1989 Four Winns 160 Restoration With Pics

Robert4Winns

Petty Officer 2nd Class
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Oct 28, 2009
Messages
146
Re: 1989 Four Winns 160 Restoration With Pics

I don't believe the floor wood is rotted under the fiberglass, but the floor is really out of level. It rolls with peaks and valleys of about 1/2" maximum. I'm thinking I'll sand it, apply new fiberglass, apply gelcoat, apply Kiwi Grip. I'm wondering if I should just replace the wood...
Congrats on getting the transom done. My deck has some variation too. It is a bit higher between the stringers, like the foam pushed it up a when it expanded. When I replace it I will make sure it is flat. 1/2" variation in your deck sounds like a lot. It would drive me crazy. I would think about just replacing the deck.
 

Robert4Winns

Petty Officer 2nd Class
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Oct 28, 2009
Messages
146
Re: 1989 Four Winns 160 Restoration With Pics

Well it has been too long since I have posted any updates on my project. I have made some progress, but not as much as I had hoped I would by this time. I got the old wood out of the transom and got it down to the outer fiberglass skin. I also repaired the hole I chiseled through the gelcoat and also patched the existing holes from the small step and ladder since I will be installing something else. I also patched a hole from a light that was mounted in the transom since if I reinstall it I will move it to a different location. Although I am primarily using epoxy for this project, I patched the holes with poly resin. Basically I wanted a the complete outer skin of the transom to be poly so I can apply gelcoat from the outside without having problems trying to apply it over epoxy bonding. Unfortunately I do not have any photos of this part.

I glued up the plywood for the transom suing 2 layers of 1/2? and one layer of 5/8? to get the appropriate thickness. I used thickened epoxy to laminate the plywood. It took a lot more than I expected. Each layer took over a quart of resin, which I thickened with approximate equal parts of cabosil and wood flour. I clamped the plywood using as many clamps as I could lay my hands on. The work surface I used was two solid core doors, which were fully supported and dead flat so I would be sure the core would end up flat.
9601.jpg


After trying to test fit a template for the transom, I quickly discovered that there was no way I was going to get the new plywood in there without taking the cap off. So I took off the rub rail and about a million screws around the boat and lifted off the cap using some cargo straps secured to a beam and the ceiling of my garage. I just went around raising each strap a little bit at a time. I am doing all of this work alone and didn?t have another place to put the cap so this was the way that made the most sense to me.
9600.jpg


With the cap off it was not a problem fitting in the new plywood core and gluing it in place with thickened epoxy. I had to mix it up in multiple batches, but since I am using epoxy from US Composites with the medium hardener I had plenty of working time. I just spread each batch out on the transom so it would not start to harden in the pot while I mixed up the next batch. It was a real mess and I had my hands full so I don?t have any photos while I was doing it, but here is the plywood glued in.
9602.jpg


Then I used the same thickened epoxy (PB) to fill the gap and make a fillet around the perimeter.
9603.jpg


After that PB had plenty of time to cure I cleaned up the fillet in a few places and glassed the plywood to the hull. First I put down a layer of 6? 1708 biax followed by layer of 11? biax without mat and then covered the entire thing with 1708 overlaping the prior layers. I did it wet on wet, all in one session.
Does this sound like enough layers or do I need to add more?
9604.jpg


I had to mix up so many batches of epoxy I lost track of how many it took. There is a big difference using the biax without the mat. It wets out so much easier and takes a lot less resin.
There are two spots that I couldn't get it to lay down on the hull where there is a chine(?) on each side. Before laying the glass I filled it in a bit, but not enough so there is an air pocket on each side about 6" from the transom.

Next I am going to start tearing out the floor and stringers.
 

Juniinc

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Jan 16, 2010
Messages
221
Re: 1989 Four Winns 160 Restoration With Pics

I have a Fourwinns too, so I've been following your thread Robert.
Nice work man! glad to see she is coming along.
 

Robert4Winns

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Oct 28, 2009
Messages
146
Re: 1989 Four Winns 160 Restoration With Pics

I have a Fourwinns too, so I've been following your thread Robert.
Nice work man! glad to see she is coming along.

Thanks Juniic, It is good to know someone is watching.
I've been following your thread as well. Looks like a nice project. I like the idea of the wrap around lounge seat. I wish I could do that but I don't think I could do that with the limited space I have.
It is good that you don't have to replace your stringers.
 

