What would you do???

[oldboat1]

Re: What would you do???

I agree that it would probably be wise to do no more work on the boat, whatever the arrangement. It's worth saying again, though, that accepting reimbursement for costs is not the same as holding yourself out as an operator of a trade or business. If the owner has all risk coverage on the boat, there is still a chance that some coverage could exist for freeze damage. The owner arguably took reasonable precautions regarding winterization.

 

[ODDD1]

Re: What would you do???

If you hadn't charged the guy, the cheapskate would of got exactly what he had comin, and you could have watched him get laughed out of small claims from the defendant's bench....<br /> BUT, you charged....a little or a lot [kinda like being a little pregnant] makes no difference, fee collected for services rendered. If I were you, I would be getting real sweaty over this, if it goes ugly it is gonna cost you...

 

[oldboat1]

Re: What would you do???

Think it depends on how you present yourself generally, and how you presented yourself to the boat owner. If you are in the business, it's one thing. If you are a hobbyist, it's another. The fact that you were reimbursed for your costs is not controlling -- although it is an indication on the face of it that you were conducting a business deal. The burden of proof may be on you if push comes to shove, but I don't think anyone should assume you are automatically liable. It all depends....

 

[P.V.]

Re: What would you do???

As oldboat1 said, "exactly" !!!!!!!

 

[bernieb]

Re: What would you do???

When a company or a private sm shop like Mercury one is operating ,how can one protect himself that the owner of the boat will not take it out one more time.I got a feeling that the present dealership that has the boat will look at the policy and stick it to the insurance company one way or another.The owner will get a brand new engine verses the 8 year-old one he had and in the end mercury one will have learned a valuable lesson to "study" and attempt to cover all bases if that is even possible in this lawyer infested world.

 

[Doug Durako]

Re: What would you do???

Sorry, Merc 1---I get a little upset when people do not read their insurance policies. I get treated like a jerk when I ask a mechanic a stupid question, so turnabout is fair play.<br /><br />If you get a really stupid adjuster, the owner might get a new motor. If you get one with a little experience, the owner might get a used motor. If you get one who knows what they are doing, the claim will be denied.<br /><br />You could save some time by asking the owner to actually read the exclusions section of his insurance policy (it should only be about a page of text)----"All risk" or not, I've never seen a policy that covers damage caused by maintenance or lack thereof. Insurance covers fortuitous, unforseen physical damage to property.<br /><br />This damage was neither caused by chance, nor was it unforseen.<br /><br />The other thing you need to know---if the owners' insurance does pay for this damage, eventually, the stupid adjuster's supervisor is going to come at you to pay the insurance company back---it is called "right of subrogation" and you may also want to read that section of the policy. You will then have to prove that you did not cause the damage, or you will pay back the insurance company and pay the owner back his deductible.<br /><br />Just a few additional thoughts for you to ponder.

 

[sea wolf]

Re: What would you do???

i have a policy with boat/us. if i want freeze damage i have to pay an extra $40./yr. for the coverage. if he doesn't have a similiar rider, he's {the owner} out of luck. and i don't know that all ins. co.'s offer that coverage. i know that most won't cover it under a standard policy.

 

[golfer]

Re: What would you do???

I didn't read all the posts, just giving my opinion...Should not have charged if it was a favor. The charging puts the problem in your hands. You should do whatever you can to make things right. Bummer I know, but if you charge for a service, you really assume responsibility. Just my opinion.

 

[Mikedg]

Re: What would you do???

This is a tough one, but I agree with the position that if you took money for the job you are responsible. If you had never winterized an I/O you should have stayed away from it or found a shop manual.<br /><br />You can either pay in full or cut a deal. No response may see you in court.<br /><br />You may however be lucky depending on this guy's insurance. My insurance will not pay for freeze damage if I winterize things myself, but if I pay a professional or a yard to do it they will cover the damage. Maybe his insurance will as well.

 

[boilerjunkie]

Re: What would you do???

merc1,<br />here's my $0.01. i am the 25 year old guy(kinda speaking). i have a 1988 Chris Craft cuddy with a 305 V-8. took to a local "shadetree" mechanic to have the starter rebuilt in August 2002. he kept putting off the repair until late fall arrived. i told him to keep the boat and do the repair whenever he could as long as he winterized and stored it out of the weather. he agreed. i paid for the winterization/starter repair in early january but decided to let him store it for a few more months until spring(at a minimal cost). ask him to de-winterize and check the starter back in April. he calls me and asked if i knew i had a cracked block....<br /><br />i know how the young guy feels. i also know that i was saving some money by not going to a "boat shop". but i mainly attribute that to low overhead for a part-time mechanic. if the guy would have told me that he wasn't exactly sure what to do to keep the block from cracking, i would have gladly paid the extra $$ to get it done right. i think anyone would.<br /><br />so the verdict is: if you tell someone you can perform a job and you agree upon a price, this is a contract between people. it is just like building a house or bidding a major job, you put out bids to perform work. usually the lowest bidder wins. if you had any doubt that you couldn't do the job properly, then you should not have accepted the job to begin.<br /><br />also, you should be ready to go to small claims court. i am not having much luck with even getting in touch with my "shadetree" mechanic to begin getting the block repaired and am making plans to go to People's Court... p.s. it may help to apologize and work with the guy to get his boat running ASAP. that may help out alot in the end.

