Why are we in Irak?

[rolmops]

Do you think it is because of 9-11? Because of WMDs or because of oil?<br />I thought this whole thing over and the only conclusion I can reach is oil.<br />This raw material is not only getting scarcer,but at the same time demand by the new giants (China and India)is growing dramatically.By having armed forces in a dominant position in the United Arab Emirates, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and Irak we have control of about 50% of all the oil reserves in the world. Add to that the armed forces in Afganistan with their support through airbases in Uzbekistan(this area has plenty of oil) we can say that we have tight control of this energy source.Oil may not be the reason why we went there.But at least in my opinion it is the main strategic reason why we stay there.<br />I just hope that some alternative to oil will be found soon, because of the way this whole thing is developing. We might be in for a lot more than we bargained for.

 

[ebbtide176]

Re: Why are we in Irak?

why? that's almost funny, except for the part about people dying....<br /><br />but knowing that most of your posts are pretty serious, i'll give my thoughts<br /><br />- to get rid of saddam<br />- to help the iraqi's <br />- to stay until they can set up a government<br />- to hopefully see a balance of power by the iraqi's for the iraqi's with democratic principles<br /><br />do i think oil had anything to do with it? very little, but it had to be a factor, just as breaking the rules from the oil for food, and gulf war, and harboring terrorists, and seeking to acquire nukes, and intending to assassinate the US president probably worked into the equation somewhere.

 

[rolmops]

Re: Why are we in Irak?

Ebb, the post is about why we are in Irak,not why we went there.I understand your thoughts about the victims.I also understand that on the whole, power politics cares very little about people dying.

 

[DJ]

Re: Why are we in Irak?

Not sure if we are in Irak. We are in Iraq though.

 

[ebbtide176]

Re: Why are we in Irak?

ok<br /><br />i believe we are still there because<br />- we said we would help them establish a government after we ousted saddam<br />- we haven't declared the whole conflict over and no longer in need of our occupation<br />- we can't leave them while they still need our boots on the ground, and no other countries with enough military strength seem inclined to help replace our troups<br />- the new iraqi ruling powers haven't asked us to leave<br />- our country's civilian population hasn't let pessimism & pascifism control our resolve, as it did in the 70's<br /><br />later...

 

[WillyBWright]

Re: Why are we in Irak?

Let's see, Why are we in Iraq?<br /><br />Could it be because Bush Sr.'s former cabinet members Cheney and Rumsfeld wanted to finish the job they started on with the first Gulf War? YUP!<br /><br />Is it significant that Bush Jr. is a Texas Oil Millionaire and Iraq is an oil-rich nation?? YUP!!<br /><br />Could it be a personal vendetta on Sadaam Hussein and a gross abuse of Presidential power??? ABSOLUTELTY!!!<br /><br />Good intentions for liberating Iraq? BAH HUMBUG!

 

[ebbtide176]

Re: Why are we in Irak?

i don't mean this to come across wrong rolmops, but i wonder if your exposure to arabs has left you with a healthy doubt of what their societies can overcome, which most americans may not feel...

 

[12Footer]

Re: Why are we in Irak?

We are presently at war with Islamic terrorists. Because the vermin are spread-out globally, this is a global war. Just as Iwo Jima was durring WWII, so is Iraq in this world war on Islamic terror. It is but one battle in a larger theater.<br />Iraq, (as was Lybia before Momar Kadfe cooperated), has been safe harbor for terrorist training and equipping for many years. We tried in 1992, to return it to sovereignty under it's incumbent dictator,while kicking Iraq out of it's nieghboring country of Kuwait, and removing it's ability to use WMD with the UN weapons inspector debacle. "We tried" is keystone here. The United Nations not only failed miserably, but also encouraged fraud and deception with it's "food for oil" scam.<br />Sadamn now lanquishes in United States Military custody. His country is on the brink of democracy (a people-governed form of government), for the first time in thier history.There will be major problems with this metamorphosis from tyrany to self-rule. Some of which, American citizens only add to. But it will happen.

 

[rolmops]

Re: Why are we in Irak?

DJ,I just spent a week in Holland where everybody calls it Irak, except of course for the French, so please forgive me.<br />Ebb, are you saying that I am a cynic?You are probably right.<br />12Footer, I think that democracy is a western concept.One that arabs are willing to use if it serves to perpetuate their hierarchial traditions.In Israel proper where democracy has been a fact of life for the Arab Israelis since 1964,the arab vote still goes according to family blocs and not according to political opinion.<br />I think that their society can easily overcome a few years of western imposed ideas.They are even happy to use them if it serves their purpose.However their tribal and village allegiance easily wins out over any western imported idea.

