Volvo Penta 5.7 GSi PLKD timing mark out of scale

[it9ozs]

One thing I remember about Volvo ignition switches is that the key has to be rotated about 180* which is their version of the “by pass” circuit that puts 12 volts to the ignition. If the boat this engine was in has that style of ignition switch may be the reason it takes more time for the engine to fire up.
I know you said it has a spark in cranking but it may be strong enough.

In the previous message there was a video, but maybe can't see...I uploaded on YouTube

The engine is on ground. I don't know what kind of problem is. New ignition coil, spark plugs, spark plug wires, cap, rotor, ICM and pickup coil.

 

[kenny nunez]

Just to be sure check the voltage that powers the coil while cranking and running.

 

[it9ozs]

Just to be sure check the voltage that powers the coil while cranking and running.

Thanks, I will check. But using spark test lamp, I can see a good spark.

 

[Scott06]

Thanks, I will check. But using spark test lamp, I can see a good spark.

Verify you don’t have a voltage drop during cranking. Id think if you have really good spark it would start instantly.

maybe dump a little gas down the throttle body then see if it changes the way it starts . If it gets better that points to fuel issues, if no change would think that means spark issues.
you have good compression test numbers and manifold vacum is good When running?

 

[it9ozs]

Verify you don’t have a voltage drop during cranking. Id think if you have really good spark it would start instantly.

maybe dump a little gas down the throttle body then see if it changes the way it starts . If it gets better that points to fuel issues, if no change would think that means spark issues.
you have good compression test numbers and manifold vacum is good When running?

Today I tested drop voltage at the ignition coil. The voltage drop down to 9 volts. I tested the battery and was bad.
Now I have a good battery, tested again and the voltage at the ignition coil drop down to 10,2 volts.
Compression and vacuum are good.
I ordered a new IAC valve and test again. I noticed that the engine sometimes the rpm at idle fluctuate and stalls. I checked for fuel pressure when the problem comes, but is good and stable. No fuel leaking anyware....
I will replace IAC valve and TPS.
Tomorrow I will do a deep check to the engine harness for bed connection, voltage dispersion and grounds....

 

[Scott06]

Today I tested drop voltage at the ignition coil. The voltage drop down to 9 volts. I tested the battery and was bad.
Now I have a good battery, tested again and the voltage at the ignition coil drop down to 10,2 volts.
Compression and vacuum are good.
I ordered a new IAC valve and test again. I noticed that the engine sometimes the rpm at idle fluctuate and stalls. I checked for fuel pressure when the problem comes, but is good and stable. No fuel leaking anyware....
I will replace IAC valve and TPS.
Tomorrow I will do a deep check to the engine harness for bed connection, voltage dispersion and grounds....

Yes fluctuating idle and stall is typically the IAC valve or the filter for it. i thought yours was throttle body injected not mpi, didnt think that has a iac

 

[it9ozs]

Yes fluctuating idle and stall is typically the IAC valve or the filter for it. i thought yours was throttle body injected not mpi, didnt think that has a iac

Yes, usually fluctuating is IAC valve. In my TBI (Y45-2) the iac valve is flanged type.

 

[it9ozs]

Hi guys, finally I found the problem...The problem is the engine!...Let me to explain...
The engine has not the label with serial number, using the s/n in the certificate, I loock up for parts diagram and the engine looks like different.
Volvo penta 5.7 GSi has roller lifters and cam, the engine examined not...it has non-roller lifters.
The engine (in my shop) casting number, resuts to be a 1985 corvette engine.
I searched for camshaft specs and compared to the Volvo Penta service manual, are totally different!
The calibration file inside the MEFI1, can't work correctly.
The valves timing and valve opened height are different than GSi engines with roller cam.
In this conditions I have 3 possibility:
- Convert the engine from EFI to totally mechanic with carburetor and classic distributor;
- Send the MEFI1 module for reprogram calibration files using the new engine specs;
- Find another engine block with roller camshaft.
What do you think?
Am I in the correct way or I'm thinking something wrong?

 

[Scott06]

Hi guys, finally I found the problem...The problem is the engine!...Let me to explain...
The engine has not the label with serial number, using the s/n in the certificate, I loock up for parts diagram and the engine looks like different.
Volvo penta 5.7 GSi has roller lifters and cam, the engine examined not...it has non-roller lifters.
The engine (in my shop) casting number, resuts to be a 1985 corvette engine.
I searched for camshaft specs and compared to the Volvo Penta service manual, are totally different!
The calibration file inside the MEFI1, can't work correctly.
The valves timing and valve opened height are different than GSi engines with roller cam.
In this conditions I have 3 possibility:
- Convert the engine from EFI to totally mechanic with carburetor and classic distributor;
- Send the MEFI1 module for reprogram calibration files using the new engine specs;
- Find another engine block with roller camshaft.
What do you think?
Am I in the correct way or I'm thinking something wrong?

