1961 Johnson Sea Horse RDS 23: Help

[WesMason]

Hello All,

I am in the final stretch of a restoration project on a '62 Starcraft with a 40hp Electric Sea Horse OB, Model RDS 23, s/n 2192397.

The engine hasn't run since 1992. It has compression (not sure how much yet), the carb aspirates, and the motor turns when I turn the key.

TO DATE:
Replaced both control cables
Pulled apart control box, cleaned, degreased, and re-lubed all moving parts
New Impeller, lubed lower unit.
BOUGHT carb kit (not installed yet)

Ok...first problem: Dropped lower unit, replaced impeller (old one was still very flexible, so saving as backup). I can't get the shift rod connector back together properly. If I losen the bottom nut/bolt too much for the shaft to slip in then I can't get the nut on the back to "grab" to tighten. If I tighten it enough to "grab" then I can't get the shaft into the connector.

Ideas? Thanks in advance!

Wes

 

[WesMason]

Re: 1961 Johnson Sea Horse RDS 23: Help

Found a couple more threads discussing the relacement of impellers. I am now confused as to how I should have dealt with the brass connector.

My local shop said to leave the top bolt alone and only losen the bottom so the connecting shaft would lide back in. Is that correct?

There is a trick to this...I just haven't found it.

 

[Xcusme]

Re: 1961 Johnson Sea Horse RDS 23: Help

I can't get the shift rod connector back together properly. If I losen the bottom nut/bolt too much for the shaft to slip in then I can't get the nut on the back to "grab" to tighten. If I tighten it enough to "grab" then I can't get the shaft into the connector.

Ideas? Thanks in advance!

Wes

Remove the bolt and nut completely, then insert the shaft. The bolt will pass through the rod (at the notch), replace nut and tighten.

 

[Sea18Horse]

Re: 1961 Johnson Sea Horse RDS 23: Help

I'm no expert on these but I was under the impression that the connector has no nut on the back. The bolt just threads into the brass connector. That's why you have to be careful not to over tighten. Because the threads could pull out easily. Perhaps someone has already done that.

Or am I completely off base again.

Cheers.................Todd

 

[tmcalavy]

Re: 1961 Johnson Sea Horse RDS 23: Help

Have a flashlight handy. The notch in the shift shaft has to be aligned just right, if you miss it you can strip the threads on the bolt and then it's new connector time. Wiggle the shift lever to get the notch aligned just right.

 

[WesMason]

Re: 1961 Johnson Sea Horse RDS 23: Help

Remove the bolt and nut completely, then insert the shaft. The bolt will pass through the rod (at the notch), replace nut and tighten.

I did that initially but the nut wouldn't stay put ot tighten and just spun. Let me clarify: I left enough wiggle to allow the shaft to slide into the connector. It was once I started ot tighten that I couldn't get the nut and bolt to tighten. It just spun.

NEXT: If I put enough "squeeze on the bolt/nut (prior to sliding the unit back in), the opening on the connector isn't big enough to accept the shaft end.

...an of course there is NO WAY to get behind the nut with anything because of space.

 

[WesMason]

Re: 1961 Johnson Sea Horse RDS 23: Help

I'm no expert on these but I was under the impression that the connector has no nut on the back. The bolt just threads into the brass connector. That's why you have to be careful not to over tighten. Because the threads could pull out easily. Perhaps someone has already done that.

Or am I completely off base again.

Cheers.................Todd

Todd - I wish they had threaded the brass connector. That would make this much easier. My connector has a bolt, washer, and nut. The space behind the nut is not accessible once the lower unit is up and in place.

 

[R.Johnson]

Re: 1961 Johnson Sea Horse RDS 23: Help

That is a 1/4-28 thread in a brass connector, it will strip quite easily. There is no nut used on this connector as been stated. The bolt must be removed, the rod put in place, then install the bolt, and tighten.

 

[WesMason]

Re: 1961 Johnson Sea Horse RDS 23: Help

That is a 1/4-28 thread in a brass connector, it will strip quite easily. There is no nut used on this connector as been stated. The bolt must be removed, the rod put in place, then install the bolt, and tighten.

There is a nut on this connector, and there is no thread.

But, just so I have covered every base, I am talking about the "lower" bolt/nut and not the "upper". I was instructed by my local shop to losen the lower, not the upper, in order to remove the lower unit...which I did.

Should I have losened the "upper" bolt on the connector? Is that the one without the bolt? If that is the case then it seems like I might have a difficult time reaching that bolt through the opening...maybe if it were in reverse.

 

[R.Johnson]

Re: 1961 Johnson Sea Horse RDS 23: Help

If there is a nut on this connector , then it has been stripped out. Putting a nut on a bolt through that little side hole may just take awhile. Someone has proved it can be done.

 

[KirbyE]

Re: 1961 Johnson Sea Horse RDS 23: Help

It's easy to see / reach / install with the rear midsection cover off. Working through the small access hatch is too difficult.

 

[WesMason]

Re: 1961 Johnson Sea Horse RDS 23: Help

It's easy to see / reach / install with the rear midsection cover off. Working through the small access hatch is too difficult.

Kriby - Agreed, however, the access hatc is the only way I can to get to anything once the lower unit is up high enough to engage the shaft to the connector

If there is a nut on this connector , then it has been stripped out. Putting a nut on a bolt through that little side hole may just take awhile. Someone has proved it can be done.

RJ - You are right...and that is just an ugly truth. Someonw has proved it can be done. Uhg.

