglass cap fit on the hull. The metal rubrail pcs will always be the same, and will always fit the same, but depending on a couple of variables, the cap & hull may have minor differences between boats. Esp since many hulls accept a few different style caps & interior layout. They made them separately, and stockpiled them during fabrication, then used them as needed to build a boat. The glass may go a tad out of shape while stored, when they assemble the hull & cap, or during the glassing of the interior deck & finishes. So a bit of filler is needed.

That area can all be addressed after you get to that point of the rehab. Just remember that there may need to be some glass filler work to be done after the cap is put back on.

Take a bunch of pix & take lots of measurements and use them for reference during the put back. Occasionally I was able to shoot a pix of an area of concern during demo that also had the tape measure dimensions visible in the pix kind of like this:

It looks like a lot of silicone/liq nail type stuff and that'll always be ugly & may not have long lasting stamina around the transom & motor. You'll want to do it better, and better looking. After looking again. it also looks like the previous owner may have done some bondo like work in those areas. The factory shouldn't have left it that uneven & pitted. But there very well may have been filler there originally.

You won't want to use Bondo, but that's for later. For now do some more reading & start taking pix & notes, and collect your protective gear. You'll want to wear it all during demo too.

Have a good 4th!

 

[NWI Boater]

Re: 1978 Glastron 175 HPV rebuild

It
appears to be there to tie the port & starboard deck sides to each other in a different plane then the transom, and to add strength across the transom too. Think of it as a strut.

That's what I was thinking as I was looking at it again today. I guess I won't know for sure until I get the motor off, the interior gutted and the top off.

Depending how it comes off & how careful you are, you might be able to reuse the metal rubrail portion. But the rubber/vinyl insert is probably no longer very pliable and may have shrunk after 37+/- years of sun. Be sure to keep some pieces of the inset, there are companies that may still sell it and if you send them a sample, they maybe able to match it for your.

Excellent info. Thinks!!

I am guessing that the angle pieces of rubrail you're referring to are the flattend Z shaped pcs (double L, maybe?) that run back towards the transom.

You are correct.

Take a bunch of pix & take lots of measurements and use them for reference during the put back. Occasionally I was able to shoot a pix of an area of concern during demo that also had the tape measure dimensions visible in the pix kind of like this:

Good tip. I believe in taking a lot of pictures, but hadn't really thought of including a tape measure for guidance.


Thanks for the great feedback. Eager to start ripping into this thing, but family time first today.

Happy 4th to you!!

 

[NWI Boater]

Re: 1978 Glastron 175 HPV rebuild

It's amazing what you start to uncover when you start taking a boat apart. Got the rub rail off today and it would appear that someone has split this boat before...who knows how long ago. When they did it last time, they did not seat the top fully down over the bottom. You can see in the attached photos that the right rear of the boat was a good inch from being properly seated so they simply covered it with Great Stuff and a really bad patch job. No wonder the weight of the motor created a stress crack. there was no overlap to keep it from pulling down the back of the boat. Luckily, it looks like there is no damage done that can't be fixed. Now I'm just hoping I can get the top seated over the lower section after I rebuild the transom. Any ideas how to get this thing back into the correct shape so it all fits? I'm hoping once I have it split, it will come together a little easier.

Also, it would appear that there is a wood runner inside the boat where the overlap is created so the screws through the rub rail will bite. The wood is not glassed. Is it normal to have that bite piece in there?

Thanks.

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: 1978 Glastron 175 HPV rebuild

I suspect the wood runner/backer was added by whoever split the boat last. Poorly fitting cap is why it's so important to support the hull w/ a good cradle while the cap is removed. It might not go back together correctly when you attempt to put the cap back on. Clearly it didn't fit properly, and now there's an unprotected wood backer & Great Stuff to deal w/.

 

[Auger01]

Re: 1978 Glastron 175 HPV rebuild

My 1978 glastron had 1/2" by 1.5 inch plywood pieces that were at the junction of the cap. I believe what you have there is also factory.

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: 1978 Glastron 175 HPV rebuild

My 1978 glastron had 1/2" by 1.5 inch plywood pieces that were at the junction of the cap. I believe what you have there is also factory.

Perhaps, but based on the poor quality refit of the cap, I still bet the pieces he found were added by the PO at the time the cap was removed. If there was a plywood backer originally, and is needed, it can & should probably be wrapped in CSM & resin.

Never underestimate what someone prior to you may have done against the best interests of the longevity of a boat. Check the horror found under deck & on the hull of my Jet. Not pretty..... Or the often confusing & poor workmanship the original manufacturer used during production. Also not very pretty fairly often

It'll all come together though... Esp w/ more care & attention to detail during the rehab...

