1969 Sea Ray srv190 - full resto - planning questions

[Sasquatch1]

well here we go.. I always had dreams of building my own boat, but this sea ray (ignore the lovely StarCraft stickers on the side.. somebody tried to pass it off) came strolling along for cheap. The hull is nice and solid and clean.. the interior however is horrific. Its gonna need stringers, transom, floor, engine mount.. the whole shebang. Ive done a lot of reading on here and I have a few questions.. I plan on having this boat for a long time and I really don't want to do this whole thing all over again in 30 years.
1. Flotation foam - Hate it.. really would rather not put that ***t back in the boat. I understand it saves ur butt if you poke a hole in the bottom or if you experience some other catastrophic failure but the more soaked foam I pull out the more I don't want to put more back in. Can I just leave it out? is it really that beneficial if your not sinking?
2. Does anyone have any experience with Coosa Board? I did some research about it and it seems like for longevity and rot resistance this may be the material to go with for a transom. Granted it is expensive.. but would it be worth it if you don't have to replace the transom again?
3. Is there a material I can use besides plywood for the stringers? something that wont rot.. Could Coosa board be used for stringers as well? marine grade plywood has been suggested but ultimately.. its still plywood IMHO.

if you cant tell im really depressed about how bad the stringers and the transom are in the boat, and I don't want to end up replacing the whole shebang again.
Anyway here's a picture of the old girl (and I don't mean the one standing beside her that puts up with all of my projects.. she actually encouraged this one)

 

[thedinz]

pics?

Please see my post http://forums.iboats.com/forum/boat...nd-hull-repair/7986681-deck-rebuild-questions

Im in the same boat, also very depressed. While im not going to "band-aid" my boat, im not doing the transom unless i have to, im lucky that my motor mounts are good, the engine compartment is the best looking part. All the vinyl is good the seats worked fine last year because i just left them as they were, today when tearing the boat down the just fell apart, the wood underneath the vinyl was crap. Its tough when we love these old boats...

 

[jigngrub]

1. Floatation foam is actually a structural member of your boat, it adds support to the hull and deck and increases the overall rigidity of the boat.

2. Plywood will last you a lifetime if you take care of your boat, keep it covered and dry when not in use and it'll stay looking nice and will last for your kids to own it.

3. Take a look at this plywood, it has a lifetime warranty and won't rot even if it gets wet:
http://www.pontoonstuff.com/collect...et-flooring/products/3-4-marine-grade-plywood
It's a lot cheaper than Coosa too.

Cheer up, you're going to get a like new boat for a small fraction of the cost of a new one. You'll also know your boat very intimately inside and out.

 

[Sasquatch1]

ok let me rephrase "depressed" and say something like overjoyed to own my own boat bigger than a tin can haha. i was just hoping i wouldn't have to do so much work to get her going. luckily i am the type of guy that rolls in it when i get the chance to know something intimately inside and out. i just want to do the job right and never have to do it a second time.

thedinz - i will post some pictures when i get some time to take more of the interior. my seats are completely shot but thats ok with me. i plan on having a pretty wide open floor so i can fish in lake ontario. the transom (and i have seen this in other resto threads as well) is rotten where the swimming platform and step had holes punched through for mounting.

jigngrub - i wasnt sure the foam was structural? it makes sense that it is i suppose. in that case are there other options? could i build the stringers to provide more support? will a harder foam possibly soak less water? or will a harder foam create "hard spots" that will be bad for the hull?

 

[sheboyganjohn]

If you click in my link in my sig you will see the gut job I just did on a 73 searay. The foam is not an issue, the issue is not sealing the plywood completely to the hull, having holes drilled through the floor into the hull and having the plywood stringers as bare uncovered wood. If you seal off all the foam compartments below deck properly and never drill through the floor for mounting item in the boat, the plywood will do you just fine. I had a good amount of wood in my boat that was just fine, it was the stuff that was under factory installed items that no one could drill into.

 

[jigngrub]

jigngrub - i wasnt sure the foam was structural? it makes sense that it is i suppose. in that case are there other options? could i build the stringers to provide more support? will a harder foam possibly soak less water? or will a harder foam create "hard spots" that will be bad for the hull?

