Who decided that fighting is bad?

[cheburashka]

Re: Who decided that fighting is bad?

Cheb> somehow, I'm not surprised about your comment.

Now what's that supposed to mean? You're not surprised that I'd take the same stance I took last time this came up in this forum? Am I being bullied here?

Back to the original question, bullying needs to be stopped because no matter how well you train YOUR kid to fight, someone else's kid will end up being the next victim. Bullies are very competent at finding the weakest and most defenseless kids, and they know exactly how to hurt them the most. They'll find a kid with a disability, or a kid who's small and weak, or they'll find another way to stack the odds in their favor. Also, there will come a time in everyone's life when they will need to learn to deal with bullies without fighting them.

My father was a bully toward his kids. His father was the same. When the odds are that stacked against you in a fight, you learn better ways to stay out of trouble than trying to take on the bully who has deliberately chosen a fight he knows he can win. Many bosses are bullies. Many teachers too. In cases like that you can't force a physical altercation and you need the mental skills to deal with it.

"Whining about it"? Nah. Just suggesting what I think is a better way to deal with it than fighting fire with fire.

 

[DayCruiser]

Re: Who decided that fighting is bad?

Just think about this. We have the most violent country in the world. The most people locked up in jails and prisons. Child abuse is rampant. Rapes galore and on and on. This just didn't start, its been going on for decades. Probably starts with what kids learn early on from their parents , TV, Video, friends etc. People aren't born knowing how to be a good parent. Maybe there needs to be a school for good parenting.. Jackazzes beget jackazzes LOL

 

[KRH1326]

Re: Who decided that fighting is bad?

I saw this post and the replies up to now, and at first I thought that I would read it for kicks and laughs. But the more I thought about it, the more I was actually contemplating a reply or not.

With out singling any individual post or reply, you can see a broad spectrum of age and era as well as , for lack of a better word, social status.

For starters I am in the 40-50 year bracket. I come from a blue collar working home. I am a blue collar worker.

Myself, my brother, my friends and most of my schoolmates learned how to fight, or at least absorb a good licking at teens and just pre-teens. A bully might catch some poor kid one day, and have his way with him, but the next day that bully would pay for it when the victim's friends caught up to him.

Bully stops bully-ing.

No teacher was involved, no cops were involved. It just ended.

As we grew through our teens, maybe some bikers, maybe some motor-heads, maybe some jocks or maybe some schollars, whoever I/we/they are, would get into a scrap with someone over something stupid. But it always seemed to end then and there. I have had atlercations with other people at a bar, or party, wherever, and have even ended up having a beer or two with the other, afterwards. My best friend, growing up, was a guy that I had a knock down drag out brawl with, prior.

Every time, the common thing is, it ends right then and there. Rarely has police or whoever, ever had to get involved.

I think that, in general, a 14 year old kid from 1974 is by far a 'tougher' kid than a 14 year old from 2010. Why is it, in general, that a 1974 14 year old was more mature, respect for family, had moral values and had respect for rules and authority etc. than today's 14 year old?

When I was 14, I already had my own little row boat and outboard, and could go fishing when and how I pleased. In today's society, a 14 year old can't go to the other side of town on thier own.

I think that the claims that we are "dumbing down" our kids is so very true. And I think that the OP's question goes right along with this.

30+ years of psychotherapists and thier touchie-feelies, lawyers and frivolous lawsuits, over protective parents, and people who self appointedly think that they know what is best for everyone else, have helped today's 14 year old to need to be over-supervised, medicated and less independant.

I know that this has drifted from the OP's original question, but I think it ties right in at the end, with what our current society has become.

 

[lowkee]

Re: Who decided that fighting is bad?

fighting is simply enforcing your will on someone else.

Someone above said it well. This is an answer to your own question.

Just think about this. We have the most violent country in the world. The most people locked up in jails and prisons. Child abuse is rampant. Rapes galore and on and on. This just didn't start, its been going on for decades. Probably starts with what kids learn early on from their parents , TV, Video, friends etc. People aren't born knowing how to be a good parent. Maybe there needs to be a school for good parenting.. Jackazzes beget jackazzes LOL

Well put. Many people do not know that other cultures have never had such thing as teenage rebellion. It is purely a "civilized culture" norm. That alone I find to summarize how our children are raised.

I think telling our children to stop feeling is exactly why they rebel in the first place. Emotions happen whether you like the results or not. Kids need direction, and more and more activities are being removed from the lives of children, leaving only a laundry list of "don't do this" in the wake. More rules and laws just add to the "Do not" list, and one person can only hear "No" so many times before that is the only "word" they shrug off.

 

[Bob_VT]

Re: Who decided that fighting is bad?

Everybody is reading into this too deep..... philosophy..... war stories ...etc

The title is Who decided that fighting is bad?

The answer is............




































wait for it....


















A simple answer
















The looser of the fight decided that fighting was bad.

 

[KRH1326]

Re: Who decided that fighting is bad?

