1968 Larson rebuild

[bp1313]

Hey everyone,

First post for a new user . I recently bought a 68 Larson that needs some work. It needs some cosmetic help, but I'm more concerned with the deck/stringers. I bought it expecting to have to repair all of the stringers, bulkheads, deck, etc...but after looking at it...I'm not so sure. Here's what I've got going on:

The deck seems almost completely solid. There are no soft spots when walking or jumping around on the deck. Tapping with a hammer I only found one tiny place that might be rot, but it doesn't seem bad at all. There's a layer of glass on the deck that is cracked in several spots (never painted) and it is holding water against the deck. The guy I bought it from had it outside in the rain. I've pulled up some of the fiberglass and I'll be removing the rest in the future. I've got it under cover and I'm going to let it dry out as best as I can. Is there a way to know whether the stringers need to be replaced without removing the deck? Any recommendations with how an experienced person would move forward with diagnosis and repair? Is it possible (if the subflooring is intact) to dry the deck and refiberglass it as it? Or should the current deck be removed just to be sure?

Sorry if some of these questions seem silly, but I'm new to this and want to avoid any dumb mistakes that I can. I usually learn the hard way...so let's see if I can improve on that

thanks for any help!

http://i320.photobucket.com/albums/nn328/reaidga/SAM_0781.jpg
http://i320.photobucket.com/albums/nn328/reaidga/SAM_0790.jpg
http://i320.photobucket.com/albums/nn328/reaidga/SAM_0782.jpg

(hope the pictures are viewable for you)

 

[kfa4303]

Re: 1968 Larson deck help

Re: 1968 Larson deck help

HI bp. Welcome to iboats. Cool new toy you got there. The only way to be 100% sure of the condition of the stringers is to remove the deck and inspect them. However, you can also drill several discrete pilot holes at various locations around the deck/sole to inspect the condition of the material beneath. If the shavings come out nice and dry you may be ok. However, if they come out wet, or discolored then the stringers are probably toast. Not to worry, you're in the right place. We've got some great fiberglass guys here that can walk you through any issues you may have. Good luck. Keep us posted.

 

[coolbri70]

Re: 1968 Larson deck help

Re: 1968 Larson deck help

the stringers on that boat were fiberglass over foam that may be wet and the planks that rest on top of the foam

 

[bp1313]

Re: 1968 Larson deck help

Re: 1968 Larson deck help

Thanks for the replies...

I got a chance to mess around with it for a couple hours. I stripped as much of the crappy glass as I could off of the existing deck. Some of it wouldn't come off because it is really sealed. I think that's a good thing . I pulled off the panels on the sides because I'm going to redo the vinyl and put them back in place. Looks like I'll need to reglass the blocks and plank that were holding them in place. (nothing that worries me)

Here are some more pics of what's going on... I think that I'm going to dry the whole thing out, sand everything to get a decent, flat, clean surface to deal with, then glass the whole floor again. I don't think the stringers are bad based on what I see, feel, and have tested (I drilled two holes and got dry material). Then I'll cover the glass in the floor with something (either paint, gelcoat, dura back etc.). let me know if you see anything from the pics that I should worry about. I'd really like to avoid ripping this floor out, but I will if I have to. I'm actually surprised at the condition on the deck considering the water that got beneath the glass.

thanks for looking...

pic of the starboard side after panel removal. the glass that is still there is stuck down to the plywood. I can't remove it with the scraper like I did with the rest.

http://i320.photobucket.com/albums/nn328/reaidga/SAM_0828.jpg

close up of the starboard side where the deck meets the hull. I can't scrape this either. Looks like they dumped resin on the sides (or something similar) to seal it all in.

http://i320.photobucket.com/albums/nn328/reaidga/SAM_0825.jpg

thanks,

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: 1968 Larson deck help

Re: 1968 Larson deck help

Might suggest you copy/paste the code, it will be in box below the pix after you upload them, and looks something like this:

IMG]http://i1246.photobucket.com/albums/jbcurt00/chine.gif[/IMG

And when you submit the reply it posts the pix nice & big IN your thread so that you don't have to click an attachment & open it, to view the pix:
[IMG]http://i1246.photobucket.com/albums/gg618/jbcurt00/chine.gif

Since the fiberglass your are easily pulling off should run up the hull sides several inches (6"? Maybe 8" or more...) and is a structural element of your boats hull system, I'd suggest you remove the deck even though you don't want too.

