Would you hire an ex-con?

[treedancer]

Re: Would you hire an ex-con?

Sure I would, I did some s*** when I came out of the Marine Corps way back in the day. Lucked out and didn?t get caught. Now that we have that over with, how about a drug test at pops expense every month?

While we have pop on the hook for the drug test, how abut him also being on the hook for anything that comes up missing and the evidence points at junior. Have them policies in place for at least a six-month probationary period.

 

[sprint7tw]

Re: Would you hire an ex-con?

Bubba, I would hire a ex-con but, I would never hire an employee without a drug test. Drug testing is manatory at my business (2). The applicant pays for the drug test when he starts, We reinburse him if he tests negative. This in itself elimates about 50% of all apps as they know they cannot pass the test. ( some close friends are in this group that I had no idea were users). You would be amazed of the amount of people who take the test and fail it. We probably deal with about 30% of all job apps as real prospective employees. Todays attitude is,. it is none of the employer business what an employee does after hours. The same person who has not been in trouble needs to be tested the same. You at least know that the ex-con is clean at the time of hiring him. Side note for some dumb reason a few years ago we only tested male warehouse workers. We for some reason believed women office workers were all clean. Interesting fact after we started random testing and pre-employment testing female users are as high if not higher than male.
I have hired ex-cons and even work release prisoners with about the same results as people off of the street. Some have worked out some have not. Please, do not believe because you are living in a small town in Mo. that the town does not have a drug problem. Even the football players should be included as potential drug users.
You at least know where you stand with the ex-con.

 

[Guest]

Re: Would you hire an ex-con?

I live in Canada and in my past I have worked with ex-cons and found them for the most part (90%) genuinely wanting do better this time around. With that said I have also seen some that no mater what breaks they get they just can't seem to break that resistance to temptation, that is because they can't find a better alternative to the friends they hang around with as well the poverty mentality that goes with them. I was at one time in the jail ministry (preaching 14yrs) in and out of the jails with a very good friend of mine who at one point in his life was a convict and found out that if you give a person a helping hand to show him how to get better rather then forceing it on him made all the difference in his life. That person also went on to be the pastor of large church and then on to be a full fledged police chaplin. He has since passed on from cancer but even to the end he was still asking me to watch out for his prison people and make sure that they new he was still watching over them. I was in that ministry with him for over 14 years untill my health made it impossible for me to climb stairs to the jails to vist the men, minister and just talk to them BUT most of all having a compationate ear to listen to them without judging was THE most important thing I got from that part of my life.
So what ever way you decide please remember that YOU may be that one person in this younge mans life that makes the difference between him going back or going straight and making everone proud of him. Give him as much encouraging and praise you can for him doing good and try not to make too much out of his stumbles and that will be the difference he will see in you from all others.
Best of luck and please let me know how he does.
All I can do is say please don't prejudge the man before he has a chance to work things out and show that deep down under he is still a hurting person who needs some tender loving hands to help him up and let him be a man once again.

 

[oops!]

Re: Would you hire an ex-con?

Ahh so the threats of "Swimming with the fishes" or "pushing up daisies" could become a reality if this young man screws up You have the resources to make either happen!!

awwwww.......i ran home from work just to get a look at your responce.........(i really wish we had the emotions thingys back)......now im sad....lol

 

[Bob_VT]

Re: Would you hire an ex-con?


:redface:

oh and the new facepalm :facepalm:

 

[NoKlu]

Re: Would you hire an ex-con?

Any time you hire a new employee you never really know what they are doing in there off time. As far as I'm concerned it's nobody's business what you do as long as it's not affecting your work. You don't own these people you just rent them. I agree that turning a kid loose in the big smoke, to fend for himself, almost anything can happen.You know this kids past and his Family. Bring him home, give him a job near his family and the people he grew up with, you might just be saving his life. Turn him loose on the streets again,back with the old crowd, flipping burgers or washing dishes, and you can bet on the outcome. What's the worst that can happen if you do give him a shot? Lose a few power tools? Gain another lousy employee, won't be the first or last time that happens. You can fire him at any time. I'd give it a shot.

 

[jonesg]

Re: Would you hire an ex-con?

What's the worst that can happen if you do give him a shot? Lose a few power tools? Gain another lousy employee, won't be the first or last time that happens. You can fire him at any time. I'd give it a shot.

Losing a few power tools is worse than having the workshop burn down right?
A missing drill is a lot worse than Bubba's wife feeling she's living on a prison farm...only =inside= the fence.
Sure it is.

Is it charitable to want to give the shirt off someone else back ?

 

[aspeck]

Re: Would you hire an ex-con?

