why my 9.8 Tohatsu won't start with pull starter

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rocket rich

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Today my battery and charger both went dead??Now trying to Pull start this Dog was almost impossible?? never did get it started?? Why this is a new motor . I'll grant you that I run the day lights out of this Dog. All the more reason it should start with out my electric starter??? COMMENTS
 

pvanv

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Were you able to pull the recoil? If not -- if it seemed jammed, you may either have liquid lock in a cylinder, overfilled oil, or the recoil safety lock may be engaged (such as if in gear). It is possible to get the starter lock jammed in the lock position under unusual circumstances.

OTOH, if you were able to pull and pull, verify that your stop clip is in place at the kill switch. Don't over-choke, especially in the warm summer months. If the motor will pull, and everything else looks good, check for flooded plugs.

It would be a good idea to diagnose your battery and charger; if an odd power surge fried them, it could have also damaged the motor's electrics.
 

rocket rich

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the motor would allow me to pull and retract . with the choke out for 3 pulls it flooded, the motor was in neutral?? should it have been in restart or start?? I don't understand what a liquid lock is or how it happens? Paul this is not my first motor but the first motor that has this many problems. thats why I bought a new motor . was not to have problems as I'm unable to deal with them,???
 

pvanv

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Must be in N. The recoil should be locked (inoperative) if in gear.

You do need air, especially if warm, so ReStart (or a little more) is usually best.

In Summer, I might do 1 or at most 2 pulls with choke for a "cold" (hasn't run in many hours) motor. If still warm (an hour or less) probably does not need any choke at all.

Starting technique is important; if you flooded the plugs, you will need to either pull them out to dry, or open the throttle all the way (and no choke) for several -- maybe many -- pulls to dry them. That would be the case for any motor of any brand and any vintage.

Liquid lock would be if the motor was laid on the wrong side, and oil ran into a cylinder. If it pulls OK, that is not the case.

Have you gotten it to start now, or are you still not running?
 

rocket rich

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no , I pulled out of the water and it's been raining for days which is good.. Next week I'll try it again. It will make a good anchor
 

pgnyc

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I have the same pb but with a all manual 9.8 new tohatsu. If it is cold ( just put on the boat ) it start right away with choke , but if i do not wait enought and stalle it, I need to wait and re try , a lot , with no choke and like pass the restart mark ! Pascal
 

pvanv

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Use more throttle to restart... lets in enough air to counter the percolation of fuel when warm.
 

rocket rich

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Well , I went out today and I can not pull start the motor... It acts like it's in gear?? It does start with the electric starter and ran really super today. What do I do now?? Paul PM me with the answer
 

rocket rich

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My battery and on board charger were both under the manufacter's warranty, it's not the problem. I never had tried to pull start in the pass, I believe. The motor acts like it's in gear. Tomorrow I will try to find the starter lock you mentioned?? That sounds like the problem but why would that need to be messed with?I'm not sure where it it. On my old Johnson it was a lever into a plastic part that cracked and I just removed it. but of course I knew that motor pretty well, and allowing it to start in gear was okay with me vs the cost to replace the plastic. HELP
 

pvanv

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You may have a jammed starter lock. If so, you can probably pop it free with a screwdriver. See the attached diagram:
002-21051-A_FIG07.JPG
 

rocket rich

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I'm looking at page 5-12, but I believe it's parts 16-17-18-19 and14??? what if I remove it completely then it will start in gear?? are do I just pop up 16??
 

pvanv

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As long as the cable has not been damaged, you can pop the starter lock pawl 16 up and out of the recoil reel, using a screwdriver as a lever. Failing that, remove the phillips-drive screw 17 that retains the lock pawl and remove those bits. You will then be able to pull start the motor when in gear. If the cable has been kinked, you will either need to have it replaced, or remove screw 17 and pull out the lock pawl. The safety guys would prefer that you have the lock working...
 

rocket rich

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Well there's a good reason to buy your motor through a dealer not online.... I bought mine online and didn't get the so called dealer to explain the little things that I've either read or talked to you. I now know how to start my motor with the rope starter. No one said that a hot motor needs to be started with the indicator passed the restart position?? Why was that?? I bought online ....Just a little moment to really enjoy my Tohatsu 9.8 ... Today I put a new TACH meter and found that my motor was really running on the very high side of 6000 RPM's. it clocked out against the wind at 5740 rpm wot. and with the wind at 5970 wot. I knew it was running on the high edge , should I back it off just a hair??? I'd say yes, but why...NO IDEA... SO once again Thanks St. PAUL
 

pvanv

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Rich,

The RPM range is OK up to and including 6,000, so you are OK.

If you hit about 6200 or 6250, the ESG will engage, and you will notice the odd sound of the ignition stuttering (as designed) to prevent over-revving. If you experience that, you can increase prop pitch one number, or just back off on the throttle a hair.

Keep in mind that the accuracy of some tachometers is not stellar, so for now, I wouldn't worry about it. If the boat is operated with more weight in it, the tach will read lower, so catch a lot of fish!
 