If you are removing the existing glass, it is clearly no longer doing it's job, and the deck to some degree has been exposed to moisture, particularly since you mention that there was quite a bit of cracking of the glass. If you are removing the deck's glass, you'll likely need to remove some of the side trim panels to tie the new deck glass to the sides of the hull.

So then the difference between pulling & replacing the deck plus getting a good look below deck, and the current plan to not pull the deck is time & the cost of a few sheets of plywood and the cost to seal the backside of the deck. 'Regular' exterior grade plywood wouldn't be my 1st choice, but has certainly been used, and may run less then $40/sheet. I doubt you need 4 whole sheets(that would be 16ft+ of decking from the transom towards the bow).

Given the upside to getting a good look below deck & a new deck and the downside of not replacing a deck that has gotten wet, seems like $200 well spent.

An added bonus to replacing the deck is getting the opportunity to add floatation foam (or remove waterlogged foam). Then for me it makes even less sense not to replace the deck.

 

[bp1313]

Re: 1968 Larson deck help

Re: 1968 Larson deck help

Thanks JBcurt,

As much as I'm reluctant to do so... You're probably spot on about pulling up the deck to get a look. The next time I've got a chance to do some work to the boat I'll begin pulling it up and post the pics of what I find.

It looks like there's a layer of epoxy or resin around the edges of the deck. In some spots it's almost 1/2 inch thick. Any suggestions on the best way to remove that? Grinder? sander? etc. I'll have to get all of that junk out before removing the screws in the decking itself.

again...thanks for all your help and apologize for silly questions. I'll post more pics as I progress through this project. Hopefully I can get enough accomplished by next spring and we can get down to serious business. Crabbing and Salmon fishing that is

Thanks,

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: 1968 Larson deck help

Re: 1968 Larson deck help

apologize for silly questions. Thanks

You're welcome, & no problem.

BTW: No silly questions.

 

[bp1313]

Re: 1968 Larson deck help

Re: 1968 Larson deck help

I did some looking and saw some other posts about these Larsons. I see that the "stringers" aren't necessarily similiar to other boats. Like state earlier...."fiberglass over foam that may be wet and the planks that rest on top of the foam." Given this, do you think it would be best to rebuild them (if needed) and keep to the original design? (wide foam bases, capped with planks, then everything glass in) or with more traditional stringers made of solid wood that are thinner with no foam base.)

Also...any tips for removing the glass and resin that are on the edges of the deck near the chine? It's really thick there. I probably going to use a palm sander with heavy grit sandpaper, but someone please steer me away if this is something you find problematic.

Thanks,

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: 1968 Larson deck help

Re: 1968 Larson deck help

IF the glass stringers are in good shape, not cracked or pulling up from the hull, and are not delaminated you can leave them. You'll have to decide how to proceed if it appears that the foam inside the stringers has become water logged (heavy & keeps water below decks).

The inside corner of the hull/deck joint in this pix:

Where the fiberglass has darkened running up the side of the hull?

Cutting thru it w/ an angle grinder w/ a thin kerf metal cutting wheel. Be careful to not cut thru the bottom or sides of the hull. You will end up hitting the vertical sides of the hull 10-12" w/ a flap wheel or sanding disc on a grinder. It needs to be scuffed to ensure good adhesion when you bring the new glass up onto the sides of the hull when you install the deck's glass...

