Volvo Penta 5.7 GSi PLKD timing mark out of scale

[it9ozs]

Hello guys, my name is Salvatore from Italy. I need your help to solve mi problem.
I can't understand what's happening in this engine! Let me to explane...
Engine: Volvo Penta 5.7 GSi PLKD (s/n 4110144796)
Totally remanufactured by myself (pistons, rings, bearings and all the rest....).
After the first start, I tried to adjust the ignition timing at 8 deg. BTDC. Impossible to do...or there is something wrong...

- Base timing mode done using jumper wire and rinda scan tool too
- Timing light at spark plug wire #1

Using the timing light at 0°, the timing mark on the balancer, appare at 12 o'clock (or so), out of scale.
Adjusting the timing light to read the spark advance, the mark go to zero at about 35° BTDC!!
(See the picture attached).

Checks carried out:
- Timing chain and the alignment is right as manual says, but I verified the correct position of the valves and piston with the #1 at TDC and timing marks aligned;
- Ignition module sems working, I tried another one used and result same issue
- Cap, rotor, spark plugs, wires and ignition coil are new
- Knock sensor is working, verified by oscilloscope
- Harness and connectors are good
- Connections from ECM (MEFI 1-2) to sensors are ok
- Grounds, +12 Volts and +5 Volts to ECM and sensors are ok
If I rotate the distributor to adjust the timing, the engine goes bad and dies.

I have somethins to check more:
- Crankshaft balancer (is the same of 4.3 MPI, could be possible?)
- Timing scale fixed with bolts to the timing cover
- Knock module
- Timing light (if is working right)
Somebody can helps me please?

P.S.
Sorry for my english....
Thank you

 

[alldodge]

Agree something is off.

Crankshaft balancer (is the same of 4.3 MPI, could be possible?)

Are you saying your using a 4.3 balancer instead of the 5.7?

Make sure the firing order is correct? 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2
If it is then maybe the balancer outer ring has slipped. Rotate the motor around to #1 TDC and see if it aligns on timing mark at zero

 

[it9ozs]

Agree something is off.


Are you saying your using a 4.3 balancer instead of the 5.7?

Make sure the firing order is correct? 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2
If it is then maybe the balancer outer ring has slipped. Rotate the motor around to #1 TDC and see if it aligns on timing mark at zero

No, the balancer is not changed, but I compared with 4.3 mpi mercruiser and is the same. Outer ring is fixed in place and not slipped. If I rotate by hand, all marks aligns correctly. Firing order is correct too...
This engine make me crazy!

 

[alldodge]

ok, number 1 cyl is port side front

What are the other markings on the balancer

 

[Lou C]

OK the white line on the harmonic balancer should be at zero on the timing tab when your #1 cyl is at Top Dead Center on the compression stroke, this is what you have to verify. So when the white line and the zero mark on the timing tab line up, your engine should be at TDC for the compression stroke for #1 cylinder.

 

[it9ozs]

ok, number 1 cyl is port side front
View attachment 353008
What are the other markings on the balancer
View attachment 353009

The other marks was made from me. I was trying to repeat the scale on the balancer. About cylinder location, is correct....

 

[it9ozs]

OK the white line on the harmonic balancer should be at zero on the timing tab when your #1 cyl is at Top Dead Center on the compression stroke, this is what you have to verify. So when the white line and the zero mark on the timing tab line up, your engine should be at TDC for the compression stroke for #1 cylinder.

Verified....I opened valve cover and timing cover, checked for points aligned on timing gears and checked for both valves of cylinder #1 completely closed. After that I reinstalled the timing cover and all marks aligns correctly...
Another issue is rich condition and hard starting. I can feel smell of gas and spark plugs are fouled. Checked all sensors...MAP was wrong (3 bar instead 1 bar) and changed with Automotive 1 bar (waiting for Marine parts), TPS (from automotive market too) has 0.7 volts at idle and I modified the mounting holes for rotate it little bit and now the voltage is 0.5 (waiting for Marine parts...), IAC valve is from automotive too. I want to change it with Marine part. Maybe the hold owner was saving his money....
I can't find TPS and IAC part number because are obsolete parts.
I will solve this problem, but this situation is not easy

 

[alldodge]

The other marks was made from me. I was trying to repeat the scale on the balancer. About cylinder location, is correct....

I would have to remove the valve cover and recheck valve position. Being 35* at it still being able to idle just doesn't add up

 

[it9ozs]

I would have to remove the valve cover and recheck valve position. Being 35* at it still being able to idle just doesn't add up

Sorry...25* not 35...tomorrow afternoon I will try to make a video and more pictures for details

 

[alldodge]

Check your fuel pressure 50-60 psi
If its real low there may be an issue

 

[bruceb58]

So when the white line and the zero mark on the timing tab line up, your engine should be at TDC for the compression stroke for #1 cylinder.

It could be at TDC for the exhaust stroke as well.

 

[it9ozs]

Check your fuel pressure 50-60 psi
If its real low there may be an issue

According to the manual for this engine, equipped with TBI, the high fuel pressure is 11 ÷ 13 PSI and low fuel pressure 5 ÷ 8 PSI and are both in range. I opened the VST and checked and adjusted float level.

 

[it9ozs]

It could be at TDC for the exhaust stroke as well.

The engine is correctly a TDC.. I will try another timing light...

 

[it9ozs]

Hi guys, I tried another timing light and is the same... I noticed something strange. If set the timing light for 2 stroke engines, I can see correctly the timing mark alignet to the fixed scale!...anyway there are other issues...for example hard starting. It needs long time crank before to start, or turn key to run position 2 or 3 times before the engine start. never happened to me something like this!

 

[kenny nunez]

I am not familiar with your wiring harness but try checking if you have 12 volts at the +or bat side of your coil while in cranking mode. I realize this has nothing to do with the timing but might help in starting. Is the fuel pressure present while cranking also?

 

[it9ozs]

I am not familiar with your wiring harness but try checking if you have 12 volts at the +or bat side of your coil while in cranking mode. I realize this has nothing to do with the timing but might help in starting. Is the fuel pressure present while cranking also?

Well, I have spark all time. Talking about fuel pressure, yes, but after priming, pressure go down, during cranking the pressure go up again to 12 ÷ 13 PSI

 

[bruceb58]

You have your timing light on the #1 cylinder? That's the forward one on the port side of the boat.

 

[it9ozs]

You have your timing light on the #1 cylinder? That's the forward one on the port side of the boat.

Yes, is correct......

 

[it9ozs]

Hi guys, timing mark problem solved!
Was an incorrect spark plug wires routing! This condition was create some crossfiring. Remaining some other problems...like as hard starting. See video attached, but resized!!
I will open another post....

 

[kenny nunez]

One thing I remember about Volvo ignition switches is that the key has to be rotated about 180* which is their version of the “by pass” circuit that puts 12 volts to the ignition. If the boat this engine was in has that style of ignition switch may be the reason it takes more time for the engine to fire up.
I know you said it has a spark in cranking but it may be strong enough.