Why aren't you Eco-nuts on top of this?

tommays

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Re: Why aren't you Eco-nuts on top of this?

And the current ice cores there drilling up RIGHT NOW show its come and gone MANY times in the last few thousand years

From what they thing is natural changes in weather patterns ?


Tommays
 

QC

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Re: Why aren't you Eco-nuts on top of this?

I have no facts and no links (haven't searched), but I do have a source. When Charlie Gibson reported this the other night he said "the largest ice thingee (my word) in 30 years". Anybody else's face get a little scrunched up by that one?
 

Boomyal

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Re: Why aren't you Eco-nuts on top of this?

Bond-o said:
Algore will be listened to even more.. perhaps, even enough to get him enough votes to become president..

Nah,...... I Doubt it........

Maybe his Home State,..?...?...?....?..

Nah,...... I Doubt it........

True, true, Bond-o. They (his home state) didn't even listen to (vote for) him in his bid for the Presidency. He is still grasping all over the world to get some attention.

Someone should make a fotoshop picture of Algore as Little Lord Fauntleroy.8)
 

JasonJ

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Re: Why aren't you Eco-nuts on top of this?

"I have no facts and no links (haven't searched), but I do have a source. When Charlie Gibson reported this the other night he said "the largest ice thingee (my word) in 30 years". Anybody else's face get a little scrunched up by that one?"

Yeah, but rest assured, there will be an even bigger one. Yeah, our industrial activity isn't helping matters, but it would have happened weather we were doing what we are doing or not. I think the main issue is not whether we cause global warming, because we don't. The main issue is that we exaserbate an already occuring event. I don't think anyone here can say what we are doing is helping the environment. The fact of the matter is all we have really done is just speed up a natural process, and there is nothing we can do about it now.

Yes, we can clean up our act, but it will not change the eventual outcome, whatever that will be.
 

QC

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Re: Why aren't you Eco-nuts on top of this?

You missed my point Jason . . . if this is the "biggest one in 30 years", there was a bigger one before that ;)
 

Plainsman

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Re: Why aren't you Eco-nuts on top of this?

QC said:
You missed my point Jason . . . if this is the "biggest one in 30 years", there was a bigger one before that ;)

Let see that would be in the mid 1970's ( see I can do math d:) ), isn't that when we were headed into global cooling?

I believe there is global warming, and then there will come global cooling...then global warming...then global cooling....hmmm...seems to be pattern here.
 

JasonJ

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Re: Why aren't you Eco-nuts on top of this?

"You missed my point Jason . . . if this is the "biggest one in 30 years", there was a bigger one before that"

Yeah yeah I got it... :)
 

12Footer

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Re: Why aren't you Eco-nuts on top of this?

QC said:
You missed my point Jason . . . if this is the "biggest one in 30 years", there was a bigger one before that ;)
Thirty years ago, president Carter was overseeing the gas crisis. The Japanese auto markets surged ahead of the big three. "Earhday" and "greenpiece" was founded. Environmental terrorism entered the lexicon. Treedancers were raging, and camping in, and nailing the trunks of trees.

They're raging again. Woe is me.


 

JasonJ

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Re: Why aren't you Eco-nuts on top of this?

"Thirty years ago, president Carter was overseeing the gas crisis. The Japanese auto markets surged ahead of the big three. "Earhday" and "greenpiece" was founded. Environmental terrorism entered the lexicon. Treedancers were raging, and camping in, and nailing the trunks of trees.

They're raging again. Woe is me."

The Japanese surged ahead because they made superior products. Only now are our autos approaching the quality of theirs. That is a fact of life, period. That being said, I drive a Ford and a Jeep. Mostly because that is what I can afford, although if buying new it would be a Ford F series....

Hippy treehuggers and their narrow agenda drives me insane, so you will find no arguement from me on that front....
 

PW2

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Re: Why aren't you Eco-nuts on top of this?

I guess all of you were just trying to fool me when you suggested you wanted to deal in "facts".