Dang it Bob, I spraigned my mouse wheel finger, scrolloing down for the simple answer! lol

Anyone ever hear "The Winner" by Bobby Bare? Or Johnny Cash's "Boy Named Sue" ?

 

[milmat1]

Re: Who decided that fighting is bad?

My Dad told me and I still believe it true, Fighting is a Terrible thing But Some things are worth Fighting for !

 

[bowman316]

Re: Who decided that fighting is bad?

Bullying is all the talk now in Mass, and how .y .

A few years ago I was driving by a gas station of all places and happened to see a crowd of 6 or 7 high school kids all in a circle beating the crap out of another kid. I was sitting there at the stop light debateing to stop it or not, light turned green I still sat there, people behind me started honking at me and I said screw it and drove in to the gas station. I pulled in around the corner, behind the gas station attendents building, popped my trunk and grabbed my tire iron. I tapped on the attendents window and told him to call the cops. Then I walked straight into the crowd, grabbed 1 kid by the neck and threw him to the ground, kicked another in the side of his knee so hard it buckled and he fell. Now I was down to 5 kids but their attention was on me and not the poor kid bleeding on the ground. Sure as sh!t 1 kid pulled a little buck knife on me and yelled to his buddy (who must have been 100lbs lighter than me) to hold me so he could stick me. I don't know what the kid was thinking but he threw a swing at me, and I smashed his hand/wrist/forearm with the tire iron and broke something pretty hard.
Now there are 3 kids on the ground all in tears, their 4 friends including the kid with the knife all ran off, (leaving their friends). I grabbed the kid who was getting his butt kicked and brought him to my car, grabbed him some paper towels for his face, and drove him a few blocks back to his house. He thanked me inbetween his tears. But also said "he was going to get it when he went back to school tomorrow".

That whole altercation was over in 30 seconds by the time I got involved. What kills me about it all, was I noticed it at least a full 3 minutes before I got involved in it. There were tons of people around, kids to other adults. Nobody else got involved, tried to stop it, or even called the police, as they never showed (I didn't exactly wait around for them though).

That story reminds me of that scene from bad santa, where billy bob thorton beats up those kids who were bullying that other kid. He is about to kill himelf in the car with the exugst, then the kid comes up to him with a black eye, and he says, "What happened to your eye." the next scene is billy bob beating up these kids, saying, "so you like to give kids black eyes, huh?"

Then He is telling the elf about it, and says "you know today I beat the SH*T out of some little kids, and I feel really good about myself" And the midget replies "you need many years of therapy. Many many years of therapy."

funny movie

 

[cheburashka]

Re: Who decided that fighting is bad?

I think that, in general, a 14 year old kid from 1974 is by far a 'tougher' kid than a 14 year old from 2010. Why is it, in general, that a 1974 14 year old was more mature, respect for family, had moral values and had respect for rules and authority etc. than today's 14 year old?

Sorry to rain on your parade, but in 1974 I was 13 years old, and I'm one of the most anti-fighting folks posting in this thread. I don't think it's so much era as it is area.

And I heartily disagree with the idea that bullying a bully makes him less of a bully. You can ridicule statistics and studies all you want, but there's a lot of information out there that indicates that bullying a bully just makes him worse.

 

[SS MAYFLOAT]

Re: Who decided that fighting is bad?

Dad taught me long ago when I could remember "Any fool can fight,,,,it takes a smart person to stay out of one" That was 48 years ago and I have never had to fight even when I was backed into a cornor. Either my dad was right or I was smart....... Being 97 pounds at the age of 18, I did get picked on a lot. Mom being a school teacher even added more to me being bullied. However I always practiced what my Dad had told me.

I feel bullies can cause those that are picked on to do harm to others when pushed too far. It does happen a lot.

 

[Stachi]

Re: Who decided that fighting is bad?

General Patton said..."no one ever won a war by dying for their country,... they won the war by making the other side die for their country".....I believe in protect yourself and family...hit them hard and quick.... fight the legal battle later..as long as mine don't get hurt...nothing like a thumb into an eye socket...

 

[jwp]

Re: Who decided that fighting is bad?

I feel bullies can cause those that are picked on to do harm to others when pushed too far. It does happen a lot.

One thing I've seen is - a man who is terrified to fight but is finally pushed to the point that he has to, can truly hurt the one who pushed him. Why you ask, well he's afraid the tough guy is going to kill him.

I have to admit - Bob_VT has the best handle on this thread

 

[bowman316]

Re: Who decided that fighting is bad?

someone hinted about this earlier. But It seems to me that most white collar people, tend to avoid fights and altercations. While blue collar people tend to stand up for themselves more. Blue collar people just seem tougher.
Has to do with how they are raised.

 

[cheburashka]

Re: Who decided that fighting is bad?

someone hinted about this earlier. But It seems to me that most white collar people, tend to avoid fights and altercations. While blue collar people tend to stand up for themselves more. Blue collar people just seem tougher.
Has to do with how they are raised.

I agree that blue collar people tend to be more comfortable with physical fighting, but I don't see what that has to do with "standing up for themselves."