I suppose one other approach might be to get a new connector. My guess is that it may take more time to find that than it would to keep trying with the current set up. I keep hoping someone will chime in with a brilliant idea/answer. I'm hopelessly optimistic

 

[CATransplant]

Re: 1961 Johnson Sea Horse RDS 23: Help

Stripped threads on those connectors is quite common. Of course, the proper thing to do is to replace the connector. They're still available as new parts. If you have a long shaft motor, you're going to be shocked at how much that 6" long piece of brass costs, though, and replacement on the long version requires some very serious disassembly of the outboard.

Short shaft shift shaft connector: 0303794 Price about $16.50
Long shaft shift shaft connector: 0304081 Price about $70.00

You can order them at any Evinrude dealer or on the net at:

http://shop2.evinrude.com/ext/index.aspx?s1=bf6ad09c53cead335fcfd8a6471c0f7f

Alternative:

There is a way to fix these with an oversized cap screw, but it's not an authorized repair, by any means.

I did fix one that stripped this way. You do it at your own risk, though:

1. With lower unit off, drill the rear hole on the connector (where the threads were) out to 1/4", removing all the threads.
2. Drill the outer hole in the connector to 5/16", being careful not to drill the back side.
3. Tap the rear hole with a 5/16" tap. Lubricate well, because taps like to stick in brass.
4. With a dremel and a 5/16" diameter round stone, carefully enlarge the groove on the shift shaft to just a 5/16" profile. Don't remove any more metal than you absolutely must! Frankly, I just did the side of the shift shaft where the bolt would pass by.
4. Re-install the lower unit and make very, very sure the groove lines up with the hole before re-inserting a proper length 5/16" cap screw. (Note: you can find 5/16" cap screws with a 7/16" hex head at auto parts stores. This makes it easier)

Always be careful after doing this. Don't overtighten and strip the threads. You've gone as large as you can go.

Again, this is not the official way to do this repair. It worked on mine, and the fix lasted for a long long time, and was that way when I sold the outboard.

 

[Xcusme]

Re: 1961 Johnson Sea Horse RDS 23: Help

A fix that comes to mind would be to drill the back side to 5/16" as CATransplant suggests, but solder or braze a brass nut to the backside of the connector.....and leave the shift shaft as is...

 

[R.Johnson]

Re: 1961 Johnson Sea Horse RDS 23: Help

That is a 1/4-28 thread, run in a 1/4-20 tap, which is a very common size, and it should hold. I've done this many times.

 

[WesMason]

Re: 1961 Johnson Sea Horse RDS 23: Help

Stripped threads on those connectors is quite common. Of course, the proper thing to do is to replace the connector. They're still available as new parts. If you have a long shaft motor, you're going to be shocked at how much that 6" long piece of brass costs, though, and replacement on the long version requires some very serious disassembly of the outboard.

Short shaft shift shaft connector: 0303794 Price about $16.50
Long shaft shift shaft connector: 0304081 Price about $70.00

You can order them at any Evinrude dealer or on the net at:

http://shop2.evinrude.com/ext/index.aspx?s1=bf6ad09c53cead335fcfd8a6471c0f7f

Alternative:

There is a way to fix these with an oversized cap screw, but it's not an authorized repair, by any means.

I did fix one that stripped this way. You do it at your own risk, though:

1. With lower unit off, drill the rear hole on the connector (where the threads were) out to 1/4", removing all the threads.
2. Drill the outer hole in the connector to 5/16", being careful not to drill the back side.
3. Tap the rear hole with a 5/16" tap. Lubricate well, because taps like to stick in brass.
4. With a dremel and a 5/16" diameter round stone, carefully enlarge the groove on the shift shaft to just a 5/16" profile. Don't remove any more metal than you absolutely must! Frankly, I just did the side of the shift shaft where the bolt would pass by.
4. Re-install the lower unit and make very, very sure the groove lines up with the hole before re-inserting a proper length 5/16" cap screw. (Note: you can find 5/16" cap screws with a 7/16" hex head at auto parts stores. This makes it easier)

Always be careful after doing this. Don't overtighten and strip the threads. You've gone as large as you can go.

Again, this is not the official way to do this repair. It worked on mine, and the fix lasted for a long long time, and was that way when I sold the outboard.

That is an amazing solution. I can't say that I am that confident in my skills to execute it though.

That is a 1/4-28 thread, run in a 1/4-20 tap, which is a very common size, and it should hold. I've done this many times.

Bingo! quick and dirty, I like it. It sounds like I need to be careful over-tapping.

THANK YOU! I'll let you know how it turns out. I'm going to try it tonight.

Wes

 

[WesMason]

Re: 1961 Johnson Sea Horse RDS 23: Help

I took a much closer look at the condition of the brass connector after this discussion only to find that I was a bit too late in applying the over-tapping solution. The threads were completely stripped out and it looked as though someone had already tried that method...and managed to foul that as well.

I went back to making the nut/bolt solution work. With some careful, and patient work, the shaft seems to be connected with a reasonable amount of torque on the nut/bolt. My concern is with the shake & rattle the motor will produce losening the nut/bolt.

Has anyone had success using loctite or similar to keep things in place. As an former Harley Davidson owner, that stuff was my best friend.

Thoughts?

 

[WesMason]

Re: 1961 Johnson Sea Horse RDS 23: Help

Motor is runing strong now. New fuel line, tank, carb kit, and a thorough flush. One thing I learned the hard way is that these motors SUCK DOWN gas and if you don't have a decent enough breather on your tank you'll starve the engine in about 30 seconds.

QUESTION: The starter gave out. Pull starting works ok...but I'd like to have my shoulder remaining after the summer. ANY ideas on getting this replaced/rebuilt, etc...?

Craigslist is very limited/nothing when it comes to these old motors

Thank you

Wes