1967 IMP Aztec -- Resto Underway again Suggestions please

rrumba

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May 31, 2011
Messages
901
Hello to all,
I have been lurking, reading for the past month or so reading and trying to be the human sponge, but the amount of information available is overwhelming and way to much for this sponge to absorb.

After reading most of the rebuild post, hull extension (amazing job by the way), I decided it was time to get started on my project boat that picked up about 2 years ago. A 20ft 1967 Iola Molded Plastics with a 200 HP, 300 CID Buick (OMC) with an electric shift outdrive. Hold the gasps for just a bit, we will get to that one....

I removed the floor as it had a hole and soft spots. These boats had the floor a bit differently than most. There was plywood then a skin coat of glass about 1/2" total, then there was a pan that had plywood laminated to the pan about another 1/2" that was laid down on top the skin coat for the main sole i guess you would call it. Anyhow, of course the stingers are rotted, the bulkheads have disintegrated and there were no wings for support either. Not a good design for support of the sole in opinion.

As I started to cut out more heading towards the transom, not that far along yet, i decided to check the transom and of course it is shot. Expected that, no big surprise. Now this is where the everything above, the IBoats community thoughts, wisdom, suggestions and POSSIBLE repower comes in....:confused:

The transom dose not go all the way up to meet the cap. It is only about 30" tall and i am not sure how well it is tied into the sides of the hull. This question comes up because of the thought of switching over to a Merc or Volvo if the transom will be able to take the weight and abuse. If i have to redo the transom anyway the obvious thing would be to beef it up and take it higher as well except the transom curves towards the top from where the existing plywood transom ends to the cap so making that curve if i extended it higher would pose another learning opportunity.

After begining i stumbled on several posts about the electric shift OMC setup that i know most do not seem to like, but my original thoughts were to keep her as original as possible. The drive is in good shape as is the intermediate housing. The issue is that i wanted to rebuild the engine, housing and drive to ensure that all the work done on the boat itself that the power plant would not be the an issue. Only problem that i am running into is finding a headset and lower gasket set for the engine, more specifically the stainless head gaskets.

Sorry for the novel here folks but i really do want to make sure i have it all out there so i can get the best suggestions, advice, thoughts etc. My skin is tough and i will not take anything personaly, but i would like to hear what the IBoats community has to say.

I am not to far into it where i have to finish it in order to recover my losses and would rather not go down that road if there is really not a viable option for the power plant. I would love to put the old OMC in again but know that it may not be feasable as well.

So, what does the IBoats community have for input? Ditch it and find another? Do the transom, stringers and sole as i planned on and update the power plant or repair it all and run the OMC setup even though it may cost more for down the road?

It seems that i also have a lot in common with a large number of people here as i also have the "bug" have to have a project of some type going on and the multiple boat sydrome as well.

Now the pics:

Before the tear up

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rrumba

Ensign
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Messages
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Re: 1967 IMP Aztec -- Thoughts and suggestions for Rebuild maybe repower

Re: 1967 IMP Aztec -- Thoughts and suggestions for Rebuild maybe repower

Interior Before pics


Tray sitting on the Sole and part of the sole......



Cleaning her out before the sole is removed



Cutting out the sole
 

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rrumba

Ensign
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Re: 1967 IMP Aztec -- Thoughts and suggestions for Rebuild maybe repower

Re: 1967 IMP Aztec -- Thoughts and suggestions for Rebuild maybe repower

Under the tray and sole.....



Plywood removed



Tray and sole out from the engine compartment forward



The tray
 

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rrumba

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Re: 1967 IMP Aztec -- Thoughts and suggestions for Rebuild maybe repower

Re: 1967 IMP Aztec -- Thoughts and suggestions for Rebuild maybe repower

Engine compartment


Where the transom stops and does not run up to the cap


Here it looks like they made an I beam with the Stringer and this is also where a bulkead was originally. All that remains is it where they glassed only where it met the stringer and not the whole thing


Transom where the seperation begins
 

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ezmobee

Supreme Mariner
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Re: 1967 IMP Aztec -- Thoughts and suggestions for Rebuild maybe repower

Re: 1967 IMP Aztec -- Thoughts and suggestions for Rebuild maybe repower

None of your pics are showing up in the last 3 posts. I can see the ones in the first post.

