What have I gotten myself into? 1994 Capri 1700 LS

[zopperman]

Re: What have I gotten myself into? 1994 Capri 1700 LS

Sounds about right

 

[oops!]

Re: What have I gotten myself into? 1994 Capri 1700 LS

Ok I just posted a long reply but it didn't take for some reason. Here is the short version.
This one is for you Opps. Concerning my choice in wood materials, how about composites? I know it's been asked in the forum but I haven't seen anyone say yay or nay yet. I'm thinking about Prisma Prefab stringers and Penske Board for the transom.
One question is does the wood provide the support and take the load or does the glass/resin where the stringers are concerned. If the glass/resin takes the load, can you gut out the rotten stringer and pour foam into the void and cap with glass/resin? Prisma is appea
Ing due to weight, ease of installation, time savings and cost.(7 to 10 bucks for a 4 ft stringer section)
I haven't been able to find a complete thread on the subject. I even read an entire blog on a Mako rebuild that just stopped in early to mid 2010 if memory serves me. It not that I'm against wood, I just want to remove the possibility that it could rot again it some thing is missed or goes wrong. Remember, I'm new to this.

sorry it took me so long to see this....

there is a lot to cover here....

first off.....the judge nailed the situation.......wood will last for 20-40 years with basic maintenance, so it is very hard to justify the cost for comp materials.

ok....now for structure...

in the olden days it was the wood that held the load. but with the manufacturers finding out just how strong poly resin and glass was.....they found they could make the stringers out of glass...just throw foam where the stringers are, and thickly glass over the foam....they just used the foam for shape.......if the foam got wet, who cares?.....the glass would be fine.
for the builders...it is also a time vs cost factor.....the manufacturers buy the resin at a buck a pound....and the glass it self is not very expensive.....so the chopper gun stringers save them a lot of money and time.

so....in short answer to your question....
you could use foam as a form for stringers and just glass over the foam. (you would need to protect the foam from the resin, the resin will eat the foam)
you would really have to glass it good.....2-3 inches wide....and really glass the contact area and the corners.....and as much as 5 layers of 1708.
You want to think I beam when you are glassing.....the more curves there is to the glass....the stronger it will be.

The trade off here is the weight for the home builder...
The wood AND glass method, is generally very light....(there is a big difference between the amount of resin being used at a factory via chopper gun, and a home builder with a resin bucket and a fuzzy roller).
This works well. it is also cheap (about 40 dollars a stringer complete)
composite, on the other hand....is triple that for the cost of the material and them you still have to glass them in !

so as far as the composite stringer....in your boat.....its your call......you can put what ever you want in it.

I like the idea of a composite transom.....but for the home builder....the costs are still prohibitive

 

[zopperman]

Re: What have I gotten myself into? 1994 Capri 1700 LS

I'd look into this stuff too
http://www.preforms.com/prisma_advantage.php

 

[Sevfdemt]

Re: What have I gotten myself into? 1994 Capri 1700 LS

The Prisma is what I was looking into and sounds appealing. The Penske Board does look expensive but it you have to go through all that trouble to change out the transom, it just seems like it would be worth it. I've settled in to my recliner today,(it's raining on Christmas, some kid with a new bike is hatin' it right now.) and been reading up on Friscoboat's SeaRay rebuild. WOW. Great looking boat with a lot of rot. The more I look at these videos the more I get turned off of using wood. I know, I know, if it's done right it will last a life time. My problem is I've never done this before. I've never owned a boat before. Now I have this boat that is rotten and I know I need to rebuild it. How can I be sure that I don't miss something and not have to do this again. I'm a little timid but can't wait to get in there either. Cost is a consideration, believe me. I've got a kid that is due in May and that's just going to kill any plans I have for anything else. Would love to have the boat ready to go so that I can take my wife out for small getaways here and there after the baby gets here but I don't know that I will be ready by then. Don't know that I will be ready by this time next year.
By the way, great info on the SeaRay Rebuild Frisco. I've learned a lot so far and I'm only up to the transom removal. Great stuff and I feel like I can at least deconstruct a boat with out destroying a boat by watching your videos. Thanks.
I'm still in the air on wood vs composites. I just look at what others have gone through and think why would you want to take the chance or putting something that can rot back in there.
Weighting my options. I may have to go back with wood. It would be easy to work with no doubt.

 

[zopperman]

Re: What have I gotten myself into? 1994 Capri 1700 LS

properly encapsulated wood + FRP will last 40+ years if maintained... you should have no reservations about its efficacy - it's just a matter of more work... wood must be cut, pre coated, resin + glassed etc....

I would use wood + prisma for the stringers if I were to do this again.

 

[Sevfdemt]

Re: What have I gotten myself into? 1994 Capri 1700 LS

I would use wood + prisma for the stringers if I were to do this again.

You would use wood AND Prisma for the stringers? Do you mean use the Prisma hull stiffeners and then use wood for the Stringers?

