Why are we in Irak?

PW2 · Dec 18, 2004

Re: Why are we in Irak?

As you can see, Rolmops, the reason for this incursion is fleeting, and there does not seem to be any definitive officisl "reason" for it. Sure it is about oil, but not solely about oil. It is surely not about radical Islamics, as if it were, there are scores of better targets we could have chosen, including Saudi Arabia, Iran, Pakistan and others I personally think that it was because we could do it, and with some simplistic neocon notion that all we had to do was overthrow Saddam, and the Iraqis would line the streets showering us with flowers, build a democratic pro West (in oreder to thank us of couurse) government, which the rest of the middle east would want to emulate what we helped Iraq to build, and the other Middle East governments would like dominos topple and build their own pro West democracies. It is a policy based on an infantile unsophisticated view of the world. The results were predictable. The only question that remains is that when they have their elections, how widespread will the resulting civil war be?

rolmops · Dec 18, 2004

Re: Why are we in Irak?

Peace! Trying to analyze a situation and asking for opinion, does not warrant condemnation. Any government that only reacts to outside events is less than a good government. I believe that governments act in proactive ways in order to realize long range goals.The reasons we were given for going to Iraq are, in my opinion inadequate.The reason for staying there,if it is oil,is a very smart longe range plan that I totally support. DJ,When the USA was being formed in the 18th century, the Dutch through sea battles with the British gave great help to the fledgeling USA.They will always be grateful for having the favor returned.Are my family members expendable?I don't think so.I think of that,every time a soldier dies for my freedom. The Dutch together with England are active European allies in Iraq.Why?Rotterdam is the worlds biggest oil transfer station and chemical industry complex.They know exactly from which side their bread is buttered. I really believe that we are witnessing the forming of alliances that have the ultimate purpose of assuring a guaranteed energy supply under the alliance's own control and protected by its armed forces. All this being said,I have an additional question. Why is it that the arab resistance in Iraq is so lively and persistent? Could it be that they are getting encouragement and support from outside groups that have their own agenda? PW2,You may not like the current administration,but you do underestimate them.They are neither stupid nor naive.

tomatolord · Dec 18, 2004

Re: Why are we in Irak?

Please read "the pentagons new map" It explains clearly why we are in Iraq 1 - oil yes - to increase the US GDP by 1% takes .01 % increase in energy, to increase chinas gdp by 1% takes a 10% energy increase...we are protecting the WORLDS oil supply - the same supply that England, canada, france, germany, china, etc all use, not just the US... 2 - READ the declaration of independence carefully - http://www.law.indiana.edu/uslawdocs/declaration.html "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." If you notice it does NOT say americans etc ALL humans have this right. IT IS WRONG TO kill your neighbors terrorize your citizens kill your political opponents subjegate your women imprison those who have different opinions If saddam was neighbor next door you would be screaming for the police to come and get him. Iraq needs to become a democracy to start the process of stabilizing the entire region, democracies are stable countries - because they have too much to lose READ the 911 commission report on what radical islam wants 1- US to pull out of israel 2- US to convert to Islam (yes all of the US) Pro west is the complete wrong word - PRO DEMOCRACY is the correct word - The US has not said your democracy must look like ours Dont forget we have done or did the same thing to Japan - now a stable country germany - now a stable country italy Again read The pentagons new map 911 commission report Both are in local libraries

SpinnerBait_Nut · Dec 18, 2004

Re: Why are we in Irak?

By Lisa Myers & the NBC investigative unit Updated: 7:42 p.m. ET Dec. 17, 2004Former Iraqi deputy prime minister Tariq Aziz was the sophisticated, intelligent face of a thuggish regime. He was known for his elegant English suits and a fondness for Cuban cigars. But photos, obtained exclusively by NBC News, for the first time show Aziz as he lives now, in custody. It's a strikingly different image Aziz appears frail in orange prison garb and plastic handcuffs. David Kay a former U.S. adviser in Iraq spent months questioning Aziz and others. He says Aziz quickly turned on Saddam and could testify at any trial. "He talks about direct orders to murder, to assassinate, to kill," says Kay. NBC News has learned U.N. investigators probing corruption in the U.N. oil for food program were scheduled to question Aziz last week. That session was delayed for security reasons. Related story Kofi Annan pledges more U.N. help in Iraq The U.N. investigation led by former Federal Reserve chairman Paul Volcker is looking into Saddam's alleged diversion of oil money that was supposed to go for food to U.N. officials and politicians in key countries. U.S. officials say Aziz already has implicated the French and others, claiming payoffs were made with the understanding that recipients would support Iraq on key matters before the U.N. "He pointed to specific individuals in Russia and France, in the United States that received favorable treatment," says David Kay. Now, sources tell NBC News that Aziz has indicated he's finally ready to talk about alleged bribes to U.N. officials. U.N. investigators refuse to comment. Former Secretary of State James Baker says Aziz has an incentive to be helpful to the U.S. "He may very well be inclined to cooperate with us thinking that he could receive some sort of leniency or get a better deal," says Baker. Once Saddam's tireless defender, Aziz is now singing a very different tune, to please his new keeper.

