Water in bilge? Bilge pump runs too often.

[Chadbud]

Seems like no matter what conditions the weather or water is.. my bilge will pump 10-15 seconds of water out every time I run it..

If I’m on the water cruising or tubing for a few hours I’ll probably run it 6-8 times at least like this.

I have a 89’ 21 foot celebrity Cuddy cabin. Engine is a 5.7 mercruiser 4bbl with thru hull exhaust.

Outdrive is a mercruiser alpha 1 gen 2. Bellows look perfectly fine.. no cracks or wear. There is some orange/brown coloration around them but I believe that’s just oxidized metal dusting from the outdrive.
So where is the water coming from?!

Is it possible that it’s coming in from the thru hull exhaust? My exhaust flaps are pretty worn.. could it be them?

Let me know what you guys think?

 

[zool]

If your transom is getting compromised, it could be seeping in around the shield seam, when under a load. My SR170 is doing that around the alpha.

 

[Scott Danforth]

You should not have any water in the bilge

Being a 1989, highly suspect the transom is rotten

 

[Baylinerchuck]

If it’s not getting water in the bilge when running on muffs, then I would suspect the transom as well. I will say that my buddy had a Rinker with through the hull exhaust, and that thing leaked like crazy by the exhaust.

 

[Chadbud]

My outdrive is properly sealed with a very thick silicone. I have no reason to suspect it’s leaking through there. The transom is dry and not rotten, this was tested through taking drilled samples of the wood.

All points where the transom and hull are penetrated by anything are newly sealed at the beginning of the season. Besides, with the amount of water I’m getting in the boat.. there’s little to believe that the issue would be there anyway.

This water is getting into my bilge QUICKLY.. which tells me it’s something to do with my thru hull exhaust or my bellows. Upon visual inspection of my bellows, there’s no cracking or dry rotting visible.

Thanks for the replies so far guys, Any other ideas?

 

[Scott Danforth]

My outdrive is properly sealed with a very thick silicone.

this is red flag #1 that there is a problem. there is a gasket that should be sealing the outdrive. a thick bead of silly-cone means you bought the boat with the problem.

make a test drill of the transom (from the inside, 2" above the hull, about 1" deep). if the shavings are light-colored, dry and smell like fresh cut wood, you simply fill the test drill hole with marine tex.

if the shavings are dark, wet and smell like rotten wood. then you pull the drive, pull the motor and get itchy replacing the transom.

 

[Baylinerchuck]

Blue tooth bore scopes are fairly cheap and very handy. You can use this to snake around the transom looking for the leak. Also, check your shift cable bellows. Like Scott stated, silicon shouldn’t be surrounding the outdrive. This alone would cause me to suspect a transom issue. Silicon is good for bathrooms, kitchens, and house exteriors. It does not belong on a boat.

 

[Chadbud]

this is red flag #1 that there is a problem. there is a gasket that should be sealing the outdrive. a thick bead of silly-cone means you bought the boat with the problem.

make a test drill of the transom (from the inside, 2" above the hull, about 1" deep). if the shavings are light-colored, dry and smell like fresh cut wood, you simply fill the test drill hole with marine tex.

if the shavings are dark, wet and smell like rotten wood. then you pull the drive, pull the motor and get itchy replacing the transom.

Did this! Dry wood all around.

I did check the bilge with the boat on the water yesterday and found my leak but I still can’t tell where it’s coming in exactly! Here is a video.. sorry for the weird orientation of the footage.

You can see in the center of where the drive comes into the bilge area, water squirting in 8-10 large drops at a time. Is this bellows? Mine look so perfect so I’m confused!

I do want to add that the seal around the transom looks like it’s actually a gasket. It’s thick and hard almost plastic in feeling. Can confirm it is not silicone so that was my mistake reporting it as such.

 

[tpenfield]

My guesses are . . .

1) rotting transom

2) corroding Y-pipe or related gasket

3) shift cable bellows clip missing

4) cooling system leak

Is there a prize for the 'winner' ?

 

[Baylinerchuck]

It’s really hard to tell from the video and since water will travel along cables, shafts, wiring, etc it can be hard to pinpoint. I had a tough time finding a pesky leak in the transom on mine after I restored it. I had to use a bore scope to find it. One of my transom plate bolts wasn’t sealing properly. It looked like the y-pipe at first because how the water was traveling. The bore scope was key in finding it. Any number of the things already mentioned can cause a leak, you’ll have to narrow it down some.

 

[tpenfield]

Steering pivot pin.

 

[Chadbud]

So I’ve ruled out definitely not the bellows, transom, or wood! Reply incoming..

 

[Chadbud]

It’s really hard to tell from the video and since water will travel along cables, shafts, wiring, etc it can be hard to pinpoint. I had a tough time finding a pesky leak in the transom on mine after I restored it. I had to use a bore scope to find it. One of my transom plate bolts wasn’t sealing properly. It looked like the y-pipe at first because how the water was traveling. The bore scope was key in finding it. Any number of the things already mentioned can cause a leak, you’ll have to narrow it down some.

My guesses are . . .

1) rotting transom

2) corroding Y-pipe or related gasket

3) shift cable bellows clip missing

4) cooling system leak

Is there a prize for the 'winner' ?

Steering pivot pin.

The water seems to *squirt* in as the waves/wakes come and go… or perhaps that’s unrelated and it just comes in every few seconds in little bursts. But it’s definitely leaking in at about 1-2 oz each time. I’m not sure if that’s relevant or not.

I don’t think it’s the transom.. the wood is dry everywhere I checked with a drill.. also I don’t think it would leak in like that from a rotted transom.. but I’m also not an expert. Today I did check the gasket/seal around the transom and it looks good.