Well, it looks like the decision has been taken out of my hands. The sherriff stopped by to chat a bit this morning and to tell me the State of Missouri turned down the kids request to parole back home regardless of having a job lined up or not. I don't know that I agree with their decision, in fact I am certain I don't because he was born and raised here and will always be "home" but, it isn't my decision to make.

I hate to admit this but there is a part of me that is releived I don't have to make this call. I still have no idea which way I would have gone.

Bubba, the fact that you entertained the possibility speaks volumes of your character and concern for others. The final decision is not as important as the consideration. Under the circumstances as presented I don't know what I would have done in your shoes either. But I admire your willingness to look at the possibility. I am sure the kid's father appreciates it also.

 

[ezbtr]

Re: Would you hire an ex-con?

I didnt hire one, but was "given" one to train any way I saw fit, to be my asst./share travel for jobs all over the US, Canada, etc.
After
I got to know him, get past the bs/a kind of chip on his shoulder, he was good to let go unassisted(w/ me for advice, trouble shooting on cell) after 6 mos. He did a great job, still had a bit of anger mgmt I helped him with and excelled, got remarried to a great girl, no more drugs(believe his deal was meth, 2 yrs in jail) and was doing well, we both got laid off maybe 2 yrs later(odd mgmt), and he slid into his old behavior, thrown in jail, fighting, separated, etc. Havent heard much from him lately, but hope he still on meds that he has to take the rest of his life due to drugs....they can choose to turn the right way, but at times can regress to the wrong way - sad...

 

[64osby]

Re: Would you hire an ex-con?

I have a brother who after a life of drinking and drugs finally got caught and spent 3 years with the state. He was released at age 53. There is not a lot of opportunities for someone in his shoes.

Thankfully when he was in he went through the rehab classes and he found religion, a good thing for him.

The last prison he was at had a working dairy farm where he was out all day working the farm, worked his way up to trustee. They gave him a tractor and turned him loose everyday

When he was released he spent about 3-4 months looking for work. The county he's in has 18-20% unemployment. One day he rode his bike 8 miles out to a local dairy farm and found a job. He's been there ever since. Works about 60 hours a week, lives across the street from a church where he is very active. It's been 3 years and all is good.

Proves to me, even someone with a very long history can change and become a useful member of society.

 

[jay_merrill]

Re: Would you hire an ex-con?

Yes, I have. I hired a guy who did three years for dealing drugs. I did not hire him as an "unknown," however. He had been working for a temp agency and we used to use a lot of temp labor. We tried to get the same guys over and over, simply because it resulted in a more efficient work crew. The guy I hired on permanently, was one of the "regs."

He worked hard, showed up on time, etc., plus he was completely honest about his past. Believe it or not, he got shot 5 times one night before he went to prison and survived. I think that was the beginning of his decision to seek something better. Spending three years in jail probably provided the rest of the motivation.

This employee worked for us for several years, until Hurricane Katrina. He did a generally good job and did not create significant problems. The work involved was physically demanding and the schedule could be pretty brutal in terms of hours/days worked. Some discontent was pretty much unaviodable from all of the labor crews, but the guy I am talking about was generallly no worse than the rest.

I'm not going to say that the story is one of total success. Some of you may remember another thread in which I recounted having given an old pickup truck to a guy, who never retitled it or registered it and eventually ended up with it being towed to a salvage yard. This, unfortunately, was the same guy. I have been pretty ticked off at him, because I had a salvage yard trying to get me to pay them close to a thousand dollars in storage fees, plus the truck ended up being stripped/junked.

What I don't regret, is giving the guy a chance. He didn't turn into a model citizen, but as far as I know, he has never gone back to dealing drugs. He seems to go through girlfriends, living situations and jobs at a rapid pace, but he does seem to remain mostly employed.

I guess my take on this for you, is that if you give your ex-con something, make it a job that isn't going to cause you great harm, if he messes up and/or quits quickly. Give him a shot, but keep him on a short leash. If you have the ability to reward your employees with incentives and typically do that, make it a prominent feature in his employment - make him understand that if he wants something, he must go above and beyond to earn it.

Hring an ex-con is often not a perfect situation, but you just might end up playing a large role in the rehabilitation of a young man.

 

[LadyFish]

Re: Would you hire an ex-con?

As usual Jay has good advice and insight as have others. It's a huge commitment. He won't be like any of your other employees. If you're up to it, know you are in for the long haul.

 

[imoutnumbered]

Re: Would you hire an ex-con?

I've been in the criminal justice field for 14 years, and as the saying goes, the 'tiger doesn't change its stripes'. Before I get flamed, there are people who have managed to do a 180 and stay that way, but they are rare. Drug offenders will do anything to feed the habit while they are addicted. No level of common sense will come into play. Those that have reformed and rehabilitated often have a constant battle with the desire to feel the high that the drugs offered. If they are weak, they will revert into the lifestyle.