BigBoatinOkie

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
May 28, 2009
Messages
763
Re: 1989 Four Winns 160 Restoration With Pics

Nice transom work. I was wandering how many layers of glass is sufficient myself. The inner skin on my old transom was about 1/8 in. thick. I was planning on using one layer of biax with mat backing, and a layer of 6 oz cloth. Maybe that's excessive? Anyway, keep up the good work. That's a sweet looking boat. If you stay a step ahead of me, then I can just follow your lead.:D
 

Robert4Winns

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Oct 28, 2009
Messages
146
Re: 1989 Four Winns 160 Restoration With Pics

Nice transom work. I was wandering how many layers of glass is sufficient myself. The inner skin on my old transom was about 1/8 in. thick. I was planning on using one layer of biax with mat backing, and a layer of 6 oz cloth. Maybe that's excessive? Anyway, keep up the good work. That's a sweet looking boat. If you stay a step ahead of me, then I can just follow your lead.:D

Thanks BigBoatinOkie. My transom had no where near 1/8" of glass on the inside. It looked like they added just one layer of mat to make it waterproof. It was thicker around the edge where it met the hull, but that was only mat. Since I am using biax and epoxy I'm sure it will be stronger than what was there originally.

How much glass you use in the middle of the transom, as opposed to the perimiter, may be dictated by the thickness you need for your drive. I may need to add a bit there to get the 2" - 2 1/8" I need. I used 1 5/8" of wood as opposed to 1 1/2" to get it as close as I could.

I'll try to stay ahead of you with my posts, but it is taking me longer than I planned.
 

MountaineerMiner

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Mar 9, 2010
Messages
146
Re: 1989 Four Winns 160 Restoration With Pics

I just finished looking over your rebuild progress and your right...our setups look very similar. Is that the 3.0 Chevy on a Cobra drive? Also you mentioned needing 2" - 2 1/8" transom thickness, when I measured mine prior to demo it was only 1 7/8" thick. Was this a spec listed in the manual, or do you think it is a variation between the 3.0 Chevy and the 2.3 Ford that is in my craft (im a little jealous btw...im a GM guy and have to work on a Ford)?

Mike
 

Robert4Winns

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Oct 28, 2009
Messages
146
Re: 1989 Four Winns 160 Restoration With Pics

I just finished looking over your rebuild progress and your right...our setups look very similar. Is that the 3.0 Chevy on a Cobra drive? Also you mentioned needing 2" - 2 1/8" transom thickness, when I measured mine prior to demo it was only 1 7/8" thick. Was this a spec listed in the manual, or do you think it is a variation between the 3.0 Chevy and the 2.3 Ford that is in my craft (im a little jealous btw...im a GM guy and have to work on a Ford)?

Mike

I do have the 3.0 liter OMC Cobra. I think the engine is pretty easy to work on, which is nice for my first boat.
My original transom was 2". I don't remember where I found the spec for the transom thickness, but I will check my manual to confirm it. I have seen threads on this forum where people have had to add an extra 1/4' when they use two 3/4' pieces of ply. I didn't want to have to do that so I used 1 5/8" of wood.
I think both engines have the same drive and transom mount so I would bet the spec would be the same. I'll see if I can confirm though.
 

MountaineerMiner

Petty Officer 2nd Class
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Mar 9, 2010
Messages
146
Re: 1989 Four Winns 160 Restoration With Pics

Since the original transom was pretty rotted when I measured it maybe it was squished in an 1/8" or so from being 22 years old.

Mike
 

Robert4Winns

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Oct 28, 2009
Messages
146
Re: 1989 Four Winns 160 Restoration With Pics

Since the original transom was pretty rotted when I measured it maybe it was squished in an 1/8" or so from being 22 years old.

