Winner/Johnson basket case

[Jasper Burt]

New to the forum and new to boating. I will be asking plenty of questions as I just purchased a 16'Winner with a Johnson 80 HP Sea Horse motor. This is our next father/son project after a couple of Escorts, a couple of frame up Bricklins and others.....
Cleared the hull of all the dead tree limbs, leaves and beer cans.
Verified it floats!
identified all the bad parts. All the cables for steering, shifter and electrical going to the front of the boat need replacing. Steering Wheel bearing is shot.
Needs a paint job. It's been sitting neglected for 7 years. It ran when they parked it.
First things first - After penetrating oil, I got the motor to turn, but it will only turn about 5 degrees. I am wondering if I need to take it out of gear in order to get it to turn 360 degrees? (Not sure how the shifter works) I have compression/piston movement in the spark plug holes on all 4 cylinders. Crank and rod bearings appear normal. (For a car motor guy - it might be different for a boat?)
The motor could use a new wiring harness. I also need to know how to check/change the crankcase oil and gear oil. I don't see anything that looks like a dipstick?
I found a nameplate from Jonson. It says model is V4SL-19M, Serial is J2808660. I found a couple of places that list model numbers, but not this once. In order to get a manual, I have to work this out first.
Oh yeah - is this a 2 stroke or a 4 stroke motor?

 

[jbcurt00]

Ask motor questions in the Johnson outboards sub-forum.

Use this topic for rebuild of the hull

Good luck w your project
Welcome to Iboats

Post some pix

 

[racerone]

???-----It is a 2 stroke motor.----You mix gas and oil at 50:1 in the tank.-----There is no oil sump on this motor.------Read some manuals / books before you turn the key to start this motor.-----A 1967 model.-----White cowling , green midsection and lower unit.

 

[jimmbo]

Here are a couple of pages from the 1967 Johnson Brochure, and a Prop Chart for that engine. Back in the Day, there were only 5 Props for that engine, and these day they are getting harder to find, though they do appear on ebay from time to time.

Based on the Model # you gave, it is a Mechanical Shift model
WOT RPM range 4000-5000

Before you fire it up, you should replace the Water Pump Impeller. Also make sure it has Oil in the Gearcase

 

[racerone]

If it only has a throttle cable , and no shift cable it is an electric shift lower unit.-----Best do a complete evaluation of transom and stringers on the boat. ----Complete evaluation of motor before spending any beer tokens on motor parts / or paint and polish !!

 

[Jasper Burt]

???-----It is a 2 stroke motor.----You mix gas and oil at 50:1 in the tank.-----There is no oil sump on this motor.------Read some manuals / books before you turn the key to start this motor.-----A 1967 model.-----White cowling , green midsection and lower unit.

Thanks so much! It's been awhile since I worked on a 2 cycle. Need to remember how the motor gets oil.
Trying to determine which manual to purchase - and from where.
We did get the motor turning using penetrating oil and a fogger, but it only turns about 5 degrees either way. Fells like it might just be in gear, but I don't know if that would stop it from turning. Previous owner says it ran when he parked it, but it's pretty neglected. Parked for 6 years.
Pics attached.
I'll start posts in the appropriate sections going forward.
We're doing a "sink test' at the lake this afternoon.

 

[Jasper Burt]

Here are a couple of pages from the 1967 Johnson Brochure, and a Prop Chart for that engine. Back in the Day, there were only 5 Props for that engine, and these day they are getting harder to find, though they do appear on ebay from time to time.

Based on the Model # you gave, it is a Mechanical Shift model
WOT RPM range 4000-5000

Before you fire it up, you should replace the Water Pump Impeller. Also make sure it has Oil in the Gearcase

Thanks so much! Do you have a preferred source for manuals? I want to be sure I get the correct one. The prop doesn't look bad, but what do I know? ;-) WOT?

 

[Jasper Burt]

Ask motor questions in the Johnson outboards sub-forum.

Use this topic for rebuild of the hull

Good luck w your project
Welcome to Iboats

Post some pix

Thanks for the input! I will get moved to the correct sub-forum.
I am finding some rotten wood and broken fiberglass inside the boat. Outside of the hull looks pretty good except for the shoddy paint job.
Here's a few pics. Some (including me) would question my sanity on this one...... ;-)

 

[kcassells]

At this time, I suggest you have a total rehab. Not unusual.

 

[racerone]

In gear or neutral makes no difference.----Unless lower unit is messed up.-----Remove lower unit and see if motor turns.

 

[garbageguy]

To me, that's a nice looking hull shape. Likely a fair amount of work to make sure it's sound and well-supported. The good people on here have a nice history of providing really good assistance, if you decide to dig-in.
Thanks for posting pics

 

[jimmbo]

WOT: Wide Open Throttle

 

[buxmj]

The pic of the cap got my attention because it looks like what I am working on with the bottom of my boat project. You wrote shoddy paint job and that might be the case of someone doing a shoddy paint job over the original gelcoat, or not, hard to tell. When I zoomed in to that pic it looked like it was all spider cracks and crackling. You might already realize this but in case you don't, you don't want to gelcoat or paint over that without doing a lot of sanding, grinding first and then covering it all with CSM which encapsulates all the original gel coat and stabilizes it all into one piece. It has added so much work to my project but glad I saw someone do it before me. You don't want all the cracks to reappear down the road after rebuilding the whole thing, which it looks like you are about to get into. The whole process sucks but if done right the boat will outlast you and with it already having a cool look you will be the boat at the ramp people migrate to. Don't worry about the paint or gelcoat on the outside, get going on rebuilding the structure, that is the most important part anyway.

