year round school???

Status
Not open for further replies.

aspeck

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
May 29, 2003
Messages
19,698
Re: year round school???

Let's make sure we keep this thread to school, pros and cons about year round school, and NOT about teacher bashing or politics. Thanks.

And ngt, and others who might be getting harassing PM's, there is an "ignore" setting where you can add members you want to ignore. Once added, you will not get PM's from them any more. This is the easiest way to deal with bullies ... ignore them.
 

ngt

Master Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Feb 26, 2009
Messages
874
Re: year round school???

If someone is that angry that they need too yell at me in a pm, maybe they need the 11 week break to get their head straight, lol. Next time, I'll just delete the pm and keep it to myself. I'd rather not ignore someone and miss out on the public conversation.
________________________________________________________________________________________
Back On Topic:

As for year round school. What are the benefits? Less of a break helps kids retain information from the year prior. I get that. I see it every year and we review the prior year's concepts for 3 weeks because of it. I still think having a month off 3 times, will result in a week of review after each month, which ends up being three weeks of review anyways. We do a week of review after winter break and that's only 2 weeks.

So what other benefits does a year round school give kids?

One negative we've talked about in our district with our parent club is that working parents of younger kids will have to find full time daycare during times of the year where summer camps and summer programs aren't available. Daycare is expensive.
 

WIMUSKY

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Sep 26, 2009
Messages
20,429
Re: year round school???

Also, a lot of businesses depend on kids for summer help. That can be anything from resorts to McDonalds......
 

aspeck

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
May 29, 2003
Messages
19,698
Re: year round school???

Also, a lot of businesses depend on kids for summer help. That can be anything from resorts to McDonalds......

But if it were year round school, those places wouldn't be as busy, except for the break times of the students.

Camps would have a hard time because of the irregularity of the break times between school districts. Now it is hard for Camps in Early June and Late August. Generally, PA schools end the first or second week in June and go back the last week in August - first week of September. KY schools get out the middle of May and go back the middle of August. AZ schools get out ? but go back the first or second week of August. Basically have about 6 weeks when almost everyone is off school.
 

bruceb58

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Mar 5, 2006
Messages
30,797
Re: year round school???

Good article showing pros and cons
http://www.teacherscount.org/issues/yearround/index.shtml

He also points out that, despite the evidence in support of year-round education, many school districts have not implemented the policy due to the resistance of teachers’ unions and the summer employment industry, which relies on young labor.

If its really better for the students, then it should be done that way. That should be the top priority. Not what's best for camps, not what's best for McDonalds and not what's best for...(I will leave the last one out)
 

bassman284

Commander
Joined
Jun 24, 2006
Messages
2,840
Re: year round school???

Iowa law requires that classes may begin no earlier than a day during the calendar week in which September 1 falls unless September 1 is a Sunday. In that case, classes may begin any day during the week before September 1. This was to make sure school didn't start before the State Fair was over which used to be the Sunday a week before Labor Day.

Virtually all school districts in Iowa applie for and receive waivers to start earlier, generally about the middle of the 3rd week of August, so a few years ago, the state fair dates were shifted to a week earlier. A lot of folks are pushing to move the school start date after Labor Day with no waivers allowed.
 

ngt

Master Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Feb 26, 2009
Messages
874

bruceb58

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Mar 5, 2006
Messages
30,797
Re: year round school???

How about what's best for parents? Do they matter?
Not as much as students. Our students need all the help they can get. Obviously, what schools are doing right now isn't working.

Year round schools affect parents negatively and positively depending on the situation and how the schedule rolls out.
 

emoney

Commander
Joined
Jul 19, 2010
Messages
2,551
Re: year round school???

Plus, there have been tons of studies that show the average family will NOT spend any more money on supervision of their children will the amount of money they currently spend on "camps et al" during those long summer months.

NGT, even you said, "It takes me 6 weeks to get my kids back....". That statement alone is an argument in the "pro-year-round" camp, btw.

When it comes to "improving education" however, the single, biggest change that needs to take place is parental involvement. The thing that separates an illiterate child and an exceptional learner is most often the amount of focus and importance placed on education at the family level. Time after time my wife can send home "notes" to parents that never get answered, to the point that she's gone to an automated text messaging system as the only reliable way to communicate with them. Kids that have homework and receive "instructional help" (not the kind where you do the work for them, lol) and encouragement to succeed from their parents will always and do score better. My wife and I both had parents that said to us respectively, "Well, I did ok without going to college". Thankfully, my wife took that as a challenge, while I took it as an ok to drop out, a decision I still regret although too lazy to rectify.
 

halfmoa

Ensign
Joined
Aug 19, 2011
Messages
955
Re: year round school???