Another likely difference is the original engine (assume 96 or newer) had Vortec heads, 85 would not have vortec heads, big airflow and hp difference between them . If your block has the bosses for roller lifter guides swap in the proper marine cam and lifters, vortec heads if needed

 

[it9ozs]

Another likely difference is the original engine (assume 96 or newer) had Vortec heads, 85 would not have vortec heads, big airflow and hp difference between them . If your block has the bosses for roller lifter guides swap in the proper marine cam and lifters, vortec heads if needed

The engine block is totally different....I think somebody in the past, after some problems, decided to find another unit....I can't install the roller cam and lifters in this engine because is for flat lifters

 

[Lou C]

Interesting someone replaced a late model (96+) Vortec/roller cam with a 1st gen small block with flat tappet cam and painted it the correct Volvo red….
To determine if it has pre Vortec heads vs Vortec heads..check the # of bolts holding down the intake manifold; 12= Pre Vortec; 8= Vortec. It is possible to put a pair of Vortec heads and manifolds on a pre Vortec block. Another difference is that a 1985 probably has a 2 piece rear main seal (I think they changed in 1986) and uses a different flywheel. You’d want to know if the Volvo coupler will work with that flywheel; is this going into a boat with the AQ or SC series drive system?
You could make it work with a simple 4 bbl carb & Delco EST ignition system. Honestly trying to adapt an EFI system to an engine not designed for it might be more trouble that it’s worth. There are EFI systems made for classic GM V8 but they may not be set up right for marine use or Coast Guard approved. Interestingly the throttle cable bracket looks like the ones used on the Vortec heads. Can’t tell for sure without a better pic.

 

[it9ozs]

Interesting someone replaced a late model (96+) Vortec/roller cam with a 1st gen small block with flat tappet cam and painted it the correct Volvo red….
To determine if it has pre Vortec heads vs Vortec heads..check the # of bolts holding down the intake manifold; 12= Pre Vortec; 8= Vortec. It is possible to put a pair of Vortec heads and manifolds on a pre Vortec block. Another difference is that a 1985 probably has a 2 piece rear main seal (I think they changed in 1986) and uses a different flywheel. You’d want to know if the Volvo coupler will work with that flywheel; is this going into a boat with the AQ or SC series drive system?
You could make it work with a simple 4 bbl carb & Delco EST ignition system. Honestly trying to adapt an EFI system to an engine not designed for it might be more trouble that it’s worth. There are EFI systems made for classic GM V8 but they may not be set up right for marine use or Coast Guard approved. Interestingly the throttle cable bracket looks like the ones used on the Vortec heads. Can’t tell for sure without a better pic.

I confirm 8 bolts for intake manifold and 2 pc rear main seal. I was surprised when found some drilled hole in the flywheel!! I didn't remove the engine from boat, the owner pick it up and come to my shop. The outdrive is SX drive. I can install the carburetor, but how can I do with EST? Don't I need some module for spark advance? I could install a vacuum controlled distributor, but I don't like to operate in this conditions. I showed all to the owner and he want to find another engine block to swap all parts. I can send some pictures as casting number....

 

[Lou C]

What ignition system is on it now? You might already have it lol. Any ignition system you use has to be marine certified, and no marine distributor that I have ever seen used vacuum advance, that's for an auto set up only.
So yeah someone took a mid 80s pre Vortec pre one piece main seal engine and put a set of Vortec heads and intake, but used a late model throttle body fuel injection system. I don't know enough about how those systems were calibrated to say whether or not you can make the injection that's on it now work, not saying it can't be done though. What do the spark plugs look like? Is it running rich or lean? The Vortec engines had problems with the intake gaskets, so bad running could be a few vacuum leaks and nothing more. Might be worth checking for that before you do anything else.
In your vid it appears that you have a vacuum gauge hooked up to it, and it looks like 12" of mercury at idle, that sounds low to me, should be more like 16-18.

 

[kenny nunez]

What you have there is a dog of mixed unknown parentage, here in New Orleans known as a Ki-yoodle. I have had that sort of thing end up in my shop, a loose-loose situation.
Holes drilled in the flywheel is no problem, all solid styles have them.
If the owner wants to do it right he should buy a new marine short block of the correct model so that it will run correctly.
Otherwise put a marine carburetor and a Delco Voyager ignition as Lou said you may already have. The downside here is also all the time you have spent trying to cure someone’s problem that cannot be solved.

