vet spitting

Tinkerer

Senior Chief Petty Officer
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Mar 15, 2003
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Re: vet spitting

I suspect that it was deemed politically expedient not to charge her as the trial would have turned into a political circus which could only reinforce anti-war sentiment and further damage the government at a time when the Watergate scandal was unfolding. Fonda had the means and connections to get the best legal talent to take on the government in a courtroom in a case that would have taken years to complete the appeal process.<br /><br />Here's a summary of a relevant book.<br /><br />Aid and Comfort: Jane Fonda in North Vietnam <br /><br />Jane Fonda’s visit to Hanoi in July 1972 and her pro–North Vietnamese, anti–American conduct, especially her pose with an anti-aircraft gun used to shoot down American planes and her propaganda broadcasts directed toward American troops, angered many Americans. In their eyes, she was guilty of treason, but she was never charged by the American legal system. Instead, she has made millions, been the recipient of countless awards, and remained an honored American icon. <br /><br />This work investigates Fonda’s activities in North Vietnam and argues that she could have been indicted for treason, that there would have been enough evidence to take the case to a jury, that she could have been convicted, and that a conviction probably would have been upheld on appeal. It also considers Fonda’s early life and the effect it had on her behavior and beliefs in her later years, her audience of American POWs who were forced by the Vietnamese to listen to her broadcasts condemning them as war criminals, her arrival in Vietnam and how it was viewed by American servicemen and civilians, the crime of treason throughout history, and the only Congressional inquiry into her actions, which resulted in the government’s decision to take no legal action against her. Texts of Fonda’s radio broadcasts to American servicemen comprise the appendix.<br /><br />About the Author<br />Henry Mark Holzer is a professor emeritus at Brooklyn Law School. Erika Holzer is a lawyer, novelist and essayist. They live in Santa Fe, New Mexico. <br /><br /> http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/078641247X/002-1608134-8714449?v=glance
 

trollhole

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Sep 19, 2001
Messages
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Re: vet spitting

Originally posted by JB:<br /> Treason is treason. <br /><br />Hanoi Jane and the media "lost" that war for us.<br /><br />The media is still trying to lose the "war" in Iraq for us by trumpeting every enemy success and ignoring coalition successes and progress.<br /><br />Spitting on the broad was an undignified thing to do, but I sympathize with the guy's attitude.
Totally agree.<br /><br />And I see nothing wrong with a older man spitting on an older woman. As long as he is willing to pay the price. Which he was.
 

rodbolt

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Sep 1, 2003
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Re: vet spitting

tinkerer<br /> I agree that it was a political move to do nothing in that case. I also believe her actions could have been legally treasonous. however she has never been charged much less convicted and therfore can walk among the rest of us at will, I dont like it I just have to support her right. maybe the Vet can make some money selling his book about spitting on Jane fonda. who knows.
 

ae708

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jun 17, 2002
Messages
591
Re: vet spitting

I think it's childish of him to spit on her...too little, too late. But I do think that at the time that she was posing it would have been a good time for a Phantom to drop a load of nape on the site. I was in vietnam for 2 tours. About halfway through the second I started wondering what the hell we were doing there. We weren't accomplishing a thing other than getting killed. I am feeling the same way about Iraq. We need to get out of there and take care of the USA and stop trying to solve the rest of the world's problems.
 

ED21

Master Chief Petty Officer
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Aug 26, 2003
Messages
829
Re: vet spitting

To her credit, she's not pressing charges.<br />Maybe her recent apology is sincere.
 

SpinnerBait_Nut

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
Joined
Aug 25, 2002
Messages
17,651
Re: vet spitting

What the guy did was wrong. What she did in Nam was wrong.<br />They will both have to meet their makers one day and answer for their wrongs.<br />'nuff said.
 

Tinkerer

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Mar 15, 2003
Messages
760
Re: vet spitting

Originally posted by rodbolt:<br /> tinkerer<br /> I agree that it was a political move to do nothing in that case. I also believe her actions could have been legally treasonous. however she has never been charged much less convicted and therfore can walk among the rest of us at will, I dont like it I just have to support her right. maybe the Vet can make some money selling his book about spitting on Jane fonda. who knows.
You're right. She's entitled to be treated as innocent of any crime.<br /><br />But I think the spitting event is merely an expression of contempt for her actions which doesn't depend on her being found guilty of a crime.<br /><br />I don't like spitting and I think tcube made a strong point against it. Still, although I wouldn't do it myself, I wouldn't criticise the spitter in this case (if he really is a Vietnam veteran and not just some nut).<br /><br />The spitter has achieved an awful lot with that one little action. I bet the internet boards and bars and dinner tables and lunchrooms are burning up with just the sort of discussion we're having. It reminds everyone of what Jane did and informs a whole new generation or three of something about her they probably never knew. Stuffs up her requests for forgiveness very nicely and makes her squirm a bit about something she thought she'd got away with. <br /><br />People who weren't around then don't understand the bitterness the Vietnam war produced. I think people now generally seem to be able to distinguish between opposing wars their governments get them into; opposing their governments; and attacking the troops who have no choice but to serve in them, unlike the Vietnam era. People here who are opposed to our involvement in Iraq seem to be capable of supporting the troops while opposing the war.<br /><br />I was in army uniform in 1970 and, although it was rare, I copped a bit of hostility a few times. I even got into a fight late at night waiting alone at a bus-stop when a carload of passing morons yelled out some critical comments which I foolishly responded to in clear and direct language. <br /><br />I was on a ceremonial parade in 1970 where we anticipated trouble from protesters. Our RSM, who was mad as a cut snake and a heavily decorated soldier from Korea and Vietnam, was determined that protesters weren't going to get the unit colours. We were armed but without ammo. He drilled us into moving from marching order into a British square around the colours, front rank kneeling, rear rank standing, with bayonets fixed, with orders that nobody got through. The adjutant of the unit, who had also served in Vietnam, told me recently that that was the point at which he realised that things were screwed up beyond belief when we were training to attack our own citizens for exercising the rights we were supposed to be defending. At the time I was just a bit disappointed that nobody tried anything on us. A couple of years later, when my brain had grown some more and I started to think a bit, I attended a moratorium against the war. A year after that I was at university arguing with people who also opposed the war but who were sending money to North Vietnam, which I regarded as treasonable. It was a weird period.
 