The standard density for floatation foam is 2 lb. per cubic foot, there are heavier densities that are more water resistant... but they're also more expensive. 2, 3, and 4 lb. densities are used in boat construction.

Some people will say that adding a heavier foam will add a lot more weight to your boat, I don't see it that way. The typical boat will use 12-16 cubic feet of foam, if you use 4 lb. foam instead of 2 lb. that's only 24-32 more pounds of weight... about the same as 2 or 3 bags of ice in a cooler.

But again, if you take care of your boat and keep it sheltered and dry when not in use the 2 lb. will last forever.

This is a quote from the FAQ section of a retail foam supplier:

~~
14. Is this foam water resistant?

Yes, but with the following caveat. The foams that we sell are considered closed-cell, which means that each cell that makes up the foam structure is completely closed off from surrounding cells which prevents it from acting like a sponge. It is completely safe for this foam to be in contact with water for hours/days/weeks and even months with no adverse effects. However, it should never be submerged in contact with water permanently. Over a period of years the water contact can begin to soften the foam and cause it to lose its closed-cell status. This foam is designed primarily to be used as an insurance policy in case of damage/holes that could cause a vessel to lose buoyancy. Pinhole sized openings would essentially have no effect on the foam since the amount of exposure is so minimal but you should always make repairs as soon as possible to keep the foam effectiveness as good as possible. This will be the case with all after market closed-cell polyurethane foams and even manufacturer installed foams.

Boats that have been neglected and left outside uncovered and exposed to the elements are the ones that have wet foam, boats that have been taken care of have nice dry foam.

 

[Sasquatch1]

Sheboyganjohn - I had a look at your thread and it looks to me like you have the exact same outdrives that I do.. ive been having trouble identifying mine.. I cant seem to find any serial numbers. do you have any info on how you identified yours/where you got a seal kit for them? the boat was in the water running 2 years ago but I want to go through everything and get it as close to factory new as possible

jigngrub - so if im willing to pay the extra for the foam would you recommend the 4#? and if the foam is cut or scraped that means it loses its "closed cell" status correct? I did see a post where someone basically "bagged" their foam in shrink-wrap to keep water from contacting it at all. im not sure how I feel about doing that either because that involved basically creating a formed foam block before putting the floor in.

thedinz - in my opinion if im going as far as replacing the stringers, even if my transom is almost completely solid (which it definitely is not) I would replace it just for the piece of mind. Id rather KNOW its solid as a rock than wonder if there's a soft spot haha. I like jigngrub's tag - I consider overkill a job well done...plus a little extra.

thanks everyone for bearing with me.. I like to form a plan before ripping and tearing..

 

[Sasquatch1]

huh it doesn't look like my picture worked in the first post???

 

[Woodonglass]

The foam in your boat may or may not be structural. It depends on the overall design and build of the hull. Most hulls with Stringers and bulkheads are not structurally dependent upon the foam. The foam does give more support to the fiberglass shell and afford it less "Give" and some puncture resistance but it mostly provides the required flotation requirements. Hulls that are Structurally dependant upon the foam usually don't have stringers or if they do they are minimalistic and specifically designed in such a manner that the foam provides all the structure. Most of these types hulls were developed in the late 70's and 80's. I'm not aware of any in the 60's but I'll keep researching and let you know if I find out differently. I'm currently trying to track down your current model to find out the specifics.

Ok I found the info...Found the brochure on 1969 SeaRays. As I suspected the foam is NOT structural. Good news is the stringers were fabricated out of Cedar. You can see the rest...

 

[Sasquatch1]

No Title

WOG thanks for that brochure.. that's some awesome info right there.. actually clears up a couple other head scratcher questions I had haha. Now this brings me to another point.. I did notice that the stringers were solid wood.. I couldn't determine what kind until I looked at this brochure. Would it be better to use cedar or some other rot resistant wood instead of plywood?? my center stringers a 13 feet long so id have to stitch them together if I was using plywood.