 

[it9ozs]

What ignition system is on it now? You might already have it lol. Any ignition system you use has to be marine certified, and no marine distributor that I have ever seen used vacuum advance, that's for an auto set up only.
So yeah someone took a mid 80s pre Vortec pre one piece main seal engine and put a set of Vortec heads and intake, but used a late model throttle body fuel injection system. I don't know enough about how those systems were calibrated to say whether or not you can make the injection that's on it now work, not saying it can't be done though. What do the spark plugs look like? Is it running rich or lean? The Vortec engines had problems with the intake gaskets, so bad running could be a few vacuum leaks and nothing more. Might be worth checking for that before you do anything else.
In your vid it appears that you have a vacuum gauge hooked up to it, and it looks like 12" of mercury at idle, that sounds low to me, should be more like 16-18.

 

[it9ozs]

The ignition system is EST. I know about approved systems infact I will not install other systems. EST distributor has controlled by MEFI1 in this case. In other case there is a module that control spark advance. All modules, I think, will programmed to work based on engine specification (referred to valve timing). MEFI1, works for specific valve timing. The GSI cam (say the service manual) close completely all valves at 11 BTDC and spark advance must be setted to 10 BTDC. The actual camshaft close all valves at 16 BTDC and open other valves, in times, before the GSI camshaft. Infact, if I set the spark advance at 10 BTDC, it starts very bad, poor acceleration and stalls at idle. The engine works much better if I set spark timing at 16 BTDC. I mentioned vacuum distributor, because it can adjust the spark advance based to the engine vacuum.
In my video you can see the fuel pressure gauge. The vacuum is good at 16.
The spark plugs results very smoky and not wet.
The only correct way to solve this problem, is change the engine block

 

[it9ozs]

What you have there is a dog of mixed unknown parentage, here in New Orleans known as a Ki-yoodle. I have had that sort of thing end up in my shop, a loose-loose situation.
Holes drilled in the flywheel is no problem, all solid styles have them.
If the owner wants to do it right he should buy a new marine short block of the correct model so that it will run correctly.
Otherwise put a marine carburetor and a Delco Voyager ignition as Lou said you may already have. The downside here is also all the time you have spent trying to cure someone’s problem that cannot be solved.

You said right! I don't care about the time spent, I like do all my best to solve the problem...I explained the problem to the owner and told him to find another engine. I'm sorry for him, but is the only correct way.
In US those engines has no secret for you, but in Italy there are really few people that you can call specialist!...At the moment I didn't know no one!
I like to study from manuals and really understand at all!
Thank you guys and sorry for my English.

 

[it9ozs]

I didn't mentioned all problems found...wrong MAP sensor, wrong VST float height, bad engine harness, bad injectors......I started to assembly the engine in the end of September, and after first start, I was not happy...and now I understood why....

 

[Lou C]

Your English is fine, up here in New York they would call that a Franken-motor, very hard to make it work right, you might have some luck if you find a shop that specializes in American Muscle cars from the 60s and 70s, they will know all about Chevrolet small blocks....
I'm not sure if the Delco EST needs the ECM to operate, I think it only needs it if you want the knock sensor function, but I could be wrong about that. This engine with a Vortec 4 bbl intake manifold and a Edelbrock 1409 or a Holley 4160 might run fine, but with the carbs there is always some experimentation with jetting that may need to be done, as well as with accelerator pump settings and power valves. That job someone did on the flywheel looks bad to me....

 

[it9ozs]

Your English is fine, up here in New York they would call that a Franken-motor, very hard to make it work right, you might have some luck if you find a shop that specializes in American Muscle cars from the 60s and 70s, they will know all about Chevrolet small blocks....
I'm not sure if the Delco EST needs the ECM to operate, I think it only needs it if you want the knock sensor function, but I could be wrong about that. This engine with a Vortec 4 bbl intake manifold and a Edelbrock 1409 or a Holley 4160 might run fine, but with the carbs there is always some experimentation with jetting that may need to be done, as well as with accelerator pump settings and power valves. That job someone did on the flywheel looks bad to me....

Thanks. Well, I could try to install the carburetor, but I don't like the idea to have a frankestein engine. I prefer to find another engine block and maintain the original specs....
I'm sorry for this engine block...it has new cylinder sleeves, very good crankshaft (standard size), new bearings, cylinder head renewed....the engine is really clean.
I have to find a 1985 corvette owner...