gaugeguy

Captain
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Jun 4, 2003
Messages
3,564
Re: vet spitting

I wouldn't have done it, but I do hope it was a nice, thick, lung-butter loogie :rolleyes:
 

mattttt25

Commander
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Sep 29, 2002
Messages
2,661
Re: vet spitting

"i'd spit some beachnut in that dude's eye..."<br /><br />didn't hank sing that?
 

NYMINUTE

Captain
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Oct 6, 2003
Messages
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Re: vet spitting

Originally posted by gaugeguy:<br /> I wouldn't have done it, but I do hope it was a nice, thick, lung-butter loogie :rolleyes:
You Rock Gaugeguy. :D :D
 

90skichallenger

Petty Officer 1st Class
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Apr 18, 2005
Messages
234
Re: vet spitting

Let me add,<br />I would be happy to pay that dudes fine, and buy him a beer.
 

Fly Rod

Commander
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Oct 31, 2002
Messages
2,622
Re: vet spitting

:) That spat of tabacky is just another day in history!!!<br /><br />We must have allot of nothing to dos, today!!! ;) :cool:
 

Kenneth Brown

Captain
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Feb 3, 2003
Messages
3,481
Re: vet spitting

Originally posted by Tinkerer:<br /> rodbolt<br /><br />You're right that two wrongs don't make a right.<br /><br />
But it sure makes it closer to even.
 

KaGee

Admiral
Joined
Aug 14, 2004
Messages
7,069
Re: vet spitting

Originally posted by SBN:<br /> What the guy did was wrong. What she did in Nam was wrong.<br />They will both have to meet their makers one day and answer for their wrongs.<br />'nuff said.
And like my mama said... two wrongs never make a right!
 

Stratosfied

Ensign
Joined
Mar 14, 2003
Messages
915
Re: vet spitting

Is there a statue of limitations on treason?? I don't know. My dad got spit on in San Francisco in 1968 coming back from the war. I don't think the hippie would do that again. My dad got hammmered by the MP's and hassled a little. To this day, he still wishes he could have got his hand on a grenade.
 

bubbakat

Captain
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Oct 29, 2002
Messages
3,110
Re: vet spitting

Some may think it is wrong and it may be. Two wrongs don't make a right. If I had been there there would have been three wrongs done. I have absolutely no use for that woman at all.<br /><br />Thanks gauge that was good. I hope it was so thick it had to be hammered off.<br />One of these days I will come out and let you all know how I feel about that----
 

rodbolt

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Sep 1, 2003
Messages
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Re: vet spitting

tinkerer<br /> yep a very wiered time indeed.<br /> however I fear our current administration in the rush to do something has bogged us in the same wiered no win situation as last time. only this time the new govt is democratically elected and still hates us. <br /> I am in no way critizing the spitter just his actions. I read the Fonda was not prosecuting. I hope the state feels the same way. its funny though the guy spit and ran away :) :) . maybe he was worried the old lady would whup him in front of a camera :) .<br /> I have some cousins that got spit on in the sixties and one that was beaten faily severly while hitchiking back to Ft Rucker returning from a leave period . he did manage to put two of them in the hospital with him though and he was happy cause all were bleeding.<br /> was rather incongruous, a carload of peacenicks beating up a soldier returning to base hitchhiking, kinda like that eric rudolph killing innocents with terror bombs to protest what he considers murder.<br /> the big picture got fuzzy.<br /> sometimes there aint no "even"<br />just escalation
 

Link

Rear Admiral
Joined
Apr 13, 2003
Messages
4,221
Re: vet spitting

Originally posted by JB:<br /> Treason is treason. <br /><br />Hanoi Jane and the media "lost" that war for us.<br /><br />The media is still trying to lose the "war" in Iraq for us by trumpeting every enemy success and ignoring coalition successes and progress.<br /><br />Spitting on the broad was an undignified thing to do, but I sympathize with the guy's attitude.
I Agree!
 
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