It is a nice looking boat. However, I really don't think I'd be throwing any time and money into a closed bow with that drive system.
 

rrumba

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May 31, 2011
Messages
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Re: 1967 IMP Aztec -- Thoughts and suggestions for Rebuild maybe repower

Re: 1967 IMP Aztec -- Thoughts and suggestions for Rebuild maybe repower

not sure why the pictures are not showing up. i will try again with just the thumbnails then.
 

rrumba

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May 31, 2011
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Re: 1967 IMP Aztec -- Thoughts and suggestions for Rebuild maybe repower

Re: 1967 IMP Aztec -- Thoughts and suggestions for Rebuild maybe repower

i have gone back and edited the last 3 posts so hopefully they are visible now
 

ezmobee

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Re: 1967 IMP Aztec -- Thoughts and suggestions for Rebuild maybe repower

Re: 1967 IMP Aztec -- Thoughts and suggestions for Rebuild maybe repower

I see the pics fine. That is a neat boat. Kinda makes you want to do silly things like throw a bunch of money at it doesn't it? :D:D:eek:

You've got a lot of the nasty work done already. Nice job. So what are you thinking now? Put the Stringer back in? Find a donor boat with a Mercruiser?
 

rrumba

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Re: 1967 IMP Aztec -- Thoughts and suggestions for Rebuild maybe repower

Re: 1967 IMP Aztec -- Thoughts and suggestions for Rebuild maybe repower

I love the look and style of the boat and other IMP owners have said they cut through waves and wakes with no problems and are heavy. It does make me want to throw money at it which is also why i am looking for others thougths as a sanity check as well. I have done glass work on surfboards, small boats and did a transom, ribs and stringer job on a 67 mahogany lapstrake back home in hawaii so i am not afraid of the work, the money side though YES. :eek::facepalm: I have rebuilt my share of engines and transmissions as well so that is not a problem either.

i was thinking both actually. My concern for the stringer is two fold i guess. if i go with another or the same stringer, I end up where i am now in getting parts for an anitquated power plant.

Since i would have to do the transom anyway swtiching over to another from a donor boat is a very viable option and i have found several around me for 500.00 and under. The concern with ths option is whether the transom is capable of handling the newer setup where the outdrive is using the transom/hull as part of the support for the force instead of the using the stringers as originally designed.

The other option is to scrap her and find something else. :(

i have been able to find the epoxy or poly resin in bulk close to me so that will save on shipping and found 1708 biax for 3.00 a yard i believe it was (clearence) and West Marine says they will match prices for competitors even internet ones as long as they have 1 store front so getting the West system form them would be 313.00 for 5 gals if i remember.

it all comes back to the power plant and transom/hull ability to handle a different setup.

Thoughts, suggestions or any other comments will be greatly appreciated.........
 

rrumba

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Messages
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Re: 1967 IMP Aztec -- Thoughts and suggestions for Rebuild maybe repower

Re: 1967 IMP Aztec -- Thoughts and suggestions for Rebuild maybe repower

boy talk about long winded.............. sorry everyone, i just noticed once it was posted. i will try to keep them shorter.......
 

ezmobee

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Re: 1967 IMP Aztec -- Thoughts and suggestions for Rebuild maybe repower

Re: 1967 IMP Aztec -- Thoughts and suggestions for Rebuild maybe repower

The transom thing sounds like a non-issue to me. The fiberglass is just the skin. Same on any boat (note: gross generalization) it's the plywood that's the strength. Yours is rotted and going to be replaced. So replace it to the Merc specific thickness.

Yes fiberglassin' ain't real cheap but no one said you have to get it all done in a weekend! I didn't restore my boat cuz I enjoyed the work. I did it cuz how else was I going to pay for a nice boat in $100-200 sporadic increments? :p
 

rrumba

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Re: 1967 IMP Aztec -- Thoughts and suggestions for Rebuild maybe repower

Re: 1967 IMP Aztec -- Thoughts and suggestions for Rebuild maybe repower

ezmobee.... Thanks for the replies. thats kind of how my approach is going to go for the few warm months left if I go through with this one. I hope to have the transom, stringers, bulkeads and wings completed before it gets to cold, and if all goes well then also the sole.