I see nothing but opinions here, and most of them baseless at that.

"The Greenhouse Effect" was discovered decades ago by scientists. This is nothing new. Most of what happens has been predicted--it is only the timing of it that is in question if we decide to do nothing.

We certainly can modify the effect of it, if we choose to, or at least man's specific contribution to it.
 

Boomyal

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Re: Why aren't you Eco-nuts on top of this?

PW2 said:
I guess all of you were just trying to fool me when you suggested you wanted to deal in "facts".

I see nothing but opinions here, and most of them baseless at that.

"The Greenhouse Effect" was discovered decades ago by scientists. This is nothing new. Most of what happens has been predicted--it is only the timing of it that is in question if we decide to do nothing.

We certainly can modify the effect of it, if we choose to, or at least man's specific contribution to it.

Are you walking, or bicycling yet PW? Or is it like Algore, keep doing the same ol', same ol' while you try to cow everyone else into walking the walk.

The green house theory is just that. A theory. At least as it pertains to any signifigant contribution by man. Throughout Earths history, it's poles have shifted, the climate has shifted, all without the help of man.

The environmental socialists are simply using this current natural change to achieve the destruction of the western capitalist way of life. If Lenin and Stalin had heard of Global Warming and if the Soviet society had not already been so backward, they would have used it just like todays Left does.

The sad part is that they have been successful in convincing so many critical over-thinkers that this is all the fault of the greedy western societies.:/
 

PW2

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Re: Why aren't you Eco-nuts on top of this?

I might even believe you, Boomie, if you had any evidence to back your assertions up.

But all you have to do is fly down to somewhere in the upper midwest on a calm day and see the pervasive blue haze to know it has to have some effect.
 

12Footer

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Re: Why aren't you Eco-nuts on top of this?

PW2 said:
I might even believe you, Boomie, if you had any evidence to back your assertions up.

But all you have to do is fly down to somewhere in the upper midwest on a calm day and see the pervasive blue haze to know it has to have some effect.
Or da smokey mountain chain got named by algore.
I wont convince you, nor will You convince me Global warming can be controled by humans.
72422557.KZ6s061L.retard.gif
 

CJY

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Re: Why aren't you Eco-nuts on top of this?

"The green house theory is just that. A theory. At least as it pertains to any signifigant contribution by man. Throughout Earths history, it's poles have shifted, the climate has shifted, all without the help of man."

Yes, so what? Does that mean man has no way of worsening the situation? Do you know what has caused this in the past?

When you say "theory," from whose perspective do you speak? From a scientists view, "theory" and "fact" are basically one in the same. You must be using Reagan's definition. He used it as though it's an opinion.

Don't confuse "the greenhouse theory," with man induced global warming. They are different topics. The greenhouse effect is nothing more than our atmosphere trapping heat near the surface of the Earth. It operates under the same principle as a greenhouse, or an auto with the windows rolled up on a sunny day. Without it, we would not survive, too cold. Radiation gets through the atmosphere, heats the ground, the ground heats the air. The "greenhouse effect," is scientific, not opinion.


Previous climate shifts were still caused by an increase/decrease in greenhouse gases. Volcanic activity releases huge amounts of gases into the atmosphere. Volcanoes have the ability to spew huge amounts of gases such as CO2 into the atmosphere. CO2 is a GH gas. Unlike most other gases in our atmosphere, CO2 has the ability to retain heat. For the Earth's temp to remain stable and not increase, a certain amount of heat must escape back into space. If more is trapped, climate temps increase.

The present amount of greenhouse gases in our atmosphere, is in the determining factor in our daily average temp.

Man induced Global warming comes from industry, auto, etc. putting greenhouse gases into our atmosphere. GH gases such as CO2(carbon dioxide) and CH4(methane). These gases, with others, unlike nitrogen and oxygen have the ability to trap heat. Therefore, more GH gases = more trapped heat=greater temperatures.

