1974 Ebbtide Restoration - SPLASHED

[mercurymang]

Re: 1974 Ebbtide Restoration

Re: 1974 Ebbtide Restoration

WOG, I won't be able to get any pictures up until this evening after work but I remembered that there is a guy who had the same boat as I do, same model, same year. He has some pics that show the front just so you can see what it looks like. It doesn't really go into detail about what he did to remove the cap but I figured I would link it in.http://forums.iboats.com/boat-restoration-building-hull-repair/my-project-74-ebbtide-584261.html

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: 1974 Ebbtide Restoration

Re: 1974 Ebbtide Restoration

This pix suggests that Den cut the consoles off and removed the structure above the deck, and the fore deck under the consoles running up to the bow:

Notice everything is missing in his next interior pix:

 

[52FordF2]

Re: 1974 Ebbtide Restoration

Re: 1974 Ebbtide Restoration

The weather is nice today so I've been doing some work. I got about half of the floor removed. There's good news and bad news it appears.
First the good. Although the back of the boat is water logged, it looks like they did a poor job of pouring the foam in the back so there is no foam up against the transom and the weep holes allow any water in there to leak out. Therefore, I think the transom is in good shape.

The bad news is that I think the stringers are bad up under the console which means the caps will need to come off.

Going back to the windshield and the misalignment, I think the trailer bunks are too low. The floor is somewhat bowed as you can see below where I placed a straightedge across the stringers. I'm either going to readjust the bunks on the trailer to straighten out the bow or just move it to a cradle. I haven't quite figured out what to do yet. If you have any advice here, I would be more than happy to hear it.

That looks like how my windshield was. There may be a platform supporting the front walk thru area. When I cut the platform out, the front cap settled, and now there is no gap, but now I have to push it appart to open it.

I plan on putting stringers and supporting platform back in before removing cap, to get the gap. I can just get in enough to grind area's and place small patches of FG to hold sections together before removing cap. That way I get the right gap size.

I' ll be following along

 

[52FordF2]

Re: 1974 Ebbtide Restoration

Re: 1974 Ebbtide Restoration

There may be a wood support platform under the existing FG floor that is part of the cap. Didn't mean for you to cut the FG floor out just the under wood section:facepalm:. It may also be glued to it from below. I'm still cleaning rotton wood off.

-10degree here in Bloomfield today:lol:

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: 1974 Ebbtide Restoration

Re: 1974 Ebbtide Restoration

I remember that project. He built a very nice Cradle. I also remember he eventually did a De-Capitation. We ALL want to try not to but in the long run it seems like it's inevitable. If you want to ensure your boats 100% restored, you'll prolly need to De-Capitate her, do a full "Gut" job on her and then Put her all back together. BUT... before you do...Get out a Pad, Pencil and tape measure and take every conceivable measurement as she is now along with the camera and take pics of every conceivable angle and perspective. You won't believe what you will forget and how handy all of this will we be later.

 

[mercurymang]

Re: 1974 Ebbtide Restoration

Re: 1974 Ebbtide Restoration

Thanks for the response JB. I'm not sure why he did it that way but I'm sure he had his reasons. That being said, I'll just have to get in there and poke around for a while and see how it's put together. I'm just trying to avoid doing something stupid. I've seen threads where guys post up pics after they hacked the back end of there cap off and then find out that was a bad idea.
I just want to get a good understanding of how it's assembled and possibly some pointers before I try to do anything.

 

[mercurymang]

Re: 1974 Ebbtide Restoration

Re: 1974 Ebbtide Restoration

I remember that project. He built a very nice Cradle. I also remember he eventually did a De-Capitation. We ALL want to try not to but in the long run it seems like it's inevitable. If you want to ensure your boats 100% restored, you'll prolly need to De-Capitate her, do a full "Gut" job on her and then Put her all back together. BUT... before you do...Get out a Pad, Pencil and tape measure and take every conceivable measurement as she is now along with the camera and take pics of every conceivable angle and perspective. You won't believe what you will forget and how handy all of this will we be later.