I have noticed that people have used other plywood besides marine grade but what would be the best alternative to it? for the stringers would it be better to use a 2x4 or plywood? if plywood, again which would be best? I know others have used PT but have also let it sit and dry for awhile as well and if I move forward and i do not have that time to let it dry out.

Suggestions anyone?
 

ezmobee

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Re: 1967 IMP Aztec -- Thoughts and suggestions for Rebuild maybe repower

Re: 1967 IMP Aztec -- Thoughts and suggestions for Rebuild maybe repower

Marine grade is a superior product no doubt but, many on here are using regular exterior grade. Properly sealed it should last a long time. I believe ply is considered to be stronger than dimensional lumber for stringers.
 

rrumba

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Re: 1967 IMP Aztec -- Thoughts and suggestions for Rebuild maybe repower

Re: 1967 IMP Aztec -- Thoughts and suggestions for Rebuild maybe repower

anyone else have any thoughts or suggestions?
 

goboating

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Feb 7, 2011
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Re: 1967 IMP Aztec -- Thoughts and suggestions for Rebuild maybe repower

Re: 1967 IMP Aztec -- Thoughts and suggestions for Rebuild maybe repower

For the transom work look at friscoboater and his 220 SeaRay. When he got to the transom he spelled it all out and the video was great. Its one thing to tell you about it, but then he goes and shows you how its done. The only thing good about his transom was the fiberglass outer shell. Now it will handle that 454 Mercruizer thats about to go back in the hull. You have a great looking boat, don't despair. The seventh inning stretch of boat restoration hits everyone sooner or later.
 

rrumba

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May 31, 2011
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Re: 1967 IMP Aztec -- Thoughts and suggestions for Rebuild maybe repower

Re: 1967 IMP Aztec -- Thoughts and suggestions for Rebuild maybe repower

Hey GO thanks. I have been through Firsco's string as well and he did an excellent. I have the same with my transom in that the only good thing is the outer skin as well. My other problem, or opportunity for learning is going to be installing the mounting supports for a Mercruiser 5.0 or 5.7 setup along with ensuring the transom will be able to handle the new setup. that is where i will need some help and guidance so i can make it beefy enough to handle the new outdrive haniging off of it instead the old OMC stringer drive.

I am thinking about glassing in some knee suports on the port and starboard hulls that will be epoxied into a "dado" type cut of the new transom and glassing it in to hull and and transom going about 8-12 inches past it on the hull to give it some added strength along with knee supports along the transom to the bottom of the hull as well for some more support probably 2 one on either side of the stringers. Hopefully that will be enough to beef it up. I am hoping that others will chime in with their expert knowledge as well before i get to cutting out the transom.

I have almost got the old engine area cut out and some pics i will be uploading later on today. Right now it's off to West marine as they are having their grand opening so there is a 50.00 off for spending 300.00. The are price matching the 5 gallon epoxy for 316.35 that i found on http://www.shopmaninc.com/epoxy.html so that will bring the epoxy down to under 300.00 for the West 105 Epoxy and no shipping fees.
 

rrumba

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Re: 1967 IMP Aztec -- Thoughts and suggestions for Rebuild maybe repower

Re: 1967 IMP Aztec -- Thoughts and suggestions for Rebuild maybe repower

One question i forgot, is when bedding in the stringers i have seen on here people using "peanut butter", PL premium and some other items. I was under the impression that you wanted to use something flexible or a thin "spacer" if you will, so that you do not create hard spots and take the chance of cracking the hull when hitting a wave or wake. What is the best way of bedding in a stringer?

I have made the decision to keep the boat, just love the way it looks, but convert it to a Mercruiser so now i have to find the specs for the transom for the thickness and engine supports and how to find where to drill the holes and get the pattern for it so i can drill it out. Maybe that is better asked in the engine section. i will try asking that over there.

I will be posting up my layup schedule as I think it should be and would appreciate suppestions on where i am going wrong. this is not the same as a surfboad, so any help, suggestions or criticism is GREATLY APPRECIATED.

Thank you all
 

rrumba

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Messages
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Re: 1967 IMP Aztec -- Thoughts and suggestions for Rebuild maybe repower

Re: 1967 IMP Aztec -- Thoughts and suggestions for Rebuild maybe repower

Looking for some suggestions and recommendations for my layup schedule to see if i am on the right track.