12Footer · Dec 18, 2004

Re: Why are we in Irak?

The obvious answer was given several times, allong with the obligatory "Because Bush is evil, Mike Moore for president" noise. But you asked. Simply put, we are at war. More important than any other question you could've asked is, "will we win?" Another important question would be, "Will Iraq become a democracy?" Instead it's, "Why are we there?"??? Fight, debate and argue for the proper outcome,(victory and democracy for Iraq), or fight,argue,debate for the enemy. The outcome,just as in the first Gulf war and Vietnam,Korea, will follow American public opinion. And I haven't given up on Vietnam iether.

Even though we lost..(Thanks, Jane-n-John and who knows who). Dang-good post, Tomtatolord!!

phatmanmike · Dec 18, 2004

Re: Why are we in Irak?

well for all of those in this land who say we are there to " help the people of irak"... why havent we invaded cuba yet? or cambodia, or burma, .....you get my point. and , no, im NOT gonna say "cause they dont have oil"

kenimpzoom · Dec 18, 2004

Re: Why are we in Irak?

To answer your question - the only reason we give a rats a$$ about anything in the middle east is because of oil. Perhaps god put it there so we would care about it? As for theother areas - perhaps they are next? Before 9/11 we waited for UN approval. Now that the UN no longer is in power, perhaps we will liberate Iran, burma, and cuba. You got to remember, the upmost priority of the president is national security. Afganistan, follwed by Iraq were the biggests threats, there are others that are a bit worried right now. I vote Iran first, I think Korea is bluffing just to get more money. Ken

12Footer · Dec 18, 2004

Re: Why are we in Irak?

We are fighting a Global war against Islamic terrorism. Where? The um...Globe. What are the underground oil reserves of Afghanistan? Do you think the price of gas will come down because we won there?

12Footer · Dec 18, 2004

Re: Why are we in Irak?

Haliburton my ***!

Bondo · Dec 18, 2004

Re: Why are we in Irak?

We are presently at war with Islamic terrorists. Because the vermin are spread-out globally , this is a global war . Just as Iwo Jima was durring WWII, so is Iraq in this world war on Islamic terror. It is but one battle in a larger theater. Iraq, (as was Lybia before Momar Kadfe cooperated), has been safe harbor for terrorist training and equipping for many years.

With all the Veterans here on this board, I'm really Surprised that No one sees the Best of the Reasons(Yes, I see Several Great Reasons) to be in Iraq......... Revenge.... Sure..... Oil..... Sure..... Spreading Democracy....... Sure.... What I see as the Brilliance of the War in Iraq is, Choosing Where the Battlefield will be......... Would You rather wage War in the streets of Manhattan??............................................... or Bagdad ????? Even having been a civilian all my life, I know enough to Fight the battles I can Win, Where,+ When it Best suits Me .............

lakelivin · Dec 18, 2004

Re: Why are we in Irak?

Given that the question is 'why are we there?' and not 'why did we go there in the first place?', a major part of the answer is easy. If you break it, you bought it (fix it). Not doing so would further hurt our standing and interests not only in the Middle East, but throughout the world. Unfortunately we will have to endure negative fallout between now and the time Iraq is 'fixed' (and that will be much longer than any initial Iraqui elections).

rogerwa · Dec 18, 2004

Re: Why are we in Irak?