I can't believe for the life of me that no one has posted this, but I learned just about as much during summer break as I did in school. How to operate a tractor, cut down trees, not to sit in tall grass in the evening....on and on and on. Don't tell me "kids don't do that anymore" because mine sure as heck do and I'm far from the only one. Sure, my kids watched their fair share of TV but they're not mindless zombies.

I cannot fathom what a pain in the rear it'd be to schedule child care any more often than I have to because of my kids not being in school. Just about every month there's a holiday or early dismissal. For a lot of people a half day of school = an entire day of missed work = entire day of missed pay. At least with summer break I can plan childcare needs for two and a half months, the kids get a rest for their mind, can be themselves without social judgement, and can just be allowed to be kids, not forced into adulthood. I can tell from my kids homework that their studies are drastically different from mine and they're learning skills at a much earlier age. If they'd take the pressure down a notch or four year around school wouldn't seem as objectionable to me but I don't think a lot of the members here know how difficult school work is. FWIW I'm 32.

Insofar as schood administration....well, if it's anything like my public sector admin goes it probably burns their a** to write paychecks all summer and not get any work done.

You want smarter kids? Pay the teachers a reasonable wage and have the rest of their salary be based on their student's absorbtion of knowledge. Sound stupid? Strike up a conversation with a waitress.....

I'm not even going to get in to the fallacy of homework. My 9 year old has 1-2 hours every night. You know what 1-2 hours of homework does to a 9 year old boy? It makes him hate his teacher, hate his school, and hate his parents for making him do it. I'd send him to school year around if they'd lower the pressure of standardized testing, eliminate homework, and implement my salary plan. My kids would both respond well to those things as well.
 

Summer Fun

Banned
Joined
Mar 2, 2002
Messages
2,251
Re: year round school???

I'd send him to school year around if they'd lower the pressure of standardized testing, eliminate homework,

:facepalm: . I think you should home school him with that thinking. :eek:
 

jkust

Rear Admiral
Joined
Aug 2, 2008
Messages
4,942
Re: year round school???

eliminate homework, ... My kids would both respond well to those things as well.

A couple years ago my son lucked out, he's in elementary school, and got the single teacher in the school that does not believe in homework and gives none the entire school year. Then next year he got the ultra tough teacher who believes in heavy homework and zero excuses. I can say he was not any better off having not had homework.
 

ngt

Master Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Feb 26, 2009
Messages
874
Re: year round school???

NGT, even you said, "It takes me 6 weeks to get my kids back....". That statement alone is an argument in the "pro-year-round" camp, btw.

Now you're just making stuff up, lol. I said 3 weeks. I also said that after a 2 week winter break we still have to review for a week, so after a month, we'd abviously have to review for a week also. Meaning, if you took three 3-4 week breaks off as a year round school, you would have to review for a week each time. Which adds up to the same 3 weeks as we do for the kids going from kinder to first after a full summer. So my statement is saying that having year round school would not change the amount of review needed or the amount of things forgotten over the summer. It's going to be 3 weeks of review either way. Together, or broken up.
 

rockyrude

Lieutenant Junior Grade
Joined
Sep 10, 2007
Messages
1,121
Re: year round school???

Yes, but would the amount of lost information be less after 3 weeks as opposed to 3 months?
 

halfmoa

Ensign
Joined
Aug 19, 2011
Messages
955
Re: year round school???

:facepalm: . I think you should home school him with that thinking. :eek:

Not quite sure what your facepalm and eek face mean, but my wife was going to home school both our kids. Then the cost of goods started to rise, and rise, and rise. Now she's working full time and we're right where we were 6 years ago when the idea first came up.

We're not too far from leaving society as a whole and moving to a commune or starting a small co-op, growing our own food, making due without modern "necessities" and so on.

If I go any further this will be removed...




inb4 locked
 

emoney

Commander
Joined
Jul 19, 2010
Messages
2,551
Re: year round school???

I can't believe noone's referenced this yes, so I'll do it: The movie Idiocrasy is becoming a bit of a reality. If you want to really have a "case" against today's education system, then you need to segregate the kids that are coming from familys that just don't care. The, what I would call "normal" kid, hard working parents with values, is actually gaining in knowledge in large quantity. However, the "overall" number is dropping because the % of the aforementioned families is rapidly increasing.

