transom and floor replacement

[mikemartyo]

hi - i have a '77 crestliner apollo 16 that needs a new transom, and probably a new floor.<br />my question for you is, how much fiberglas stuff should i look to purchase?<br />i also am planning to take the top of the boat off - <br />because the splash well is deep and i cannot get in there.<br />any other suggestions?<br /><br />i bought a great book on this topic - Runabout restoration - it seems to make this look "not that bad"<br /><br />Mike

 

[Chinewalker]

Re: transom and floor replacement

Hi Michael,<br /> Personally, I used about 5-gallons of West System 105 epoxy with related 206 slow hardener , and a lot of fiberglass cloth and mat. There are some suppliers who sell fiberglass remnants on eBay - leftovers from making hot tubs, boats, etc. which are perfect for repairs like ours. <br /> In reality, it isn't that bad. Lots of work, but nothing difficult. It's basically like building a model kit in real scale! Cut out the piece and glue/screw it in. The hardest part is the prep work - getting the inside gutted and dried out. I've done two runabouts and am nibbling away at a third. I've found that when I devote time to it on a regular basis it goes quickly. Both of the ones I've done took about a month of steady work, although the second one stretched out over a year before I worked on it in earnest. The third one is kinda taking that course as well. <br /> I'm just up the road a bit, north of Watertown. Ever get up to the Islands?<br />- Scott

 

[mikemartyo]

Re: transom and floor replacement

my family has a camp on brantingham lake - near Lowville, Booneville - this is my driveway boat. i bought it basically because i wanted to learn fiberglass repair and that sort of stuff. <br />it has an 85 horse johnson and the previous owner had reinforced the transom with 2x6 planking - so I will plan to rip off the engine, and the top deck so i can get the transom back on before black fly season is over.<br /><br />i have not gotten up to the river, but i have several friends with 30 and 40 footers that keep them up there.<br />Mike

 

[mikemartyo]

Re: transom and floor replacement

another question - i have a friend with a car dealership and body shop - do you think it would be a good idea to work with them on glass and epoxy or would it be different stuff?

 

[Chinewalker]

Re: transom and floor replacement

Hi Mike,<br /> The kind of work you're doing is easy compared to what a body shop would be doing. They're more concerned with how it looks, whereas what you're doing won't be visible. Finish work vs. structural. You'll be using wood, glass and epoxy, whereas they'd likely be using polyester resin and Bondo. If you had exterior finish work to do they might be able to help out, but probably not much on the transom and stringers part of your project...<br />- Scott

 

[mikemartyo]

Re: transom and floor replacement

ok - so unless they repaired lots of corvettes, they wouldnt have the right stuff

 

[Bondo]

Re: transom and floor replacement

I'd bet you can buy Epoxy On-Line,.... Cheaper than your Bud buys it locally...........<br /><br />The Bodyshop Guys will be a Good Resourse for when you're ready to Paint,.......<br /><br />That's Really the Same Thing,......<br /> <br />I shoot My boats with an Automotive 2-pt Ureathane Paint,+ have had No Issues,... <br />Even the Underwater areas of Dockboats.......<br />

my family has a camp on brantingham lake

I've got friends with a place over in back of your place,........ Over on Stoney Pond...... <br /><br />Hi Scott,..... Things looking like Spring up at the Landing,.??....<br />The Ice is starting to break up in Chaumont.......

 

[andy6374]

Re: transom and floor replacement

Michael 0-<br />This is a decent size project. With a deck and floor you can pretty much plan on at least 10 gallons of resin. Like Chinewalker said, no go the Bondo. But building everything with polyester or vinylester resin vs. epoxy is fine. <br /><br />All fiberglass boats are built polyester. There is NO need to go with epoxy unless you are building a fully wooden boat. You probably find 5 gallons buckets of polyester resin in the $100-120 range and vinylester $140-170, this is where you can save some money.<br /><br />You will probably end up using ~50 yards @ ~ 38" for the project.

 

[mikemartyo]

Re: transom and floor replacement

ok - now how about the marine plywood - i think i should probably have marine grade stuff for the transom, but what about the floor? can i use pressure treated stuff?<br />i have been reading where people are just using CDX for the floor - standard exterior stuff.<br /><br />see this link - http://forums.iboats.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=26;t=004397#000012

 

[BLU LUNCH]

Re: transom and floor replacement

The guys on the Wellcraft V-20 site swear by "Seacast" it's pourable permament transom repair.... Seacast Repair

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: transom and floor replacement

Michael O, they pressure tresated wood today is not treated against water, that was the old creasote. the new stuff is very caustic, eats metal fasteners. if you watch the home improvment shows, you will see them using composite barriers (rubber,etc) between the pressure treated and metal objects. drilling their holes larger than the bolts and putting a piece of cut hose over the bolt to isolate it from the wood. so using pressure is not and advantage. use an exterior atleast a 5 ply, and make sure it is completely sealed. 35 years as a general contractor.