Why are we still there?? Lets look at the other option. WE libberate and leave. What we would have is a terroristic Islamofacist state that would be worse than Saddam. From the dissenters listed in this post I hear nothing but the typical allegation spewed by bush haters sprinkled with the all to common notion that those who are supportive of this effort must have their heads up their a$$ becasue they cannot see the 'truth'. Oh and did I mention Haliburton. ROLMOPS, I appreciate the nature of your dialog as it is trying to answer an honest question and not taking the usual path of judging the person speaking based on party lines. This issue is so multimdimensional that we cannot possbibly assign a single motive such as oil. Assigning a single motive works well for those wanting to attack it. We went into Iraq as a continuation of the 91 engagement. Anyone who doesn't see that needs to be examined. What would it say if we just dropped the sanctions and let Saddam off the hook. If you use the analogy of raising kids, it should be pretty clear. If I give my child an option ot change their behavior or be punished, I need to be prepared to punish him/her. If I don't follow through (which was the position of France, Germany, and Russia) The kid will never take me seriously. Neither will the rest of my kids. To me its that simple. The side benefits are the spreading of democracy, indirectly pushing the issue with Iran, and a whole list of other things. I don't doubt that Bush knew of the sham that was happening with the Oil for Food program and was part of the reason we just wnet around the UN. They wer compromised and we gave them the opportuinty to do the right thing (which was to enforce the UN mandates - which everyone seems to forget). If we were after Oil, why don't we trade our Iraqs $4 billion in debt in oil promises instead of absolving it, which has just happened.

pjc · Dec 18, 2004

Re: Why are we in Irak?

simple.....we are in Iraq, along with allies of ours, to ensure that the global economy remains in a somewhat stable condition. It is really that simple folks.

Elmer Fudge · Dec 18, 2004

Re: Why are we in Irak?

This is how i see it, the arabs are a tribal society,their allegiances are not based as much on a nationalistic perspective, the borders of the arab countries were artificially imposed by the powers that be of that era, therefore democracy is not in my view a valid option, what is needed is an iron fist approach,it's the only option that will work, we have no alternative but to deal with the situation in the same manner as the israelis do in controlling them, one only have to look at the neighborhood of that part of the world,and it's plain as day that that's how their own leaders are able to somewhat control their internal feuding.

woodrat · Dec 18, 2004

Re: Why are we in Irak?

do a google search of the phrase "peak oil". As to why we are there, even a commie pinko tree-hugger like myself can see that. WE cannot leave until we "win" or we lose what little credibility we have left, not to mentioned the oil prize. Therefore, we will no doubt stay there for the next decade or generation or however long it takes to "win" which I personally don't think is going to happen anytime soon. Especially since no one seems to have an idea of what it might mean to "win" this thing. We don't really want a full-blown "democracy" over there, because then they would likely elect someone we don't approve of. And all the insurgents have to do is not lose. They don't need to win. As long as some of them are still left and continuing to shoot at us, we will be forced to stay.

phatmanmike · Dec 18, 2004

Re: Why are we in Irak?

Originally posted by 12Footer: We are fighting a Global war against Islamic terrorism. Where? The um...Globe. What are the underground oil reserves of Afghanistan? Do you think the price of gas will come down because we won there?

12footer, we are not fighting a war on "islamic" terrorism, we are fighting a war on terrorism in general. it doesnt matter WHAT religion the bad guys are. also, why do you say we "won"...what did we win, a free toaster? a new car? title of azzhole of the world?

pjc · Dec 18, 2004

Re: Why are we in Irak?

Does one realize that the growing instability in, particularly Iraq, more generally the middle east, has the potential to catastrophically destroy the global economy. Of which ALL nations of planet mother earth part of. Not just the Us and Europe proper, which most seem to focus on with HUGE blinders. Like the US economy for example and what aid we do provide to developing nations will be gone. This IS NOT about OIL solely. In addition, ever consider why the Arabs despise the West, particularly the US. It is because of an action that took place in the late 1940s. Yep, when the State of Israel was created. From that moment the Arab nations began to stew over the hated Jews having a country of their own. Thus, at this point in history, especially after 911, an attack by radical terrorist Arabs, it is necessary to force the Arabs to recognize that they MUST come to terms and realize that Israel and all its constituents will not be driven into the sea. On the other hand, would any rational person consider allowing a Saddam, or an Ossama, to eliminate Israel and all her Jews? Me thinks Saddam was working to achieve that end. Come on, lets allow the Arabs to achieve their goal in the interest of world piece, and the global economy. Sacrifice Israel!!! Ridiculous. Face it. As long as Israel exists, there will never be piece in the middle east. BUT, by a show of action and force a climate can be the outcome that allows nations in the middle east to coexist. This is not about oil,Bushs pride, and so on. Geez.

mrbscott19 · Dec 18, 2004

Re: Why are we in Irak?