I feel it is being a good citizen when you assume the best about people, but if you would employ an ex-con, you have to mentally prepare yourself for the issues that the odds say you will encounter. Also, you should minimize the risks you open yourself up to by modifying whatever workplace practices or policies might be in place. If this means also restricting current employees, then so be it. While it is not to punish the group for the individual, it is simply to cover your behind in the long run...which is good business sense. This would serve as a good time to evaluate your policies and practices to protect yourself whether or not he is hired.

 

[NoKlu]

Re: Would you hire an ex-con?

Losing a few power tools is worse than having the workshop burn down right?
A missing drill is a lot worse than Bubba's wife feeling she's living on a prison farm...only =inside= the fence.
Sure it is.

Is it charitable to want to give the shirt off someone else back ?

That's quite a leap you're making jonesg. "burning down the shop" and "prison farm" or did I miss the post where he was an arsonist. I read good kid and model prisoner not murdering psycho rapist.

 

[aspeck]

Re: Would you hire an ex-con?

http://sports.espn.go.com/espnmag/story?section=magazine&id=3789373

There was an unusual high school football game played in Grapevine, Texas . The game was between Grapevine Faith Academy and the Gainesville State School . Faith is a Christian school and Gainesville State School is located within a maximum security correction facility.

Gainesville State School has 14 players. They play every game on the road. Their record was 0-8. They've only scored twice. Their 14 players are teenagers who have been convicted of crimes ranging from drugs to assault to robbery. Most had families who had disowned them. They wore outdated, used shoulder pads and helmets. Faith Academy was 7-2. They had 70 players, 11 coaches, and the latest equipment.

Chris Hogan, the head coach at Faith Academy , knew the Gainesville team would have no fans and it would be no contest, so he thought, ?What if half of our fans and half of our cheerleaders, for one night only, cheered for the other team?? He sent out an email to the faithful asking them to do just that. ?Here?s the message I want you to send,? Hogan wrote. ?You?re just as valuable as any other person on the planet.?

Some folks were confused and thought he was nuts. One player said, ?Coach, why are we doing this?? Hogan said, ?Imagine you don't have a home life, no one to love you, no one pulling for you. Imagine that everyone pretty much had given up on you. Now, imagine what it would feel like and mean to you for hundreds of people to suddenly believe in you.?

The idea took root. On the night of the game, imagine the surprise of those 14 players when they took the field and there was a banner the cheerleaders had made for them to crash through. The visitors? stands were full. The cheerleaders were leading cheers for them. The fans were calling them by their names. Isaiah, the quarterback-middle linebacker said, ?I never in my life thought I would hear parents cheering to tackle and hit their kid. Most of the time, when we come out, people are afraid of us. You can see it in their eyes, but these people are yelling for us. They knew our names.?

Faith won the game, and after the game the teams gathered at the 50-yard line to pray. That?s when Isaiah, the teenage convict-quarterback surprised everybody and asked if he could pray and he prayed, ?Lord, I don't know what just happened so I don't know how or who to say thank you to, but I never knew there were so many people in the world who cared about us.? On the way back to the bus, under guard, each one of the players was handed a burger, fries, a coke, candy, a Bible, and an encouraging letter from the players from Faith Academy ...

What an incredible act of Christian witness and kindness and goodness that was. Proverbs 11:17 says, ?Your own soul is nourished when you are kind.? Proverbs 3:27 says, ?Do not withhold good when it is in your power to act.?

Be kind to someone this week. Be kind to every person you meet. You might be amazed at what God will do with a simple act of kindness.

 

[sprintst]

Re: Would you hire an ex-con?

Doesn't sound like the kid was a career criminal. Just got caught with the wrong crowd..

 

[StevNimrod]

Re: Would you hire an ex-con?

Bubba it sounds like your heart was in the right place.

Just a few things I want to say that might have been lost in translation...

When you're looking at a person you have to consider both their history and the circumstances of the allegations. Many large cities use statistics to attempt to make people feel safe (i.e., move to Chicago, it's safe here, in fact we have a 95% conviction rate). But how do they get those rates? A lot of times by over-indicting people. Meaning, if you were recreational in your drug use and got caught one time, you might get charged with possession. They find plastic sandwich bags in your kitchen and you're now getting "possession of criminal tools", and for good measure throw in "intent to distribute", etc. And don't own a firearm while all this is going down. When they find your prints on your own gun they're going to work gun specifications into as many of those charges as they can. So a recreational drug user might now be facing 8 years by the time he's done getting indicted. Go back and forth with the prosecutor and you might get a deal to avoid a trial if you admit to one charge or some lesser charge and do a year in jail. You're happy because one year guaranteed is better than putting 8 years of your life in the hands of an unpredictable jury, and they're system is happy because you're helping the "conviction stats".