 

[NWI Boater]

Re: 1978 Glastron 175 HPV rebuild

I suspect the wood runner/backer was added by whoever split the boat last. Poorly fitting cap is why it's so important to support the hull w/ a good cradle while the cap is removed. It might not go back together correctly when you attempt to put the cap back on. Clearly it didn't fit properly, and now there's an unprotected wood backer & Great Stuff to deal w/.

Actually, the wood backer is on the sides. I was able to get my hand in a few places where there were control panel cutouts and such. I have not been able to tell what's behind the joint in the back with all that foam carp in the way. I'm really hoping I can manipulate the bottom half a bit when I get the motor off and the weight isn't a factor.

 

[NWI Boater]

Re: 1978 Glastron 175 HPV rebuild

My 1978 glastron had 1/2" by 1.5 inch plywood pieces that were at the junction of the cap. I believe what you have there is also factory.

Boy, if that's factory work, it's pretty bad when they don't glass in wood that can have direct contact with water coming under the rub rail. Of course, that was over 35 years ago, but still...

Is your Glastron also a 175 HPV or another model? Would love to compare some pictures of another 175 HPV.

 

[NWI Boater]

Re: 1978 Glastron 175 HPV rebuild

It'll all come together though... Esp w/ more care & attention to detail during the rehab...

Absolutely!! I've been able to lift the top away in quite a few areas, so unless it's glassed together somewhere else, I've gotta believe the top will come away pretty clean, except where they used the Great Stuff foam.

A few more questions that come to mind...Is it worth reglassing the overlap tab to create more strength for holding the two halves together, even though there will be a new plywood backer put in and glassed to the hull? Looking at the old rub rail, one of the POs clearly drilled more holes when the old ones gave up their hold, so new rub rail will be needed and I'm not sure I want all those extraneous holes left in the overlap tab.

Second, I already know this thing will need a new gel coat when I'm all done. Does the old gel coat have to be completely sanded away or simply de-glossed? I'm also thinking in terms of glassing a new tab...how far back on the old gel coat surface do I need to go if I'm going to reinforce the tab and is CSM or 1708 the preferred method of reinforcing that overlap? Guess I don't want to go too thick or run the risk of impeding the fit of the two halves at reassembly time.

Lots to think about up front.

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: 1978 Glastron 175 HPV rebuild

Actually, the wood backer is on the sides. I was able to get my hand in a few places where there were control panel cutouts and such.

I'm sorry, that's were I was expecting the backer to be, behind the rubrail & the hull/cap joint. Hope it wasn't confusing. Sorry..

If it's the same yr & model boat, you should try & get all kinds of dimensions from Auger.

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: 1978 Glastron 175 HPV rebuild

Absolutely!! I've been able to lift the top away in quite a few areas, so unless it's glassed together somewhere else, I've gotta believe the top will come away pretty clean, except where they used the Great Stuff foam.

At the transom, the wood & resin/glass may extend part way up into the cap & be 'stuck' to the cap. After the motor is removed, it should be evident if the wood & glass resin extend up into the cap holding it onto the hull. Careful use of a sawzall or multitool from both the in/underside & the exterior of the transom will help get the cap released & free to be lifted.

A few more questions that come to mind...Is it worth reglassing the overlap tab to create more strength for holding the two halves together, even though there will be a new plywood backer put in and glassed to the hull? Looking at the old rub rail, one of the POs clearly drilled more holes when the old ones gave up their hold, so new rub rail will be needed and I'm not sure I want all those extraneous holes left in the overlap tab. Second, I already know this thing will need a new gel coat when I'm all done. Does the old gel coat have to be completely sanded away or simply de-glossed? I'm also thinking in terms of glassing a new tab...how far back on the old gel coat surface do I need to go if I'm going to reinforce the tab and is CSM or 1708 the preferred method of reinforcing that overlap? Guess I don't want to go too thick or run the risk of impeding the fit of the two halves at reassembly time.

Lots to think about up front.

Once you get the cap off, you can decide if you need to reinforce the cap lip. If so, depending on the need, CSM alone or w/ 1708, can be used to rebuild the lip. But you'll need to be careful, you don't want to build up a bulge along the lip that will be difficult to fair. If all your glass work is on the exterior/topside of the lip, it shouldn't impede the fitment back over the hulls top edge.

Re-spraying the hull w/ gelcoat is a huge undertaking, requiring fairly large capacity & volume air compressor and a specialized spray gun. Not normally a DIY project, but it can be done. And it can be done via a paint roller. You can google/YouTube videos of gelcoat work. Many (most?) here are using a few different brands of off the shelf paint, or marine epoxy paint. Lots of choices in paint. Lots of good durable results from a wide range of products. Many of those are compatible w/ a hardener additive that improves paint wear-ability.