Once you get the deck out, you'll want to inspect & assess the transom as well. It has likely been exposed to water as well.

 

[bp1313]

Re: 1968 Larson deck help

Re: 1968 Larson deck help

Alrighty! Got a bit more torn out of the boat to see what's going on downstairs. After removal of one deck panel...it's clear that the deck had to go for sure. Good portions of the plywood were fine, but the seams in the plywood and the holes they used to fill the hull with foam weren't done correctly (IMO). The water that was held beneath the top layer of fiberglass made it's way down through the seams and the holes. That's some of the bad news. There's some good news as well. See the pics below and provide any feeback you can.

First pic... whoever installed the last deck put resin (or epoxy, peanut butter, whatever) all around the seam between the hull and the deck. Lots of it! In some spots it was almost half an inch thick. I didn't know where the deck panels ended and the hull began. I was really careful with a grinder and cut through it along the edge of one of the panels. This is a pic of the starboard side working from stern forward.

Here's a pic of the side after I cut away as much as I could

I did both sides this way and then started to work on the screws holding the deck to the stringers. Once I had all of the screws out...I tried to pull the deck up. It woudn't come up. Turns out they put some sort of caulking type material on the top of the stringers prior to laying the deck. I had to cut straight up the middle of the panel and start pulling. Here's the first view of the corner I ripped up.

There's standing water (now removed because I increased the level of the bow) and stuff floating in it. I'm worried at this point. Then I pulled up the whole panel

this pics shows it really well. Just above the deck looking back to the transom. You can see the foam on either side and the insides of the stringers

So... after reviewing it and poking around...this is what I'm thinking. The glass for the stringers isn't peeling, cracked, or compromised (in this section and to the best of my judgement, of course) These stringers are basically foam, encapsulated by wood, then covered with glass. Unfortunately...the top of the stringers aren't completely covered and the water that leaked down has caused some damage to the wood. The foam, although discolored in some spots...is dry below the surface. I'm going to pull the planks off the tops of the stringers and then assess from there. If no damage to the underlying foam... I may just replace the planks and glass the stringers again.

That being said...this is just a 3-4ft section of the stringers/foam and I can't be sure about the rest until I take it all off. It's almost like these guys did a pretty good job with the last job...until the got to the top of the deck. Let me know what you think Thanks!

 

[chevyandgmc]

Re: 1968 Larson deck help

Re: 1968 Larson deck help

all right another larson lapline restoration in the works. looks like there are a few in progress. good luck we will be watching and offering you all the advice you could possibly need. seems like you got a good start though

 

[coolbri70]

Re: 1968 Larson deck help

Re: 1968 Larson deck help

i have a resto thread of the same boat w/ pics if you want to look , one of the smoothest riding boats ive been on, def a keeper

 

[bp1313]

Re: 1968 Larson deck help

Re: 1968 Larson deck help

Hey Cool,

I read through your whole thread and you did nice work (I just might try the Krylon spray can paint job after looking at yours.) I looked up as much as I could on the larson stringer set up to decide what I would do if it needed to be totally rebuilt. It's looking like the stringers might be mostly salvagable. I'm going to remove the plank from the top of them and then inspect the foam. The glass on bilge side looks and feels really good. We'll see what we're dealing with once I see what's underneath the planks. I've got issues keeping me from doing this job fast (new baby, wife, money, time, weather, etc...) but I'm hoping to have it splash testing sometime early next summer. A whole lot of crab and salmon is waiting for me in Puget Sound!

Question for you: You mentioned using a whole bunch of resin. How much resin did you use on the deck itself? How many layers and what type of glass did you go with? I'm pricing this stuff and it's not cheap.

again...thank you to everyone so far. I'm really glad I found this place so soon after buying a project boat. Lot's of helpful people here.