Mike

I know mine was squished on the bottom due to the rot and the fact that the bolts had been tightened to try and stop a leak, which turned out to be coming in aroung the garboard drain and up through the wood to the transom hole. It was solid at the top of the drive hole and that is where I measured it at 2".
I checked my manual and cna't find anything regarding transom thickness. If the bolts on yours were tight and the drive shaft did not bottom out you could probably go back with the same thickness, but I would make it 2" just to be sure since that is the standard.
 

boatingnovice

Recruit
Joined
Feb 21, 2010
Messages
3
Re: 1989 Four Winns 160 Restoration With Pics

Looks like your doing great Robert. The pictures and explanations are great.
Mark
 

ltjag101

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Apr 18, 2010
Messages
37
Re: 1989 Four Winns 160 Restoration With Pics

nice boat robert like all the posts and am wondering if you have gotten the boat out on the water this year i am starting a floor replacement on my 82 celebrity v210 cuddy. (free Boat) the previos owner laid house carpet in it and it held water and rotted the floor so i hope that is where the rot stoped but who know i will start a new tread when i get about half way done so i can post lots of pics and video links of problems and triumphs keep up the good work and happy boating:cool:
 

solar7647

Lieutenant Junior Grade
Joined
Apr 23, 2009
Messages
1,218
Re: 1989 Four Winns 160 Restoration With Pics

Your moving along good! Its nice to see someone else bringing an old FourWinns back to life!!

I was begining to think I was the only one! I am working resurrecting A 1987 Sundowner......It will look more like a 80s liberator when I am done though!!:D

I was feeling like an alien in the world of StarCraft!!!:D:D

Keep up the good work, I will be dropping in and watching your progress!
 

Robert4Winns

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Oct 28, 2009
Messages
146
Re: 1989 Four Winns 160 Restoration With Pics

nice boat robert like all the posts and am wondering if you have gotten the boat out on the water this year i am starting a floor replacement on my 82 celebrity v210 cuddy. (free Boat) the previos owner laid house carpet in it and it held water and rotted the floor so i hope that is where the rot stoped but who know i will start a new tread when i get about half way done so i can post lots of pics and video links of problems and triumphs keep up the good work and happy boating:cool:

Thanks. I hope to get it ready for the lake by the time my kids are out of school for the summer. But, it has been slow going.
Good luck on your project. If you only have to replace the deck that would be nice, but I would check out the transom and stringers very well on a boat that old, especially with a PO that would put in house carpet. Who knows what else was repaired incorrectly. I'll be watching for your thread.
 

Robert4Winns

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Oct 28, 2009
Messages
146
Re: 1989 Four Winns 160 Restoration With Pics

Your moving along good! Its nice to see someone else bringing an old FourWinns back to life!!

I was begining to think I was the only one! I am working resurrecting A 1987 Sundowner......It will look more like a 80s liberator when I am done though!!:D

I was feeling like an alien in the world of StarCraft!!!:D:D

Keep up the good work, I will be dropping in and watching your progress!

Thanks solar7647. I too like to see other 4Winns on this forum. I have been following yours; you are doing a great job. Very nice that you had a solid transom.

I really need to post some new photos, but it is hard to take photos when I am grinding alone. The good news is I have removed the rotten stringers and cross braces and finished grinding the hull to replace them. I will have a bit of grinding for the deck, but that shouldn't be so bad.

I replaced the center stringer before I cut out the main stringers to try and maintain the shape of the hull. I also plan on putting the cap back on before I tab in the new stringers. First I need to clean up a lot of dust. I'll try to get some more pictures up soon.
 

Robert4Winns

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Oct 28, 2009
Messages
146
Re: 1989 Four Winns 160 Restoration With Pics

Looks like your doing great Robert. The pictures and explanations are great.
Mark

Thanks Mark.

It has been a while since I have posted any photos. I have been progressing slow because of other demands on my time, but I have made progress. After getting the transom replaced, it was time to cut out the rotten wood under the deck and grind. After the grinding the transom made such a mess of my garage I decided that for this next phase of demolition I would try to contain the dust. So I put some plastic drop cloths over the cap, which is hanging from the ceiling above the hull, and draping some more down over the hull. This contained the dust pretty well in the hull.

9639.jpg


I don?t have any photos of the stringers or the cross members, but they were wet and rotten at the bottom but otherwise fairly solid in the top half. There are 5 stringers on this boat. The two on each side are full height, meaning that they support the deck. The center stringer is only about 6? at the back and supports the bottom of the ski locker and the fuel tank compartment, which are about 10? below the deck. The large stringers (numbers 2 &4 if you count from one side to the other) and the cross members were notched so they interlocked and there was no glass or resin in between them. So when one got wet, they all got wet. The outer stringers were not installed this way and are still dry and solid; so I will be leaving them in place.