 

[ebbtide176]

Re: Why are we in Irak?

well dang rolmops, we need to somehow convince ACLU to move their headquarters over to iraq, and become the ICLU... it sounds like some serious prejudice. <br />but what about all the newer generations? what about the democratic iranian upheavals taking place by the students? <br />maybe their children will force a change....

 

[jimalsk]

Re: Why are we in Irak?

ebb besides the ACLU they may need the PETA people also. No matter how hard we try, we will not change 3000yrs of history

 

[rolmops]

Re: Why are we in Irak?

Ebb, Iranians are not Arabs.Their culture pattern is urban and not tribal.

 

[wajajaja]

Re: Why are we in Irak?

http://www.thestatenislandboys.com/Lady Liberty/index.htm

 

[SpinnerBait_Nut]

Re: Why are we in Irak?

wajajaja, exactly.<br /><br />Me thinks this is just another attempt to be a candidate for the best troll thread.<br /><br />This has been hashed out so many times and poofed too, I hope the mods stop this one before it gets heated up.

 

[12Footer]

Re: Why are we in Irak?

Rolmops, I agree that Arab culture has no concept of democracy. But they have no choice but to "start concieving". Since it was a democracy that overthrew it's former dictatorship, it will be people-rule or marshall rule until then. <br />Remember, this is the second time we've been there. We tried not to remove the government, while removing it from another country,and trying to limit it's ability to regain offensive posture. This time, it is over. No oil for food, no UN inspectors..THis time, thier government gets a facelift. As with Isreal, I hope it becomes a model to the rest of the Arab world.<br />But regardless of whether it is or not, Iraq will hold elections on the 8th of January,2005.<br />It will not be a dictatorship,and women will have the same rights as men (which means, a mother's vote). Mob rule cannot flourish when mom has a voice and a rolling pin. This is one primary change to normal Arab culture that will (IMHO),stand-out like the sun, to the rest of the mideast-- and asia too.

 

[crab bait]

Re: Why are we in Irak?

to jump start new haliburton hamburger stands all along an up & down the tigress an euphriates..

 

[phatmanmike]

Re: Why are we in Irak?

why are we there....<br />#1. because he wanted to get saddam for his daddy <br />#2. to take attention off of usama bin laden <br />#3. to provide the U.S. with an outpost right smack in the middle of the middle east <br />#4. because, as stated above, china is THEE fastest developing nation in the world. and we all know what developed nations need, right... OIL , if we dont get it first, the lil yellow man will, and we cant have that now , can we

 

[Boomyal]

Re: Why are we in Irak?

Ok, it was for oil! Now you satisfied. From what we have seen of many of you here, you would just love to see America held hostage for it's energy need. The many of you are just so high and mighty, I'd love to see your world reduced to bicycles and oxcarts.<br /><br />At least till this point, the price of oil has been generally dictated by supply and demand. Even with China being a big bidder, the potential price would be nothing compared to what the likes of Saddam would have tried. What he tried to do with Kuwait, he undoubtedly would have tried at some point in the future and taken Saudi Arabia with it.<br /><br />But I know. That would be fine for the high and mighty, free thinking, self righteous PW's, Rolmops and I guess Phatmanmike, et al.

 

[snapperbait]

Re: Why are we in Irak?

Narrowmindedness, not withstanding... Interesting you bringing up China and India with reguards to oil, Rolmops... Kudos for thinking outside the narrow box of terrorism and WMD's that we've been scared into (not me)...<br /><br />Perhaps our presence in Iraq is a smokescreen to cover some larger ulterior motives.. China would be a most formidable force to deal with.. Better to do so economicly me thinks.. Maybe the Administration is smarter than we give credit for.... <br /><br />

 

[DJ]

Re: Why are we in Irak?

rolmops,<br /><br />You're back in the USA now. Or, at least I think upstate NY is still claiming to be in the US.<br /><br />I don't give a rip how the Hollanders spell it. We (USA) saved their bacon before too.<br /><br />G.W. Bush is the president now, like it or not. Saddam tried to assassinate his father. Fact. That's a good enough reason for me. Family ties beside, anyone trying to assassinate<br />a US president is a call for war-period. <br /><br />Got a problem with that? <br /><br />Or, are your family members expendable?