 

[coolbri70]

Re: 1968 Larson deck help

Re: 1968 Larson deck help

i think i used 3 or 4 gallons on the topside of the deck, i did the whole thing at once batch after batch 1/2 gallon at a time had to work very fast. a friend gifted me 2 big rolls of glass cloth so i pre cut and placed 1 layer cloth 1 csm 1 cloth 1 csm then went from bow to stern dumping and spreading resin with a brush carfully dabbing air bubbles out then sanded it mixed resin with pigment and did a layer of white. the paint isn't perfect but easy to touch up and i'm no perfectionist when it comes to cosmetics it helps that the color is close to the gell underneath so chips or scratches won't show up too bad. used the resin they sell at lowes, it is pre waxed, thats why i had to do it all at once

 

[bp1313]

Re: 1968 Larson deck help

Re: 1968 Larson deck help

Thanks for the info. I just went out and did some more poking around... arghh

The foam on both sides of needs to be replaced. Also...I assumed that the stringers were encased in glass. Mine aren't. The bilge side is all glass, but the hull side is missing the glass. It appears that I'm going to have to rip everthing out and go from scratch. That'll cost a bit more and take some more time...but at least if I do it right I won't have to worry about it as long as I keep the boat.

Any ideas how much pour foam it'll take to fill her up? that stuff aint cheap either. I'm guessing around $600 (at the cheapest) to $1000 to get this deck looking like it should. I'm crossing my fingers that the transom is intact, but that hasn't helped me so far . ahh well...I knew she was a project when I bought her.

Thanks,

 

[bp1313]

Re: 1968 Larson deck help

Re: 1968 Larson deck help

Hey Coolbri,

I was looking a the pictures from your rebuild again. When you removed the bad "stringers"...did you remove all the foam in the boat as well? Mine looks a bit different than yours. I have no bulkheads in mine. Did you add those yourself? I haven't removed all the foam in mine yet, but I was just wondering. Also...any recommendations on whether I keep the same basic design, or go with a more traditional stringer set up? Thanks a bunch.

 

[bp1313]

Re: 1968 Larson deck help

Re: 1968 Larson deck help

So..I've been trying to do whatever I can whenever I can based on my schedule. At this point, the old foam and stringer system are completely gone. I've ground down most of the hull, but still have the side lip left. the lip is almost 1 inch think in spots. It's essentially fiberglass and resin sitting on top of the edge (chine ? correct me if i'm wrong) Should I.... Remove all of what isn't the boat's hull and rebuilt from there... or... clean the lip to 1 inch from the side and fabricate the deck to fit with that? Any thoughts? The reason I ask is because that material is proving to be extremely hard/tedious to remove. it will eat up many sanding pads and my arms at the same time. I'm only worried about getting a good bond from the new glass/poly.

I'll post pics when I have them.

thank you.

 

[coolbri70]

Re: 1968 Larson deck help

Re: 1968 Larson deck help

yes i removed the wet foam, the 1x3 were there before i put it back like it was, the planks rest on top of them, i tabbed them in with fg then poured foam under them. my thinking is when it was built they layed those planks on the 1x3s draped woven over sprayed w/ resin then filled with foam, imo

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: 1968 Larson deck help

Re: 1968 Larson deck help

Pix?

You could try using one of these:

Some remove it for several reasons, I did solely so that when I re-deck the FireFlite, I don't have anything but my own work between the edge of the deck, the PB fillet & the fiberglass tabbing..... Other's leave it for several reasons, often to have a target deck height to match, to prevent an accidental thru hull slice (multitool will reduce it's likelihood, but won't prevent it :doh and because it's more work.

If you read thru some resto threads, you'll see both...





So..... your boat, your choice

 

[bp1313]

Re: 1968 Larson deck help

Re: 1968 Larson deck help

Thanks JB. Here's a pic from a couple days ago.

I'm a couple hours past that now. You can see the lip that runs around the hull. I'll sleep on it some more and decide what I'm going to do later I guess. Thanks for all the help.