 

[mercury1]

Re: What would you do???

Ok once again thank you all for your input.<br /><br />Maybe I did not clarify the fact that I drained the block, and the water pump. I am assuming all the water came out, how can you be sure? That is the problem I am having with it that give me my doubts of it being my resposiblity. I am not trying to harp on this situation, but am at a loss.<br />After the boat left my house (8 months ago) I have absolutely no control over what happened to it. NOW, if I had stored it here, after I winterized it, I would obviously feel obligated to fix it. Right now, since I have not had any control over the boat for 8 months, I have a hard time feeling that I should do anything about it.<br /><br />I found the guy a used 454 yesterday for $3000 installed and running. Does this sound fair. Who is going to pay for it at this time, I do not know.<br /><br />Thanks again to all.

 

[bernieb]

Re: What would you do???

Mercury one it took a lot of guts to list your post, and I'm sure it was educational to a lot of us, so I wish you luck on the outcome .

 

[sea wolf]

Re: What would you do???

did u drain the manifold{s}? did u add antifreeze to the block? why are u blaming the owner for you're mistakes?

 

[ODDD1]

Re: What would you do???

Merc, twice now you have asked the question, "How can you be sure all the water is drained?" This is why people go to professionals for winterizing, TO BE SURE....that is what most people want, a gaurantee, not I think so, or maybe......in the 20+ years i have been winterizing inboards, I have never freeze damaged anything...and I have also climbed in every boat that shows up on my lot after first hard freeze before it is left there, I will not be responsible for prior damage....and yes, I see them show up already frozen, and they almost always leave...... as for the question 'how?' -100 propylene glycol antifreeze is purchased by the drum in a service shop that does any amount of inboard winterizing....I will usually sell 40+ cases over the counter every fall, too.

 

[echozulu]

Re: What would you do???

this is what happens when your starting out working on boats if your unsure about anything find out about it or dont do it another downside of having a small shop or being young is you have every cheapa** hillbilly in town bring in junk that wasnt worth touching in the first place "but it only needs a little sumpin " your in the s*** now but in the long run youve learned the most important things in the boat biz 1. dont work on peoples boats you or your family know they want something for nothing 2. every time you cut somebody a deal it goes sour 3. make money or dont do it

 

[mercury1]

Re: What would you do???

First off, again I want to thank all of you for your replies. This is not an easy time for me.<br /><br />Sea Wolf, I know you have the best of intentions, but I have not implied that I am blaming the owner for my mistakes at all. All I said was that I wanted proof that he didnt take it out again in the month and a half of nice weather we had here before the first cold snap. Of course why would he???? But then why would I have sent it home if I would have thought there was a chance thatIleft water int it???? I took my boat out probably a half a dozen times in that period. I like how you just jump to conclusions and automatically blame me, are you a lawyer by chance? Put yourself in my shoes.<br /><br />ODDD1, I never implied to him in any way I was professional with I/O boats. He could have easily taken it to a large shop and paid the full price. I am sure he wished he did now. <br />I am glad for you thet you are so perfect in your business. Just remember, everyone makes mistakes, and it takes a man to fess up to them. <br /><br />I only asked for advice here, not criticizm, which some of you have dished out criticizm very well. I wish you all well in your future endeavors and I hope you stay as perfect as you think you are.<br /><br />Thanks again.

 

[Mikevn1500]

Re: What would you do???

Merc1<br /> I got my first I/O (1986)in Aug 02. I learned what I needed to know about winterizing my own boat by reading the posts on this board. There are many posts and re-posts about this subject. If you know how to use the computer to get here to share your problem with us, why then wouldn't you research the proper method for the Motor/outdrive combo you chose to work on? I know I am sounding like a jerk and I am not trying to bust your Ba**s here but I am just wondering if you did any research or not. After a couple of hours and some notes I made it past some very cold months just fine. But I also here you on the 8 months. In Jan. I was almost tempted to go Musky fishing but didn't want to risk it. Now if I still had my outboard setup I would have gone. Good luck for real sounds like your going to need it.

 

[a.d.mobile]

Re: What would you do???

Well merc 1 it is a bad thing I own a I/O repair shop and i did a favor for a 70 hp evinrude and I can still taste it to day. that was 10 years ago. and beyond belief some insurance co. will cover this. I could not believe it, I have done 5 covered froze engines over the years. for his favor he should make the call to the insurance co. what parts exactly broke if you drained two block plugs the block should have not cracked if the water came out? sometimes those drains get pluged with mud/sand and they have to be cleared to drain properly. when doing something you are not comfortable in always back flush with anti-freeze. good luck A.D.

 

[WaterLauger]

Re: What would you do???

Merc1,<br /><br />I understand you are looking into whether this guy used his boat after you "winterized". Did you by chance write the hours down when you worked on it? Just a thought but sometimes a standard practice in boat shops. <br /><br />Just thinking....

 

[llerrad]

Re: What would you do???

ENOUGH, ENOUGH QUIT ALREADY.....