Sea Rider

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Factory delivered props achieves near or sometimes exceeds their wot rpm range when engine is powering very light applications such as inflatables. Stay with that prop, rpm will drop accordingly when more weight is added to that combo. Besides nobody runs wot all the time, just for fast plane when heavier loaded, then you should back down throttle to maintain plane and achieve best fuel economy.

Happy Boating
 

rocket rich

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I'm a pain in the butt, but that seems to be the only way to get information. again Thanks to all my new friends here. A special thanks to St Paul , you are truly a good friend. The motor ran very good this morning right at 5980 RPM wot, and yes I do run it wot a lot. My cabin is on the south end an I fish the middle and south with the wind this morning out of the southwest. which mean the lake is smooth today.
Sea Rider thanks to you also. Rocket Rich the ole guy
 

fishypoo

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Adm Paul, re the 9.8 Tohatsu manual start problem: Mine starts right up at the beginning of the day but on some days after several on-and-offs it won't restart again. I pull again and again, finally tinkering with the choke in, out and halfway, and possibly making it worse. I might be flooding it. But that doesn't explain why, after restarting just fine many times, it refuses to restart by simply pulling the starter cord. Is there some specific duration of off time at which I need to do something different to re-start it? I'm in a warm climate, Miami, so I doubt the engine gets cold by any normal definition. I haven't tried opening the throttle more than the re-start setting except if I get tentative ignition.

Reading your exchange with Rocket Rich, I think I might be flooding in that situation by over-choking (after resting for a while it does respond to the pull), but I also suspect the kill switch clip of partial responsibility. Apparently it must be placed just exactly so behind the red button for the engine to re-start, but there's no audible or feelable signal that it's correctly placed--or not.

Is it possible that I accidentally dislodge that clip very slightly when I turn off the outboard to drift or anchor for fishing? If so, is there another way to turn off the power without pressing the kill switch?
 
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rocket rich

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Hey fishypoo, this is a hella motor, When it runs. Truly , had I known that this motor had all these little problems, and they are little, I'd have spent the dollars and reconditioned my 96 johnson. I've had this for sale but only one bit,for a $1000 and he's nuts. As we adjust to this motor , We must thanks St. Paul for his passion for helping us. I'm hoping,I'm learning all the in's and out's of this Jewel. Thanks Paul
 

pvanv

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Fishy,

Since you have a different issue, it really would be better to start a new thread. However, Board etiquette aside, it's important to understand how gasoline and air must be at precisely the correct ratio in order for any motor to run.

Since we have so many computer-controlled, fuel-injected motors these days, many of us have forgotten the nuances of mixtures, carburetors, chokes, and so on. We got into similar situations as we moved away from points-and-condenser ignition, in favor of CD magnetos. Really small motors don't lend themselves to fuel injection (due to cost), so we have to go back in our collective memories to recall how to get the best starting (and restarting) techniques.

A really warm motor, once shut off for several minutes with the throttle closed, will be too rich to restart well, because the fuel vapors permeate into the throat and intake. Think of how a hot pan of water makes steam, whereas a cold pan doesn't evaporate as quickly. Adding choke will make the over-rich condition even worse, and you can even get liquid fuel on the plugs, which then definitely will not ignite. On some older V-8 cars, the fuel would actually percolate in the carb when it was shut down hot. That led to (sometimes very complex) thermal insulators at the carb bases. You will notice that the 9.8 has such a thermal insulator between the 2 carb base gaskets, for just that reason. Of course the inverse is true: a cold start requires less air, so that the (slow to evaporate) cold fuel is mixed at the proper ration to ignite. That's why you must choke a cold motor to start.

The mechanical choke knob does two things: it closes the choke butterfly, and it also increases the throttle some. In the case of a warm restart, more throttle is good (to admit more air), but closing off the choke plate is bad, since it restricts air flow.

If you are operating in warm climes, and have a warm motor, do not add choke. Instead, add throttle, which allows more air to get in. Sometimes, the throttle rod on the MFS8/9.8 is not advanced enough to do much of anything at "restart". I like to make sure the throttle opens significantly at "restart". To get that setting right, have the warm idle/troll speed set properly, and then, with the choke OFF and the tiller throttle at minimum, unlock the phillips screw on the bellcrank of the throttle arm of the carb, and remove the slack in the loop end of the rod, then retighten the screw. That will assure that a slight increase in the tiller throttle opens the throttle plate some. You cannot make that throttle rod adjustment if the carb is not at dead slow idle, or the lack of slack in the throttle linkage will prevent returning all the way to dead slow idle.

As an alternative, just turn the throttle up a little more, say to 1/2 throttle until the motor fires, then slow down to idle quickly as the motor comes to life.
 
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fishypoo

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Paul, I apologize for not starting a new thread but I just found this forum and couldn't figure out how. Your solution looks like just the thing. I think my motor fits your explanation of the throttle rod not being advanced enough to do much at restart. Next time I have the motor serviced I will ask the mechanic to make the adjustment you advise. In the meantime I will just use more throttle instead of choke when I don't get a restart on the first pull. All that aside, I still don't understand why I'm able to restart all day -- and then I can't.
 
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