I know a guy that recently got charged with kidnapping, felonious assault, and DV involving an alleged incident with his ex (who he was in the process of leaving). All with gun specifications. In his case, he had CCTV evidence making the all the charges highly improbable at best. Showing his comings and goings that day, as well as her comings and goings. All business as usual. The next day, she stops at the bank to clean it out, then stops at the police station to make a report. Some of the claims in the report were obviously not true based on the video evidence and cell phone records. Throw in the fact that the report came a day after the "incident" (you typically don't get kidnapped and feloniously assualted, go to get chinese food later that evening, and wait until the next day to do something about it), her stop at the bank before going to the police, him having no priors and being about as squeaky clean as people go (heck he doesn't even drink alcohol), her issues with alcohol and drug use, and eyebrows started to raise. "Hey...umm...it looks like you're taking this guy to the cleaners". He was looking at 11 years, plead out to a lesser charge, no jail, no probation. Morally he had a hard time pleading out, but realistically it's hard to pass up a deal that involves no time and expungement after a year when you're looking at 11 years and a permanent record.

Point being, in a lot of these criminal systems - especially in large cities - prosecutors and judges are overworked, people seldom care about justice or the facts and adopt a one-size-fits-all approach. They're probably right about most of the people that come through, but sometimes they get it very wrong.

 

[jonesg]

Re: Would you hire an ex-con?

That's quite a leap you're making jonesg. "burning down the shop" and "prison farm" or did I miss the post where he was an arsonist. I read good kid and model prisoner not murdering psycho rapist.

Not a leap at all, its realistic, you said whats the worst that could happen, a couple of tools go missing.?
I am very well aware what can happen when addicts and parole's are involved....and a few tools missing isn't the worst, its the least.
Less than 5% ever make it back to sanity.

Good kids don't go to jail.

 

[jonesg]

Re: Would you hire an ex-con?

http://sports.espn.go.com/espnmag/story?section=magazine&id=3789373

There was an unusual high school football game played in Grapevine, Texas . The game was between Grapevine Faith Academy and the Gainesville State School . Faith is a Christian school and Gainesville State School is located within a maximum security correction facility.

Gainesville State School has 14 players. They play every game on the road. Their record was 0-8. They've only scored twice. Their 14 players are teenagers who have been convicted of crimes ranging from drugs to assault to robbery. Most had families who had disowned them. They wore outdated, used shoulder pads and helmets. Faith Academy was 7-2. They had 70 players, 11 coaches, and the latest equipment.

Chris Hogan, the head coach at Faith Academy , knew the Gainesville team would have no fans and it would be no contest, so he thought, ?What if half of our fans and half of our cheerleaders, for one night only, cheered for the other team?? He sent out an email to the faithful asking them to do just that. ?Here?s the message I want you to send,? Hogan wrote. ?You?re just as valuable as any other person on the planet.?

Some folks were confused and thought he was nuts. One player said, ?Coach, why are we doing this?? Hogan said, ?Imagine you don't have a home life, no one to love you, no one pulling for you. Imagine that everyone pretty much had given up on you. Now, imagine what it would feel like and mean to you for hundreds of people to suddenly believe in you.?

The idea took root. On the night of the game, imagine the surprise of those 14 players when they took the field and there was a banner the cheerleaders had made for them to crash through. The visitors? stands were full. The cheerleaders were leading cheers for them. The fans were calling them by their names. Isaiah, the quarterback-middle linebacker said, ?I never in my life thought I would hear parents cheering to tackle and hit their kid. Most of the time, when we come out, people are afraid of us. You can see it in their eyes, but these people are yelling for us. They knew our names.?

Faith won the game, and after the game the teams gathered at the 50-yard line to pray. That?s when Isaiah, the teenage convict-quarterback surprised everybody and asked if he could pray and he prayed, ?Lord, I don't know what just happened so I don't know how or who to say thank you to, but I never knew there were so many people in the world who cared about us.? On the way back to the bus, under guard, each one of the players was handed a burger, fries, a coke, candy, a Bible, and an encouraging letter from the players from Faith Academy ...

What an incredible act of Christian witness and kindness and goodness that was. Proverbs 11:17 says, ?Your own soul is nourished when you are kind.? Proverbs 3:27 says, ?Do not withhold good when it is in your power to act.?

Be kind to someone this week. Be kind to every person you meet. You might be amazed at what God will do with a simple act of kindness.

Being kind to a convict from within the confines of the fence is one thing, bringing them into your business is entirely different.

I have a more appropriate bible quote, Jesus to his gang, " I am sending you out among the wolves, you must be pure as the dove but crafty as the fox".
Putting ourselves and others in harms way isn't a good use of God given common sense.