Resin is West System Epoxy with slow cure

Transom:
Need to make it 2" to 2 1/4" for a Merc. Plan on using, in this order, 1/2", 3/4", 1/2" ply. Saturate all surfaces with 2 coats of epoxy, use 8oz CSM between each ply and between the outer skin and first 1/2"ply. Use 1200 biax, 12" for tabbing the edges, then 3 complete coats of 1200 biax overlapping to the hull sides and bottom.

Stringers:
Use 3/4", 1/2", 3/4" plywood. Saturate all surfaces with 2 coats of epoxy and use 8oz csm between the ply. Create new knees from transom to stringers for extra support. these will all be one piece from the transom to the stringer with the stringer joints of all ply offset and joined with a rabbet edge joint. tab to the hull using 1200 biax tape, 6" wide, then 3 wraps with 1200 biax.

Questions:
1. should i create a "T" beam like they had originally for floor support? My thought was yes, so i could epoxy the floor to the support instead of screwing it down.
2. For bedding in the stringers, what would be a good substitute for 5200? My understanding is that you do not want to use the thickened epoxy so there are no hard spots to crack the hull. Is this incorrect thinking?
3. Am i missing anything or is there something i should change?

thanks in advance.


Forgot something. Should i wait until i have everything ready to go before i cut out all of the stringers? will it hurt anything like deform the hull? Also should i put in some cross supports for the beam to prevent the transom from possibly changing?
 

rrumba

Ensign
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May 31, 2011
Messages
901
Re: 1967 IMP Aztec -- Thoughts and suggestions for Rebuild maybe repower

Re: 1967 IMP Aztec -- Thoughts and suggestions for Rebuild maybe repower

can anyone lend an eye to make sure i am on the right path?

another question i just thought of........ if i wanted to finish the boat with gelcoat, i have read that gelcoat will not stick to epoxy and to use poly instead. is there a wasy so seal the epoxy or primer for it so you can put gelcoat over it? I would like to gelcoat the inside and outside as well as the bilge area but if it cannot be laid over the epoxy should i switch to poly instead or use a different type of finish? i lliked the gelcoat as i can be colored/tinted.
 

rrumba

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Messages
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Re: 1967 IMP Aztec -- Thoughts and suggestions for Rebuild maybe repower

Re: 1967 IMP Aztec -- Thoughts and suggestions for Rebuild maybe repower

[/COLOR]Some modifications:

Should i use Epoxy or Poly since i want to gelcoat inside and out?


Transom:
Need to make it 2" to 2 1/4" for a Merc. Plan on using, in this order, 1/2", 3/4", 1/2" ply. Saturate all surfaces with 2 coats of epoxy, (Should this be thinned Epoxy?) , use 1.5oz CSM between each ply and between the outer skin and first 1/2"ply. Use 1200 biax,12" for tabbing the edges, then 3 complete coats of 1200 biax overlapping to the hull sides and bottom. does it make a big difference if i use 1200, 1208, 1708 here for the skin?

Stringers:
Use 3/4", 1/2", 3/4" plywood. Saturate all surfaces with 2 coats of epoxy, (Should this be thinned Epoxy?) and use 1.5oz csm between the ply. Create new knees from transom to stringers for extra support. these will all be one piece from the transom to the stringer with the stringer joints of all ply offset and joined with a rabbet edge joint. tab to the hull using 1200 biax tape, 6" wide, then 3 wraps with 1200 biax.

Questions:
1. should i create a "T" beam like they had originally for floor support? My thought was yes, so i could epoxy the floor to the support using peanut butter instead of screwing it down.
2. For bedding in the stringers, what would be a good substitute for 5200? My understanding is that you do not want to use the thickened epoxy so there are no hard spots to crack the hull. Is this incorrect thinking? would 1/8" or 1/4" foam strips of some type work?
3. Am i missing anything or is there something i should change?

thanks in advance.


Forgot something. Should i wait until i have everything ready to go before i cut out all of the stringers? will it hurt anything like deform the hull? Also should i put in some cross supports for the beam to prevent the transom from possibly changing?
 
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