How does man increase GH gases in our atmosphere you ask? The biggest, is through the burning of fossil fuels. Again, not an opinion. It stands to reason that if CO2 is released into the atmosphere from the burning of fuel, and CO2 traps heat, we are worsening the effects of global warming.

Whether the increase in greenhouse gases come from nature or man is irrelevant. An increase is not good. It changes the climate. The climate plants and animals have adapted to. Change the climate quickly, and many, including man, may not survive. How many mammoths or sabertooth tigers have you seen lately? Whether man has the ability to survive it, is the only opinion part.

CO2 retains heat, we put CO2 into the atmosphere, thus, temps are increasing. It's a no-brainer. You can deny it all you want, but it's only because you have your head burried in the sand up to your ankles.
 

QC

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Re: Why aren't you Eco-nuts on top of this?

I don't disagree with much you have posted here CJY. The debate for me is: a) to what degree (literally and figuratively) man has caused the apparent change in climate and b) to what degree can man do something about it.

I still strongly believe that fear is profitable. I don't believe there is a conspiracy to create fear, but there is no question in my mind that fear snowballs. Fear becomes a business, it encourages itself.

I also know that research is always affected by any knowledge of a desired outcome. I don't believe this can be eliminated without multiple parallel studies done by multiple blends of researchers with multiple backgrounds, ideologies, cultures etc. etc. etc. And research must be provided with no suggestions on solutions. Solutions require opinions.

Also, I am afraid of solutions that are worse than the perceived problem. There are multiple examples of well intentioned environmental actions that have not only caused other problems but even made the initially identified problem worse. There is no modern revelation that eliminates this risk. I strongly believe mankind ALWAYS thinks there is some new level of knowledge that will insure success.
 

treedancer

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Re: Why aren't you Eco-nuts on top of this?

I would also agree with what CJY, plus add this to it.

Snip

Tropical rainforests act like lungs of the earth. The trees take up the carbon dioxide and release oxygen into the atmosphere. Destroying the forests upsets the balance, with more carbon dioxide being left in the atmosphere and less oxygen being released.
When tropical rainforests are cleared by burning the trees, carbon dioxide is released into the atmosphere.
This contributes to the 'greenhouse effect' which causes global warming
.
I guess that stopping the destruction of the rainforest would /could be the topic of another thread.

http://www.rainforestlive.org.uk/index.cfm?Articleid=470

Quote QC

I still strongly believe that fear is profitable. I don't believe there is a conspiracy to create fear, but there is no question in my mind that fear snowballs. Fear becomes a business, it encourages itself.


You’re right on that QC, fear is profitable. Ask yourself this question, is more profit being made by the people that are instilling the fear ,or by the people that are denying that there is a problem?
 

Haut Medoc

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Re: Why aren't you Eco-nuts on top of this?

Also, I am afraid of solutions that are worse than the perceived problem.
Like the war in Iraq?
Whoops! Wrong thread! :$
 

QC

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Re: Why aren't you Eco-nuts on top of this?

Where we differ treedancer is that I don't believe profit as a motivator is bad. I don't believe that those who employ people, and provide a service or product that people desire, want and need are evil. I believe that lies are usually evil regardless of who tells them.

Aaaand, so that you don't waste precious bandwidth, I used usually for a variety of examples including the often cited example of answering no when your wife asks "do I look fat in this?" . . .
 

JasonJ

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Re: Why aren't you Eco-nuts on top of this?

"Where we differ treedancer is that I don't believe profit as a motivator is bad. I don't believe that those who employ people, and provide a service or product that people desire, want and need are evil. I believe that lies are usually evil regardless of who tells them."

I agree with this. If the environment is improved, who cares if people make money doing it. Big oil is seeing the writing on the wall and is trying to do more research into alternate fuels, so they stay in the profit game.

As far as control goes, control is control. Both parties seek to control through fear, they just use different things...
 

CJY

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Re: Why aren't you Eco-nuts on top of this?

QC, no doubt, fear breeds fear.

I think the potential consequences of ignoring GW as propaganda are too great.
 
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