That is all for down the road from here. While you're waiting for delivery of glassing supplies for the redo of the deck, stringers & transom read through some of WoodOnGlass's post @ painting. In fact he just started a new thread @ some new paint he's planning to test & review soon @ his project.

 

[NWI Boater]

Re: 1978 Glastron 175 HPV rebuild

If it's the same yr & model boat, you should try & get all kinds of dimensions from Auger.

That's exactly what I'm hoping. Who knows what this boat has been through and would be nice to compare notes.

 

[Auger01]

Re: 1978 Glastron 175 HPV rebuild

Mine is a 1978 T-160 sportster so I cant help with the dimensions. I can say however that most of the wood in my boat had ony paint to protect it from water and that the quality of work underneath the floor was very poor. I believe that was common to most Glastrons of that vintage.



Pictures of the Glastron Sportster

 

[NWI Boater]

Re: 1978 Glastron 175 HPV rebuild

Well, my son and I got the Evinrude 150 VRO V6 off the back of the boat, today. What a behemoth of a motor. Almost lost it a couple times off the hoist because the darn thing is so back heavy. It kept wanting to shift.

Also stripped off all the metal and trim they used on the transom. What's interesting is that I do not see anywhere where the transom area is cut so the top can lift off. I'm assuming I can cut right along the back and front top edge of the transom area. You can see in the pictures that there is quite a bit of cracking of the glass in this area. In addition, it would appear the entire transom area is bowed, probably due to the weight of that motor. I'm assuming the transom should be straight and not bowed in any way?

Also, looking at the boat again, there are what I'll call "hips" that cut back from the transom. I suppose when I get the top off I'll be able to see more, but any ideas what to do about these areas on each side? I'd like to run a new transom all the way from starboard to port to create the greatest strength, but not sure what to do in those areas. Somehow I need to pull this thing back into shape to get the top fitted correctly. If I needed to, could I glass in some bracing to hold it in place and to brace the new transom even further or is it needed if the transom is done correctly?

Geez, what a mess the wiring is in this thing. I'll be spending plenty of time in that forum as well. There has to be a better way. There isn't that much that requires wiring. Not sure why it's so convoluted.

 

[NWI Boater]

Re: 1978 Glastron 175 HPV rebuild

OK.

It's been 100 degrees here and had stuff going on, so didn't have a lot of time to work on the boat, but late in the afternoon, I decided to cut into the top of the transom to see what's going on. Lo and behold, one of the previous owners installed Seacast and in the process screwed up the install of the cap so it doesn't fit over the bottom hull.

I need some expert opinions on my next steps. I've attached a photo of the area I cut away. The Seacast does not go all the way across the boat to the sides of the hull. It simply stops at the point where the "hips" of the boat cut back from the splash well. I'm not sure at this point if I really need to take the cap off but I also would like the top to fit on correctly. Also, I've stripped the floor of the boat and there is absolutely NO FOAM in the boat, except back by the so called hips I've been mentioning. This concerns me. It does not appear that there ever was foam in this boat by the stringers.

So, now what?

Should I simply leave the Seacast and call it good?

Do I need to take the cap off?

Any ideas how to square the back of this boat so the cap fits over the bottom hull?

Frustrated!!!

 

[NWI Boater]

Re: 1978 Glastron 175 HPV rebuild

Some more work done, but still no definitive answers on how to get the cap off or whether to even take it off. I really could use some guidance as to what you guys would do. Here's the update:

Secast has been poured all the way to the bottom of the boat. In the process, I don't think the transom was supported correctly and the back two corners of the cap are not seated over the hull properly, resulting in gaps between the cap and hull that they simply filled in with Great Stuff. I've cleaned most of that out, but the issue still remains that this cap has been sealed pretty well inside the boat to the rest of the hull and I cannot get at it to release the cap. I even cut along the inside skin by the splashwell where it meets the transom and the Seacast is bonded to both the inner and outer skins.

So, do I even bother to pull the cap off at all if my transom is Seacast? I could probably still run new stringers and flooring with the cap on, despite the back aft deck being part of the cap. However, how do I go about fixing the fact that the cap doesn't seat fully over the hull? You can see in the pictures below that the starboard side is a good 1" off. Even if I were to remove the cap, there's no guarantee that I could get the back of the boat moved in an inch to get it right.

Basically, what would you guys do?

I could cut the splashwell at the yellow marks in the one picture and it might release the cap, but who knows. This is really driving me crazy. WHat's interesting is I used a few heavy duty Jorgensen cabinet clamps to see if I could draw in the transom and the thing doesn't budge. That Seacast seems to do its job.

 

[GT1000000]

Re: 1978 Glastron 175 HPV rebuild

Hi NWI,

Now that I caught your thread, I need to read through it...as soon as I get caught up, I will help any way I can...

Gotta go to work right now, till then,

GT1M