Also!! while tearing out last night I noticed that the stringers WERENOT capped as I've seen in just about every resto thread here. the flooring was laid directly on top of the bare stringer and then tabbed to the stringer with fiberglass? is this a common from the factory thing or is that someone else's restoration??

and it looks like I got the photo to work

 

[Woodonglass]

Unfortunately that's very common from the factory back in the day. You can use either dimensional lumber or plywood. I prefer plywood due to its inherent strength. you can use 1/2" ext. grade and laminate it together with 2ft overlaps to get your required lenghths. See the drawing below. Use Titebond III wood glue to glue em together and it'll never come apart. You'll end up with a 1" stringer that'll be perfect for your boat. When YOU install the new stringers you should cap them with CSM or 1708 and it's all described in this link...Fabricating Decks, Stringers, and Transoms. The only other thing that concerns me a bit is your drive train. The brochure shows the Old OMC stringer drive. Is this what you have. If so, these things are obsolete and becoming hard to find parts for and mechanics don't really like to work on them. If she's a good runner and there are no problems then you might be ok but just and FYI for future reference. Post a pic of the motor and outdrive so we can see what you have.

 

[Sasquatch1]

the motor is an old (1968 I believe) mercruiser 230ci. From what I've read they're ok to get parts for. I did post another thread a while ago asking about parts interchangeability between the 230 and 250 because the 250 is abundantly more common. From what I was told they are considered almost identical. I haven't been able to accurately identify the outdrive yet, but from what I've read I believe its an "R" drive. that may change.. if I can find an alpha drive id like to bolt one of those up.. I've read that that's a stronger design (lower gearset-wise)

On THAT note.. I plan on completely rebuilding both the motor and the outdrive.. I know this isn't necessarily the place for it but im here already. Are these two easy to get parts for (reasonably easy that is) or should I start looking into a repower?? I rebuilt my 1958 Evinrude Lark but I had a complete donor motor for that project..

Here's the only picture of the outdrive that I have right now

 

[sheboyganjohn]

PM me and I can send you some motor documents I have received from others on this site from over the years.

 

[Sasquatch1]

No Title

Well tear-out and planning stage continues.. Got a lot of the floor and hardware off this weekend.. Along with some poking and prodding in the motor and quite a lot of wiring :facepalm:
In my planning I was looking at pictures of other sea rays. trying to establish some ideas for layout etc.. and unfortunately for me I came across THIS Sea Ray Amberjack.. I've always wanted a Center Console and MAN does that look good.. so long story short I've made up my mind and as soon as I move im gonna be hacking apart the cap and the current dashboard. so some questions about that..
1. The boat has a bulkhead now under the closed bow.. How much support and structure does a closed bow cap provide versus a completely open bow? im assuming im gonna have to make a "step up" into the bow to basically make a bulkhead.
2. Where do all the motor controls/wiring harness go? through the floor I assume.. and then an access panel is required?

Heres a picture of the current status

a lot of work ahead

 

[Sasquatch1]

there.. got the pictures to work I think

 

[sheboyganjohn]

Go to page 3 of my dory build and you can get an idea how to run everything for a center console. Be sure to look a the pics after the trailer, you can see how I access everything for the console.

Did you get the stuff I sent you?

 

[Sasquatch1]

Yes I did thank you. That stuff will be very helpful. Ill be sure to check out your dory build.. I looked at Matthewp's center console build and got a lot of great ideas from that thread as well. Im definitely excited for the process.

Last night the tearout continued... mainly in the wiring harness/gauge department.. Im not gonna lie I was blown away at how bad that rats nest was.. Hanging grounds everywhere... hanging positive ends.. nothing connected to the fuse panel.. its a miracle the boat didn't burst into a ball of electrical flame.. I did manage to sort some things out but needless to say an entirely new harness will be needed :facepalm: getting there.. slowly but surely haha

 

[Sasquatch1]

No Title

Progress is slow, but I did manage to mock up a rough layout of what I would need for plywood in terms of stringers and deck.. This is a great way to avoid wasting money... I mean plywood, at 90 bucks a sheet it might as well be some form of currency. Just grab some graph paper and take some measurements and there ya have it!! I rough plan of how much plywood you need to budget for haha

 

[jigngrub]

Figure in about 15% waste on everything.

 

[Sasquatch1]

yeah that's one thing I didn't do is account for saw kerf. especially on the sheet that has the stringers laid out. I think the layout for the floor panels is ok but I may have to alter that one