 

[buxmj]

Good luck and keep us updated!

 

[kcassells]

MOTO don't matter much if boat structure is failing.

 

[Jasper Burt]

Let me know if I post too many pictures.
My main concern is this boat hull may be "too far gone". Don't hesitate to let me know if I have purchased a "lost cause". (I once bought a Bricklin car that came to me in boxes). I've only got 200 bucks in it right now.
ID plate attached for reference.

We'll start on the inside of the boat.
1) There is a small cabin in the front. Pretty spooky in there. I am sure I could make it far more usable, but don't want to cover up anything needing attention. Some of the structure wood is pretty soft and crumbles fairly easily. Quite a bit of that sub structure will pull out by hand. Can I get away with replacing the parts with new wood?
2) In the passenger section where the turning cables (and other cables) would normally run, I can reach underneath and pull out handfuls of crumbling plywood. (See picture) Fiberglas is intact, but I am sure I could pull all of the wood out of those "tunnels". Can I get away with manufacturing new plywood sections and place them back inside those "u" shaped areas?
3) Fiberglass floor is cracked where the front seats used to be. One is large enough to see inside the bottom of the boat. Can I get away with using a jigsaw to cut a hatch or two in order to get a good look in there? Can I put a more recent permanent hatch in the floors?
4) There is a "seam" between what appears to be a bottom and top half of the hull. While those fiberglass joints appear to be structurally sound, some of the fiberglass has broken off. There are no cracks on the outside. Is there a recommended method for making these more visually appealing and less likely to injure a boat rider?
5) At what point am I impacting the structural integrity of the entire hull?

On the outside, the hull is intact. The boat does float. And it holds rain water.
The previous owner removed tie downs, the windshield and a few other items and filled them with what appears to be bondo. How do I know which are "factory" holes and which have been added over the years? I would like to replace all these items.
There is a chrome device at the back of the boat that I am assuming is the output of a sump pump? I could be wrong. If that is the case, did this boat come with a sump pump and, if so, how would I access it?

 

[Jasper Burt]

Let me know if I post too many pictures.
My main concern is this boat hull may be "too far gone". Don't hesitate to let me know if I have purchased a "lost cause". (I once bought a Bricklin car that came to me in boxes). I've only got 200 bucks in it right now.
ID plate attached for reference.

We'll start on the inside of the boat.
1) There is a small cabin in the front. Pretty spooky in there. I am sure I could make it far more usable, but don't want to cover up anything needing attention. Some of the structure wood is pretty soft and crumbles fairly easily. Quite a bit of that sub structure will pull out by hand. Can I get away with replacing the parts with new wood?
2) In the passenger section where the turning cables (and other cables) would normally run, I can reach underneath and pull out handfuls of crumbling plywood. (See picture) Fiberglas is intact, but I am sure I could pull all of the wood out of those "tunnels". Can I get away with manufacturing new plywood sections and place them back inside those "u" shaped areas?
3) Fiberglass floor is cracked where the front seats used to be. One is large enough to see inside the bottom of the boat. Can I get away with using a jigsaw to cut a hatch or two in order to get a good look in there? Can I put a more recent permanent hatch in the floors?
4) There is a "seam" between what appears to be a bottom and top half of the hull. While those fiberglass joints appear to be structurally sound, some of the fiberglass has broken off. There are no cracks on the outside. Is there a recommended method for making these more visually appealing and less likely to injure a boat rider?
5) At what point am I impacting the structural integrity of the entire hull?

On the outside, the hull is intact. The boat does float. And it holds rain water.
The previous owner removed tie downs, the windshield and a few other items and filled them with what appears to be bondo. How do I know which are "factory" holes and which have been added over the years? I would like to replace all these items.
There is a chrome device at the back of the boat that I am assuming is the output of a sump pump? I could be wrong. If that is the case, did this boat come with a sump pump and, if so, how would I access it?

 

[Jasper Burt]

MOTO don't matter much if boat structure is failing.

No doubt! I am concerned....... Many years ago, a friend advised me to "jack up the radiator cap and drive a new car under it" when I was doing a frame up on a Javelin. I may be pulling out the trailer and putting it under a different boat! ;-)

 

[Jasper Burt]

Here are a couple of pages from the 1967 Johnson Brochure, and a Prop Chart for that engine. Back in the Day, there were only 5 Props for that engine, and these day they are getting harder to find, though they do appear on ebay from time to time.

Based on the Model # you gave, it is a Mechanical Shift model
WOT RPM range 4000-5000

Before you fire it up, you should replace the Water Pump Impeller. Also make sure it has Oil in the Gearcase

Thanks so much! This helped quite a bit. It appears to be stuck in gear. Motor turns some (not 360 degrees), prop doesn't turn at all. Time to purchase a manual. How do I find a trustworthy source - and make sure I am purchasing the correct manual?