 

[BillP]

Re: transom and floor replacement

Mike,<br />The amount of resin you use really depends on how you glass the project. Calculate about 1oz of resin for every oz of glass. Mat is calculated by the sq ft and heavy woven roven by the square yd. Example: <br />1.5oz mat = 1.5 oz of resin per sq FT......<br />18oz woven roven = 18 oz of resin per sq YD or 2oz sq ft. Add whatever for varience and waste.<br /><br />You may want to consider cutting the splashwell out instead of taking the deck off. It's a LOT easier than taking the deck off. <br /><br />I used CCA pt on a boat, it works fine and is still available at HomeDepot types. The "newer" process is ok if you use stainless or HOT galvanized fasteners. Sleeving is for cold galvanizing, plain steel or aluminum, etc fasteners. Any of the pt ply can sit exposed for yrs in the elements and give no problem. <br /><br /><br />Here's pics of the splashwell... <br /><br />

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<br /><br />

 

[mikemartyo]

Re: transom and floor replacement

well i cut the back deck off, right by the splashwell, your idea would have worked nicely, oh well, timing.<br />I found lots of rot and i was able to get all of the old wood out.<br />now i have to finish the removal of the wood, and do the floor as well, but what did you use to get rid of all the oxidation on the gelcoat?<br />my favorite tool for getting rid of old wood and nasty fiberglass is a "flap disk" for my grinder - i have a 60 grit and it works great if you are gentle!<br /><br /><br /> http://images.kodakgallery.com/servlet/Images/photos1869/1/77/38/55/1/8/801553877106_0_BG.jpg?a=9 <br /> http://images.kodakgallery.com/servlet/Images/photos1869/1/77/48/22/48/7/748224877106_0_BG.jpg?a=9 <br /> http://images.kodakgallery.com/photos1869/1/77/48/13/77/1/177134877106_0_ALB.jpg <br /> http://images.kodakgallery.com/servlet/Images/photos1636/1/97/62/92/50/7/750926297106_0_BG.jpg?a=2 <br /> http://images.kodakgallery.com/servlet/Images/photos1636/1/97/62/92/80/4/480926297106_0_BG.jpg?a=2

 

[mikemartyo]

Re: transom and floor replacement

another question...<br />can i use pressure treated plywood for the floor, and just glass the sides to the wall of the boat? then leave the rest bare (devoid of glass) for cost savings?<br />fiberglass over plywood just adds water resistance, not strength if it is a floor right?<br /><br />I was just thinking that i could save $50 in resin and glass by skipping this step. i will be covering the floor with carpet and it should not matter (to me) if it is glassed in.<br /><br />what do you think?

 

[mikemartyo]

Re: transom and floor replacement

http://www.kodakgallery.com/I.jsp?c=18um5tsi.4cmapqfm&x=0&h=1&y=-92yhtz <br /><br />try that link to see the pictures

 

[BillP]

Re: transom and floor replacement

I used paint to get rid of the oxidation.<br /> <br /><br />I used 3/4" pt ply with epoxy on that boat floor and only glassed the edges in. The bottom and top of the floor were only coated with resin. Two thinned coats and two full coats as each tacked in one session. No problems after a few yrs now and I don't anticipate any later. Once epoxy is down it doesn't move. It pulled the grain off samples I made when prying hard.

 

[Chinewalker]

Re: transom and floor replacement

Hi Michael,<br /> I would skip the PT idea entirely. Not good if you're planning on installing seats or anything else later as the chemicals will eat up screws and such. I've also seen some PT woods that didn't take epoxy very well. Might have been too wet - not sure.<br /><br /> Use high grade exterior plywood for the floor and transom and you'll be fine. You're encapsulating everything anyway, so water "shouldn't" get in. As long as everything is sealed and drains properly you shouldn't have a problem and it will likely outlast you. Marine grade is really only necessary where it comes into contact with water on a full time basis, .ie exterior planking on a wooden boat. Inside the boat it's not necessary. As was pointed out, use 5-ply exterior with epoxy and you'll be good to go...<br />- Scott

 

[studlymandingo]

Re: transom and floor replacement

Nice pics! Have you created a floor rot coffee mug yet? <br /><br />Definitely no PT Plywood! Seal up the exterior grade as everyone suggests. I wish I had some pics, but I did a floor replacement on an old 6o's ArrowGlass boat; used pt, and the fastners I used to secure the seats were eaten up. I pushed the throttle pretty hard one day, and flipped over as the seat post mount broke loose. It scared the crap out of me for a second, but was worth a good laugh later! I ended up glassing a piece of exterior grade plywood onto the deck to attach the seats to.

 

[mikemartyo]

Re: transom and floor replacement

well - this is what i was thinking - <br />i could save the cost of the glass and resin by just glassing in the PT plywood, then i was going to attach the seats with VELCRO - currently the seats are not attached ( it really doesnt cause much trouble except when only a little boy is on the seat) that way it would not be difficult to move when i need to get under the dash!<br /><br />am i crazy?<br />Mike

 

[BillP]

Re: transom and floor replacement

Where is all the info coming from about fasteners getting wasted from pt wood? What material were the fasteners? Where did they break? The newest pt process is the only one that is "corrosive" and they spec SS or hot galvanized for it. However, CCA is still legal for commercial use and available without the worry of corrosion. <br /><br />I live where every pt treated dock sitting on saltwater lasts 20 yrs easy with plain hot dipped galvanized nails before it needs re-nailing (there are 1000s in my area built this way). Almost every exterior deck is planked with pt and lasts decades with full exposure and cold galvanized "deck" nails. The parts that get wasted are the joint between the wood and the exposed heads...only where it isn't in contact with the wood. 1000s of boats use Greenwood pt ply without problems. There are always exceptions but the scare of using pt just doesn't match with the actual life of most pt structures.