 

[zopperman]

Re: What have I gotten myself into? 1994 Capri 1700 LS

Sorry, unclear on my part.

and I revoke my previous statement

I'm not sure if you can screw into prisma... IF you can, i would use that for the stringers
then wood transom and deck encased in glass

 

[JDA1975]

Re: What have I gotten myself into? 1994 Capri 1700 LS

Don't worry about time, heck there are restores here that have taken years. It is, to me at least, about the fun of rebuilding something. Take your time, invest when you can afford to, and do it the way you want the first time. If it takes a while at least the finished project is how you envisioned it and you will enjoy it more!

The thing you really need to look at, and I am learning this myself right now, is the fact that this is your first boat, and first restore. Where will you be in 2 years..5 years, 10 years from now...will this boat still be what you want? if you do not think so then go the traditional method, get it right and use it until you find that "dream boat" then spend the high dollar to make that one last your lifetime and your kids lifetime.

I know I will enjoy my boat, but already find myself looking at bigger ones and thinking "hmmm..that would be nice to have" lol. if you know you will end up selling it down the road, try to keep it in a budget that can still net you enough profit to help purchase the next one (almost impossible on a restore!)

 

[Sevfdemt]

Re: What have I gotten myself into? 1994 Capri 1700 LS

OK, so I haven't posted for awhile. I have been busy getting things ready for this project. Mainly getting my shop cleaned out so that I can park the boat in there. Got that and the holidays out of the way, now it's time to start stripping this boat down to a hull. Got started today. Only worked for about an hour and a half. Got called out on a Fire Dept. call and got stuck on scene way to long waiting for a wrecker. Here are some pics of what I got done and what I found.



As you can see, I may have won the award for the wettest boat on the forum. This thing had 3 to 4 inches for standing water in the hull and the plywood was completely soaked all the way through. Something is blocking the water from draining under the gas tank to the drain hole out back. Ended up bailing it out with a 5 gallon bucket. Going to get the rest of it out with the shop-vac in the morning. I hope to make a day of it. Did get into the foam some, and just like everyone else on here that has done this, the foam is wet. I think I can make quick work of it though. I found that using a flat head shovel to dig this stuff out like dirt is working pretty well. Also, it looks like they laid some thin mil vis-queen before they poured the foam. I doesn't look like it has adhered to the hull, just the stringers. That may change though.
Here's my plan.
The Transom is probably mush which means I have to uncap this boat. I was going to uncap it, do the transom, and then recap and start on the stringers and deck. That way it will keep its form a little better.
Looking for some advice and comments here. Let fly.

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: What have I gotten myself into? 1994 Capri 1700 LS

Take some measurements at several locations across the width of the deck now so you will now exactly how the new deck needs to be when going back in. This will ensure the cap will fit back on. If you leave the boat on the trailer you can use nylon straps to help keep the hull from flexing out of shape.

 

[Sevfdemt]

Re: What have I gotten myself into? 1994 Capri 1700 LS

Didn't post after Friday like I meant to. Worked on gutting the boat again on Saturday. Got out slot of wet foam and wet plywood. This boat probably weight an extra 800 pounds just from the water saturation. The deck wasn't just damp, it was dripping wet. Starting to get in to some dry, but rotten stuff. Haven't tried to core the stringers yet. I don't see them surviving though.
Also pulled the rub rail off getting prepped to pull the cap. The transom has to be mush. Haven't cored that either but I can't really get to it right now.
I ended up bailing the boat out first from all the water that couldn't drain from the hull. Then it was constant wet-vac throughout the day. The boat is still bleeding nasty, stagnant, murky, blackish water. All the foam of coarse will have to come out before this boat will get dry. Don't have much further to go as far as that is concerned.
Going to buy a cheap grinder this weekend. Getting ready for the grind.

 

[oops!]

Re: What have I gotten myself into? 1994 Capri 1700 LS

actually......i love it when the foam just leaks and leaks water.....

you have no idea how good the boat will feel when its done.....light as a feather.....and strong !

 

[Sevfdemt]

Re: What have I gotten myself into? 1994 Capri 1700 LS

Didn't do a whole lot this weekend on the boat. Surely not what I wanted to get done. One interruption after another. Wanted to get the cap pulled this weekend but didn't get there. It did lead me to this question though. Does anyone have any idea what the pinkish colored stuff is around my splash well. It seems to be some sort of sealant between the cap/splash well and the transom. Having to bust it with a chisel and hammer. Smells really strong. It's hard to describe. It's really brittle now. Bout ready to break out a bottle jack and some small pieces of 2x4 to get this thing to separate. Just got to be patient.
Got another question. I have at my disposal some fiberglass sheets. Well, containers that I can cut into sheets. Like possibly 4x8 sheets at 1/8 to 3/16 thick. If I had enough, what does everyone think of laminating these to make my stringers? Just a thought.

 

[JDA1975]

Re: What have I gotten myself into? 1994 Capri 1700 LS

I am not sure what it is exactly but seems most boats splash wells are glued with it to the transom....I think it is to strengthen the transom by transferring some of the force to the cap as well...make it one solid spot for the motor....I cut the lip off my splashwell so I could hammer it out with a long chisel, since I couldn't get to it any other route