Yes, I generally take twice as many pics as necessary. As for the measurements, I took a bunch but wasn't sure where to stop. I really think at this point I just need to get in there are poke around and see how it's constructed.

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: 1974 Ebbtide Restoration

Re: 1974 Ebbtide Restoration

Think of it like this, You'll be putting it back together so you're gunna need to know every conceivable measurement from every conceivable known stable object. You may not know what's gunna be removed so make some marks on the hull that you KNOW will still be there and measure from those marks to reference points on the deck so you can ensure things line back up on the deck at the exact same spots in reference to the hull.

 

[mercurymang]

Re: 1974 Ebbtide Restoration

Re: 1974 Ebbtide Restoration

Thanks for all the input guys. I'm gonna bundle up this evening and get out there for a bit. I'm planning to be done by summer so I have to put in at least a little every day.

 

[mercurymang]

Re: 1974 Ebbtide Restoration

Re: 1974 Ebbtide Restoration

Ok, I have to put this out there. I really have it in my head that I want to use epoxy resin. It's just how I am. Can someone talk me into poly resin?

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: 1974 Ebbtide Restoration

Re: 1974 Ebbtide Restoration

Poly will allow you to do multiple layups, quickly as it cures in 30-45min. No delays waiting for the product to cure. No sanding between coats, esp when multiple layups are done 1 after another the same day.

It's what the boat was made w/ originally.

Rather then stating you've decided on epoxy & ask to be talked out of it, perhaps you should post why you think you'd rather use epoxy, and exactly where you want to use it. Else this epoxy vs poly debate tends to be tedious, IMO.

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: 1974 Ebbtide Restoration

Re: 1974 Ebbtide Restoration

I agree! Tell us why you're leaning towards using Epoxy!

 

[tpenfield]

Re: 1974 Ebbtide Restoration

Re: 1974 Ebbtide Restoration

Ok, I have to put this out there. I really have it in my head that I want to use epoxy resin. It's just how I am. Can someone talk me into poly resin?

Vinyl Ester Resin (VE). . . sort of 'in between' Poly and Epoxy . . . More water proof than Poly, longer cure times like epoxy, good adhesion, better than poly, but not as good as epoxy.

 

[zool]

Re: 1974 Ebbtide Restoration

Re: 1974 Ebbtide Restoration

Ok, I have to put this out there. I really have it in my head that I want to use epoxy resin. It's just how I am. Can someone talk me into poly resin?

Epoxy has been fairly easy to work with, besides the long cure times, and it more forgiving than Poly..its costs more but ships for less and doesnt smell terrible and the fumes are less toxic....BUT..if you end up sensitized
like I did, then your hands, wrists, ect look like godzilla after a session..your finger tips will split and bleed...some never have a problem, some do..Ill finish my current project with the epoxy...but try vinylester or poly on my next....just a heads up, but google epoxy sensitivity..

 

[Decker83]

Re: 1974 Ebbtide Restoration

Re: 1974 Ebbtide Restoration

If you or planning on using gel coat, it will not hold to epoxy.

 

[mercurymang]

Re: 1974 Ebbtide Restoration

Re: 1974 Ebbtide Restoration

Fair enough. I have pretty much zero experience with either solution but I have read quite a bit. So here's my breakdown, and i'm sure I'm wrong on some of these but this is just how I have come to my conclusion.

1. Epoxy has better adhesion properties and is a better product in the hands of a novice.
2. Epoxy has better water resistance than poly.
3. Epoxy has a consistent cure time which is a function of ratio of product instead of temperature.
4. Poly resin cannot cure in air and must have a wax layer to cure which then has to be removed to lay subsequent layers over it.
5. Poly resin has more "odor".
6. Gel coat sticks to epoxy with no issues as long as the correct preparation has been done.

I can't think of any others at the moment but these ought to be enough for discussion. Yes, I would love to spend less money on the poly resin but I would rather spend the money if the product is worth it. As I said, my gut says go with epoxy but I would defer to folks like yourself who have actual experience. Let me know what you think.
I'm gonna bundle up and go take some pics. Be back in a while.