I did just confirm with the marina that sold me the boat 2 years ago that the bellows were professionally replaced before I bought the boat.

My current suspicion is that it is something with the water cooling loop or the “Y pipe” which I’m unfamiliar as to what that even is or does. A little education there would be greatly appreciated! I also am not familiar with steering pivot pin, is this a likely culprit as well?

Thank you all so very much for your help so far. I’m doing as much research as I can in my free time at work to understand all of these systems to narrow this issue down! Your input is valued and I check this post about every hour for any responses!

 

[Baylinerchuck]

The seawater intake tube is lower than your leak. It’s also pressurized by the water pump in the outdrive. If it was leaking water would be spraying everywhere when the boat was running. I reread your original post. You have through the hull exhaust, it doesn’t appear in the video that your y-pipes are there. Again, that connects to the gimbal bearing housing lower than your leak. It appears the leak is as high, or higher than the u-joint bellows. You may need to pull the outdrive to drill down further. I’m starting to sound like a broken record. Get a blue tooth bore scope camera. They are cheap.

 

[Chadbud]

The seawater intake tube is lower than your leak. It’s also pressurized by the water pump in the outdrive. If it was leaking water would be spraying everywhere when the boat was running. I reread your original post. You have through the hull exhaust, it doesn’t appear in the video that your y-pipes are there. Again, that connects to the gimbal bearing housing lower than your leak. It appears the leak is as high, or higher than the u-joint bellows. You may need to pull the outdrive to drill down further. I’m starting to sound like a broken record. Get a blue tooth bore scope camera. They are cheap.

This is just so bizarre to me.. how many entrance points could there possibly be for liquid to leak in at this rate? But I hear what you’re saying and I purchased a blue tooth bore scope camera! It will be here Thursday and I’m excited to use it.

You’re saying drill further down? Into what? It seems absurd to me that this could be from water leaking through the wood in my transom. I’ve pulled multiple samples from around the outdrive as well as the rest of the transom and all are dry. I’m curious if this is something more simple like a hose clamp being loose or slipped off one of the bellows. Would it be helpful if I put the boat on muffs in my driveway and see if I still get the leak?

Also, the leak -seems- to be happening regardless if my boat is running or not when it’s in the water. Could this have anything to do with my thru hull exhaust? The little exhaust flaps on it are notably worn

 

[Scott Danforth]

I still say it's the transom

 

[Baylinerchuck]

When I said drill down, I mean investigate further, not literally get a drill and……well, you know. Glad you’re getting the bore scope. That’s a handy tool.
As far as entrances for water, the whole outdrive is an entrance for water. There’s lots of things it could be.

 

[briangcc]

You’re saying drill further down? Into what? It seems absurd to me that this could be from water leaking through the wood in my transom. I’ve pulled multiple samples from around the outdrive as well as the rest of the transom and all are dry. I’m curious if this is something more simple like a hose clamp being loose or slipped off one of the bellows. Would it be helpful if I put the boat on muffs in my driveway and see if I still get the leak?

Also, the leak -seems- to be happening regardless if my boat is running or not when it’s in the water. Could this have anything to do with my thru hull exhaust? The little exhaust flaps on it are notably worn

If the wood in your transom is rotten/missing, then the inner & outer transom fiberglass will flex and can cause a leak.

Here's a visual for you....

Take 2 pieces of paper and cover each side of a sheet of plywood - any thickness. Basically a paper - plywood sandwich if you will. Try bending it. Now remove the plywood from the sandwich. Try bending again.


What Scott's driving at is that given that your boat is an antique, unless someone has been there before you and restored it the chances are VERY good that the transom (and stringers) are rotten/mulch/dust and require further investigation.


As you're an I/O powered boat, and given its happening whether the engine is running or not, have you had the bellows replaced?? I don't care what they look like visually, have they been replaced say in the past 2 years?

 

[Chadbud]

If the wood in your transom is rotten/missing, then the inner & outer transom fiberglass will flex and can cause a leak.

Here's a visual for you....

Take 2 pieces of paper and cover each side of a sheet of plywood - any thickness. Basically a paper - plywood sandwich if you will. Try bending it. Now remove the plywood from the sandwich. Try bending again.


What Scott's driving at is that given that your boat is an antique, unless someone has been there before you and restored it the chances are VERY good that the transom (and stringers) are rotten/mulch/dust and require further investigation.


As you're an I/O powered boat, and given its happening whether the engine is running or not, have you had the bellows replaced?? I don't care what they look like visually, have they been replaced say in the past 2 years?

I understand that, also I do appreciate the visual. What I’ve been saying though, is that I’ve taken samples from a half a dozen points in the entire transom as well as around the outdrive and there’s no wet/rotted/contaminated wood. It’s all light colored dry wood shavings coming out of the drill. For water to be leakin through the outdrive seal I would expect to have at least found some evidence of contaminated wood. The deck has no soft spots or signs of water damage either. The boat was owned by a marina mechanic since it was new before me and he kept it indoor storage it’s entire life.

Yes, bellows we’re replaced March 31st 2020. I’m going to try and get some better pictures of everything to post tomorrow.

 

[Chadbud]

When I said drill down, I mean investigate further, not literally get a drill and……well, you know. Glad you’re getting the bore scope. That’s a handy tool.
As far as entrances for water, the whole outdrive is an entrance for water. There’s lots of things it could be.

Good point!
What would you recommend I look for first when I have the bore camera? Also, would I be able to gain any more info by running the boat on muffs right now? It’s trailered in my driveway.