Winter Safe antifreeze - froze and cracked my block :( Help.....

JASinIL2006

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Feb 10, 2012
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I wish you luck, but I'm not optimistic for you. I don't know how you can prove the damage is due to the antifreeze and not a failure on your part to drain the engine completely. (I'm not saying you didn't drain it correctly, I'm just not sure how you can prove it....)
 

jkust

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Aug 2, 2008
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A little encouragement...Back when my previous boat was nearly new, I purchased a spare tire holder to attach to the trailer to hold a spare as I was still a trailer boater back then. Long story short, the design of the holder was bad and the weld broke from the spare tire's weight. The tire broke off the trailer, snapped the lock and the emergency cable meant for this very purpose and did major damage to my trailer and just missed causing major pile up on Memorial Day on a major highway.
I called the manufacturer, explained the issue, was persistent and they ended up paying for the damage. Turns out, this had happened to others with this spare tire holder.
 

EricT71

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Mar 20, 2016
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If it stays below freezing for extended periods of time, then corrosion protection is unnecessary. Rust does not form below freezing. Air is the safest IMO.
 

crackedblock

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May 21, 2018
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Thanks for all your helpful comments.

I've contacted the company and they tested the retains of that batch. Apparently everything is good so nothing they can do to help. I'm so frustrated... Like I've said earlier my father does the same trick every year, for over 20 years now.

I bought some Cooper pipe and I'll do a quick burst test to see what happens..I just don't belowbe the company that is in spec. The test is over 800$ here to verify glycol percentages etc.
 

H20Rat

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Mar 8, 2009
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Thanks for all your helpful comments.

I've contacted the company and they tested the retains of that batch. Apparently everything is good so nothing they can do to help. I'm so frustrated... Like I've said earlier my father does the same trick every year, for over 20 years now.

I bought some Cooper pipe and I'll do a quick burst test to see what happens..I just don't belowbe the company that is in spec. The test is over 800$ here to verify glycol percentages etc.

Just keep in mind that copper pipe can usually be frozen once without bursting. It is soft enough it rarely bursts from a single freeze event, it will expand quite a bit. The second one bursts it.

(Just got done replacing A LOT of copper piping at my cabin, had 2 breaks, but all the copper was expanded by about 25%.)
 

alldodge

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Never found a company selling a product be asked to test it and it come back with any problems
 

crackedblock

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May 21, 2018
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***update***

I added the antifreeze to a copper pipe, sealed using the shark bite ends. There was so much pressure the ends started leaking.

ALSO: I bought a 2$ product, put it in the freezer and it's still completely liquid after a full 24 hours. See below:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ePRt2uzAw1Ntl81hY5zucQ0DGPPZP4mX/view?usp=drivesdk


No wonder my engine failed..... It's clear to me that their product is CHEAP and does not contain enough glycol????
 
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ajgraz

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Mar 1, 2010
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Your marina screwed you for a few bucks.

Sad to say, the only thing that matters is who actually put the stuff in the engine. Nothing else will hold up.
 

Old Ironmaker

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Dec 28, 2015
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If it stays below freezing for extended periods of time, then corrosion protection is unnecessary. Rust does not form below freezing. Air is the safest IMO.

With all due respect I couldn't disagree more. Even dry winter air can contain 50% humidity or more. Water take on 3 states, liquid, gas and solid. Even at 40% humidity that gas that enters anything can and will become a liquid and a solid. Not enough to split cast Steel, Iron or Aluminum but enough to oxidize anything containing Iron. We had 2500 GPM cooling pumps in the Steel Plant. Usually 1 electric and 1 steam pump on back up idling. If a pump had to come out of service for any period of time other than PM that pump was isolated and 40 gallon drums of glycol was fed into it as to not let the metallic components oxidize. The pumphouses were heated to above freezing but as I said earlier oxidization will happen at below freezing temps.

I have been using plumbers anti freeze in my outboards and leaving them full of the -50F stuff for 9 years now. It was often left outdoors with the transom not 60 feet facing south towards old mean, cold, windy, and I mean 100KPH windy Lake Erie. I have never had an issue and after reading this thread consider myself lucky. I would never leave a anything that can oxidize empty. So what should I use? Regular automotive anti-freeze is what I'm thinking.

As far as recovering anything from a corporation I thought right out of the gate "good luck, you'll need it". They have more lawyers than most any Joe does but, and a big but. They don't throw around money for legal fees often. Here in Ontario the Joe consumer, related to plumber Joe, has one advantage. Our small claims courts in Ontario will award plaintiffs up to $10,000.00 CDN plus filing fees (80 bucks). Corporation Lawyers will meet with plaintiff's if they know that Joe plaintiff may have a case because he has evidence, no matter how remedial, and settle out of court after you sign a non disclosure. They aren't going to pay a company Lawyer many hours of billing fees when they don't have to. For 4 grand loss I would be filing in Small Claims tout suite. Don't most US States and Provinces here have a 5 grand Small Claims limit, that's less than the $4000.00 you are out. Show your findings to a Small Claims Justice and you may have a chance, they are most often fairly logical and around here don't like big companies bullying Joe Plaintiff. Here in Ontario unlike Superior Court a plaintiff need only prove beyond a preponderance of the evidence, not beyond a reasonable doubt. Watching Small Claims cases at our local courthouse can be entertaining on a cold winters day.

edit: I read back and yes you are a fellow Canuck, where? Don't be our typical "oh well, can't do much" nice apathetic Canadian. Be like a Pit Bull with a bone and don't let it go. I have dual citizenship and can be relentless when I think I have been scr$@d over, maybe my American 1/2 ? I once kept track of phone conversations with Hewlett Packard trying to get them to replace a bad Laptop. 38 hours of talking and or being kept on hold and 6 months of dealing with them. I stayed on hold once for 4 straight hours, every 20 minutes some service rep would ask "you still there Sir?" Yep and will be for as long as you tap out and send me a new Laptop. The $399.99 Laptop was of course no longer available and I got one that was 600 bucks retail, maybe 50 to them but they paid customer service reps more than 38 hours for them to save 60 bucks. I've sued the County and won when yellow traffic paint got all over my black car. They blinked, I won. Lot's of time when retired.
 
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JimS123

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Jul 27, 2007
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8,336
***update***

I added the antifreeze to a copper pipe, sealed using the shark bite ends. There was so much pressure the ends started leaking.

ALSO: I bought a 2$ product, put it in the freezer and it's still completely liquid after a full 24 hours. See below:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ePRt2uzAw1Ntl81hY5zucQ0DGPPZP4mX/view?usp=drivesdk


No wonder my engine failed..... It's clear to me that their product is CHEAP and does not contain enough glycol????

I'll second Ironmaker's comments. You need to be a pitbull. Companies will settle complaints based on good will even if they are not at fault. (I used to manage a complaint department for a fortune 500 company). In your case you are on solid ground.

-50 is not a freeze temp, its a BURST temp. The AF may solidify but should not expand.

Complain loud and let them know you will stop at no end to advertise their product on the net. There is no question that the product was defective.
 
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