EDIT: nevermind

12Footer · Dec 19, 2004

Re: Why are we in Irak?

Originally posted by phatmanmike: 12footer, we are not fighting a war on "islamic" terrorism, we are fighting a war on terrorism in general. it doesnt matter WHAT religion the bad guys are. also, why do you say we "won"...what did we win, a free toaster? a new car? title of azzhole of the world?

No, Mike. Islamic Terror is precisely the sole enemy in this war. Have you heard of any attacks by us on Ireland and the IRA? No. The IRA didn't attack the United States on 9/11/01. Have you heard any assaults carried-out by "catholic suicide bombers" on our soveriegn shores? Uh...No. You haven't (until Mike Moore comes out with another "documentary", anyhow). Do we seek and destroy any of the Russian purist terrorist groups in thier homeland? Nope. Make no mistake who and what our enemy is, and why we are also currently still in Iraq.It's where the mutants attack us now. Iran is no better, but thanks to what CBS likes to refer to as, "INSURGIENTS", expect the fight to go into Iran if need be. The 'need be' soon, if they cannot gain control of Iran's Islamic "insurgients" crossing the border and blowing themselves up in Iraqi shoppin malls! How about "win" meaning the war against these ISLAMIC fry-brained mutants from around the globe? The UN has failed to assist us...Too many Islamic warlords with seats of power within the corrupt body. That's trajic,but true. Our thinly-but-proudly fielded coalition of nations, has the future of the world on it's shoulders. As the enemy shows it's real form in other countries, we can expect the coalition to grow. This is the way I see it, along with the red states and the predident we elected. As long as public opinion is firmly behind the current course of action,we will "WIN" this war. If not, the enemy has "WON". Also,since we are on the definition and perceptions of the WORDS we use--- I see "decsent" differently than the left does also. I see decsent as it's definition in Webster's dictioary. Sush "decsent" in times of war are ,InMyHumbleOpinion, "treason", as it is define in Webster's dictionary. Just a little something to ponder while you sing Kumbaya. AHA!! I had to re-read your post, to glean the following ,but: You must think that it's a religious fight (Islamic). No,Mike. Not by any stretch! It has everything to do with Islamic terrorist training, missions, goals for victory, and current targets. That's basically it. If "insurgents" did not target us that day, and proclaim "Gihaad against America and Christianity in general" (OBL), we would be blind to thier causes. YUP...They now have our attention, allright! We will win this if it takes 80 years!

dogsdad · Dec 19, 2004

Re: Why are we in Irak?

Originally posted by WillyBWright: Let's see, Why are we in Iraq? Could it be because Bush Sr.'s former cabinet members Cheney and Rumsfeld wanted to finish the job they started on with the first Gulf War? YUP! Is it significant that Bush Jr. is a Texas Oil Millionaire and Iraq is an oil-rich nation?? YUP!! Could it be a personal vendetta on Sadaam Hussein and a gross abuse of Presidential power??? ABSOLUTELTY!!! Good intentions for liberating Iraq? BAH HUMBUG!

Blah, blah, blah. WillyBeWrong, you're so consistent it's scary. Let's get the cart behind the horse for a change. Were there not lots of oil in the region, there would likely be damned little trouble of any consequence. Unfortunately, these fanatical fruitcakes have lots of petrodollars to finance whatever wicked scheme they can dream up. The establishment of democracy in Iraq will change the face of the entire region. And as I see it, Red China does have a hand in the game, and anyone who believes that China is a benign dictatorship must be smoking crack. Our move was a pre-emption of any Chinese designs on the region, and may have been one of the most brilliant strategic moves in recent history.

Why are we in Irak?

Commander

Vice Admiral

Chief Petty Officer

Honorary Moderator Emeritus

Fleet Admiral

Captain

Rear Admiral

Fleet Admiral

Fleet Admiral

Moderator

Lieutenant Junior Grade

Commander

Lieutenant Commander

Lieutenant Commander

Ensign

Captain

Lieutenant Commander

Chief Petty Officer

Fleet Admiral

Lieutenant