The center stringer was wet, but still solid. I cut it out in one piece and ground down the hull there so I could put in the new center stringer before cutting out the other stringers. The original one was ?? thick solid lumber. I replaced it with two layers of 1/2? ply laminated together for a thickness of 1?. I bedded it in with PL Premium, but have not glassed it in yet.
9645.jpg


When I removed the front engine mount I was surprised how rotten it was.
9643.jpg

It was made of progressively wider pieces of plywood which were not even cut at an angle to fit the hull. There was also no filler or material in the gaps. In other words there were triangular shaped voids and the mount was supported by the edges of the plywood on the hull and the glass connecting to the hull at the back and the stringers on the sides. The glass was very thick and had been supporting the engine for some time.

After removing the rotten wood, I started grinding. Here is a shot of the hull with the rotten wood out and some of the grinding done but before I had all of the grinding done.
9641.jpg


I can see why it is important to grind out all the old tabbing. In the bow, between the stringers and floor of the ski locker I was able to get a screw driver under the tabbing and pry up and peel off a bunch of the old tabbing. You can see here how the tabbing is easy to separate from the hull.
9640.jpg


I have since finished grinding off the old tabbing and am preparing the new stringers. I?ll try to get some more photos up soon.
 

solar7647

Lieutenant Junior Grade
Joined
Apr 23, 2009
Messages
1,218
Re: 1989 Four Winns 160 Restoration With Pics

I know how you feel doing everything by your self! I have done all of mine alone but have been able to recruit help a few times in occasion that call for four hands.

New photos look good!

That motor mount looks pretty tore up. Mine has the same type front mount and it was 100% water logged! I could push on it with my hands and water would ooz out!

I picked up a good tip on the forum though you may be interested in, when you drill the holes in the new one you fill the holes with warm resin and the wood will soak the resin up and it will help keep water from getting to the wood through the bolts holes.

I got lucky doing my stringers, the outer side stringers are still strong so i only had to do the middle ones and they only went as far as the dividing wall for the cabin, they changed past that and where still good.
Looking good!
 

Robert4Winns

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Oct 28, 2009
Messages
146
Re: 1989 Four Winns 160 Restoration With Pics

I know how you feel doing everything by your self! I have done all of mine alone but have been able to recruit help a few times in occasion that call for four hands.

New photos look good!

That motor mount looks pretty tore up. Mine has the same type front mount and it was 100% water logged! I could push on it with my hands and water would ooz out!

I picked up a good tip on the forum though you may be interested in, when you drill the holes in the new one you fill the holes with warm resin and the wood will soak the resin up and it will help keep water from getting to the wood through the bolts holes.

I got lucky doing my stringers, the outer side stringers are still strong so i only had to do the middle ones and they only went as far as the dividing wall for the cabin, they changed past that and where still good.
Looking good!

Thanks. I have seen that tip here as well. I plan on over-drilling all of my holes and filling with thickened epoxy to prevent the wood from getting wet again, or at least delay it for another 20 years.

Your new engine mount looks nice and solid. What did you make it out of and what did you use to bed it in?

I thought I might not have to replace the whole stringers, but wasn't so lucky.
 

ftl900

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Aug 6, 2009
Messages
157
Re: 1989 Four Winns 160 Restoration With Pics

Thanks Juniic, It is good to know someone is watching.

It's looking really good, Robert. I have a renewed interest since finding loose motor mount bolts on the port side.

I saw a post somewhere making a transom or motor mounts or some other part that fits against the hull, and someone suggested to make a pattern by hot-gluing ice cream sticks together. Sounded silly at first, but the more I thought about it, the more it seemed it might work really well.

I am going to do exploratory surgery, but I'm sure it's not going to be simply a case of stripped out bolt holes. The boat is a 1988, so I'm guessing it's about due for an overhaul. This will all be new to me- it's boat #4, but one was a new boat, and I've never done anything other than routine maintenance on any of them, so it's gonna be a real 'experience'.

ex?pe?ri?ence  /ik-speer-ee-uhns noun, verb,-enced, -enc?ing. ?noun

1. knowledge or practical wisdom gained from what one has observed, encountered, or undergone.

2. what you got when you didn't get what you wanted.
 
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