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: 1974 Ebbtide Restoration

Re: 1974 Ebbtide Restoration

WOW!!! Not sure where you got this info!!!

1. Epoxy has better adhesion properties and is a better product in the hands of a novice. Partially true. Better adhesion yes better for novice...Hmmm in some instances but not in others. When doing your transom, since most of the work will be vertical you'll find it will be REALLY difficult to do the layups. Epoxy, unless you use the Fast cure, takes a LONG time to set up an cure so you'll be Baby Sitty and troweling and working the resin and fabric a LOT to ensure that there are no bubbles , wrinkles or voids.
2. Epoxy has better water resistance than poly. True however the difference between Poly and Epoxy Water resistance is so miniscule you'd have to immerse a properlh laminated piece of fiberglass for a hundred years before you'd find any noticeable water penetration and then it would probably only occur due to contaminates in the lamination or improper user installation.
3. Epoxy has a consistent cure time which is a function of ratio of product instead of temperature. NOPE not true. You can have just as many problems with Epoxy not curing properly as Poly. If you don't get the mix right neither one of the resins will cure properly. There are plenty of examples here on the forum of that for both Epoxy and Poly. Bad MEKP or Hardener, Temps, Improper mix ratios all kinds of reasons. If the hardener is good and the ratios are within the MFG stated specs Both Resin will "Kick" as advertised. Poly just does it a LOT FASTER. P.S. Higer Temps WILL make Epoxy Cure Faster as well. Same for Poly.
4. Poly resin cannot cure in air and must have a wax layer to cure which then has to be removed to lay subsequent layers over it. This is TOTALLY untrue. Poly will cure without wax. It just takes a very long time. This is what makes it so nice to work with. You can do mulitiple laminations without the hassle of sanding and prepping for the next layer of glass. Epoxy can and will develop an AMINE blush then DOES require sanding and prepping before the next layer of glass can be applied.
5. Poly resin has more "odor". Totally 1000% Accurate. However some people are HIGHLY allergic to Epoxy. Never heard of an allergic reaction to Poly. Not saying there hasn't been, just that I've not heard of it.
6. Gel coat sticks to epoxy with no issues as long as the correct preparation has been done. This is HIGHLY debatable and on this FORUM the general concesus has been this is FALSE. ondarvr, one of or Experts on this matter, says this is not the case and strongly advises against attempting to apply gelcoat over epoxy. I have researched this a bunch and I agree with him totally. There is ONE mfg of Epoxy that says their epoxy can be used and then prepped to have gelcoat applied. I've not read about any successful and satisfied users of this application.

Well That's this Dumb Okies 2? worth on the subject. Others may differ. For your boat and what you're needing to do, I'd highly recommend sticking with Poly. If you were doing some other type of repair Epoxy might be appropriate, IMHO, this is not the time or place.

 

[mercurymang]

Re: 1974 Ebbtide Restoration

Re: 1974 Ebbtide Restoration

Ok. I'm listening. I actually want to be talked into poly because of the cost. Y'know, looking at the way my boat was thrown together, I think I could put it together with duct tape and make it more sturdy. I'm kidding of course but you should see some of the work on the stringers. It's horrible.
At any rate, I took some pics of my bow.

Ok, here's a shot of the underside of the console. You can see where the upper part of the console is attached to the cap and is separate from the bottom part (not sure what you call the piece between the cap and the floor).

And here it is from the top:

And here's an eye level shot:

Ok, here's the transom:

And here it is from the outside:

So I think getting the cap off in the front won't be so bad. The hard thing will be that middle piece and how to cut it out. I think I may need to go get one of those oscillating cutters. I here that they work pretty well.
I'm still not sure about how to separate the cap in the rear.

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: 1974 Ebbtide Restoration

Re: 1974 Ebbtide Restoration

The cap/transom is always problematic, you need to try to envision it in cross section, then how to try & cut it loose. Hope that ^^^ makes sense.

 

[mercurymang]

Re: 1974 Ebbtide Restoration

Re: 1974 Ebbtide Restoration

I had to think about it a bit but I think I got it. So how do ya git it lookin purdy agin?