Think about this: when the majority of posters in this thread were in school, if you can remember say 2nd grade (which I can just barely remember one or 2 things) were you being introduced into writing papers, and sampling fractions and even Algebra? I know that I wasn't. So the kids are being exposed to a ton of information, but they're not retaining and they're getting "passed on" not because the schools don't want to fail them, but because "Momma" runs into the office and DEMANDS her little Johnny moves on to 3rd grade.

You'd be amazed, also, at what some of these kids are exposed to at home at a very young age. Just the other day, the misses witnessed two 7 YEAR OLD GIRLS, arguing over "Who's pawn shop" a local pawn shop is. THere's new excuses for not doing projects like; Well, we were up late because we had to go bail momma's boyfriend out of jail at 2:30am." Or, my mom won't sign the daily involvement planner because she's always asleep (confirmed pill addict). Or even worse......much worse but this is a family forum and it already breaks my heart, no sense in sharing the pain. People, some teachers are assigning homework because it's the ONLY chance a certain kid has at even getting through High School, let alone going to college. Heck, in some cases it's the one thing in life the child has to look forward to and that's completing homework because they get praise from a teacher the next day.

It's disheartening when I hear all the "Today Schools Are............." (negative word filled into the blank) spouted off by someone who hasn't seen the real inside of classroom in a long time, or is so focused on their own lives (and nothing wrong with it), that they haven't noticed the suffering around them. Not to sound like a blackout artist, and I have no idea what the solution is, but when 1st Graders come to school dressed like their heroes, who happen to be the kids from the Hit TV Series, "Jersey Shore", well...something's wrong.
 

ngt

Master Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Feb 26, 2009
Messages
874
Re: year round school???

Yes, but would the amount of lost information be less after 3 weeks as opposed to 3 months?

Yes, you lose more in 3 months than 3-4 weeks, but my students still need a week of review after their 2 week Christmas break. I'm assuming they'll need a week of review after a 3-4 week break. They get 3 weeks of review to catch up after the summer. So, 3 weeks straight after a long summer, or one week after a 3-4 week break, but 3 times a year. Either way, it's 3 weeks of review out of their school year. 3 weeks into this year, my students are right where they were, if not higher than they were academically at the end of Kinder.

As for an insane amount of homework not being good. I agree completely. I was part of a research group in my district and we went over dozens of current homework studies done by anyone from Yale, to other elementary schools. From what we gathered from the studies, we created a district wide homework agreement. Basically grade level + 10 minutes. Kinder = 10 min. 1st = 20 min. etc.. Our sixth graders had been getting 3 hours per night. Now they get 70 minutes and that group of student's test scores actually went up last year after implementing this. (5th graders with 2 - 2 1/2 hours, then as 6th graders with only 70 minutes). May have been the teachers, may have been anything, but it definitely wasn't from a ton of homework because they got far less that year.
 

rockyrude

Lieutenant Junior Grade
Joined
Sep 10, 2007
Messages
1,121
Re: year round school???

Not disagreeing that review is necessary, but lets say for example at the end of 3 months the student loses 20% of last years knowledge, after the review week they are back to 15% of last year. Now same student after 3 weeks loses 10% and after review week is at 5%, is this not a net gain?
 

ngt

Master Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Feb 26, 2009
Messages
874
Re: year round school???

Not disagreeing that review is necessary, but lets say for example at the end of 3 months the student loses 20% of last years knowledge, after the review week they are back to 15% of last year. Now same student after 3 weeks loses 10% and after review week is at 5%, is this not a net gain?

The review period is longer. Think of it as 5% gain per week. -20% for 9-11 weeks, then + 5% x 3 weeks of review = 15% leaving them at -5%. Your 10% loss after 3-4 weeks, and a week of review at + 5%, still leaves the kid at -5%.

Thing is, our scores for math and language arts coming out of Kinder are from a numbers and phonics test given at the end of the year. After my 3 weeks of review, their scores are at or above where they left off at the end of the year prior. Only thing that takes a while to get back is their work ethic.
 

dingbat

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Nov 20, 2001
Messages
17,075
Re: year round school???

Average teacher salary in California is close to $70K and can reach to almost $90K in the bay area. This is for a job that is only for 9 months so that is equivalent to $100K/year.

No wonder California has budget problems.
Here on the east coast we do things a bit different. If you make $70K in 9 months then take off 3 months, you still only have $70K in the bank at the end of 12 months.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top