On the topic of whether white collar people stand up for themselves, I stand up for myself plenty. I just know when it's a stupid idea to let my bruised pride dictate my actions instead of my sense of what's best in the long term. I almost lost my job over standing up to a bully and then I weighed the options and decided to back down. I stood up for my family rather than for my temporarily bruised pride.

"Tougher"? Again, that's a biased way of looking at things. I think it takes a lot of "toughness" to make it through four years of college, but it's a different kind of toughness.

Not saying that blue collar folks can't make it through college. Most of my students are blue collar, but they're learning a new kind of toughness.

 

[JustJason]

Re: Who decided that fighting is bad?

But It seems to me that most white collar people, tend to avoid fights and altercations. While blue collar people tend to stand up for themselves more. Blue collar people just seem tougher.

Hehe... That's because the if the white collar guy wants to get physically big/strong he has to put in his 8 hours at the office then find the time to hit a gym
With us blue collar guys... work is a gym.

 

[lonesouth]

Re: Who decided that fighting is bad?

I think it is true that kids today are sissies. Don't fight back, just tell an adult (when its over and you've been beaten up). Lot of good that does you and the bully gets what (suspended). Suspension is like a get out of jail free card or vacation, because all too often the parents don't have time to disipline the kid in the first place, so they leave him at home with the xbox all day (should have said nintendo to make me sound older). So in the end, the victim gets beat to a pulp and the bully gets a vacation. Back in the day, the bully would have paid for his crime. Course, back in the day, kids wouldn't take a beating so seriously and respond with great force(i.e. knife or gun).

I had a teacher who related to me a story from when he was a kid, 12 or so. Every day on the way home from school, the much larger bully and his gang caught him and beat him up for fun. This went on for about a week when the father finally asked what was going on. He recounted the beatings to his father, after which his father took him out to the garage. Father said, "Son, what you need is an equalizer." Son, "What's an equalizer?" So the father took a piece of oak and chucked it into the lathe. He carved out a 14" club that fit perfectly in the sons hand. He carved out the end and filled it with lead. Upon finishing it, he hand it to his son and said, "This is an equalizer." The day after school, the son came walking home without a scratch.

[SOAPBOX]
The problem today is that "authorities" want to make excuses for the bully. "Its not his fault, his father is an alcoholic and he takes it out on his classmates." "He is an only child and both his parents work." etc. Excuses are great to try to explain the underlying problem, but do nothing to correct the behavior. Experiential learning will go a long way toward teaching a kid what kind of consequences there are for a type of behavior. If a bully gets beaten by a victim, he knows not to bully that kid. But he may also think twice about bullying others. That and the former victim has gained some much needed self esteem and potentially some satisfaction. In the end, the bully got what was due, and not a vacation.
[/SOAPBOX]

I'm sure I'm making waves with my second post being this rant!

 

[Mark42]

Re: Who decided that fighting is bad?

To the bullying point..... That is why I have my kids enrolled in Mixed Martial Arts. By the end of the summer, if a school kid bullies them, they will know how to straighten their *** out.

Its amazing what my 10 year old daughter can do to me after just a few weeks of classes.

If you are not expecting the kids to know how to defend themselves, it comes as a real surprise when you're on your back on the floor.

 

[rbh]

Re: Who decided that fighting is bad?

Parents always thought I needed something to do in the winter and sighned me up for judo.
It is defensive and not really offensive until the bully in shop class grabs you and you throw him over two work benches!

 

[cheburashka]

Re: Who decided that fighting is bad?

The problem today is that "authorities" want to make excuses for the bully. "Its not his fault, his father is an alcoholic and he takes it out on his classmates." "He is an only child and both his parents work." etc. Excuses are great to try to explain the underlying problem, but do nothing to correct the behavior. Experiential learning will go a long way toward teaching a kid what kind of consequences there are for a type of behavior. If a bully gets beaten by a victim, he knows not to bully that kid. But he may also think twice about bullying others. That and the former victim has gained some much needed self esteem and potentially some satisfaction. In the end, the bully got what was due, and not a vacation.


I'm sure I'm making waves with my second post being this rant!

Well, you are going kind of fast in a posted no-wake zone.

Why assume that there's a problem "today"? Why not look at what the problem was back then--that the authorities assumed that there were "bad kids" who should be kicked out of school permanently, that kids could successfully work it out on their own, that regardless of why a kid was a certain way (bad home life, dyslexic, ADHD, etc.) you didn't have to do anything to accommodate that kid and you were free to just let him fail, that there was always someone at the bottom of the pecking order who didn't need to be defended by the authorities because he was "different" for some reason. . .

Bullies are smart. Kind of like mean dogs. You ever beat a mean dog? First off, it doesn't make them less mean. It makes them cringe around you, but they'll still bite the next person they see. They learn nothing from it. Secondly, it doesn't make you a better person. It just makes you feel like you've accomplished something when you really haven't.

 

[SS MAYFLOAT]

Re: Who decided that fighting is bad?

Anyone watch Bully Beatdown on MTV?