Traitor Skates!

12Footer

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Re: Traitor Skates!

truth_detector.Par.0011.ImageFile.gif
 

txswinner

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Re: Traitor Skates!

I can not believe you folks are so divided that you can not see the danger in this Rove matter. The fact it was secreted away by persons in elected positions and was so treachous for those who actually work for the good of our country.<br /><br />You blindness of judgement over parties has resulted in your oversite of the wrongs that were or were not committed in this matter. <br /><br />My question is why was it kept a secret and why did Bush promise to fire the villian, if indeed nothing to it. This was a coverup and one that my President should not tolerate. I want the President to stand up and set this guy straight. Not only does this amount to betrayal to my country, but he has embarassed the President of the United States and failed President Bush by disloyalty and betrayal of trust. I hope GWB kicks his butt.
 

Texashotdog

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Re: Traitor Skates!

Amen, there txs, Rove is a rogue and the President needs to dump on him like he is a public toilet.
 

KaGee

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Re: Traitor Skates!

Originally posted by WillyBWright:<br /> The Whitewater investigation cost US $10 million, spanned 6 years, and resulted in no Clinton charges coming from any of those investigations. All they could muster was a tryst.
Guess you overlooked my earlier post...<br />from CBS NEWS, May, 1998 <br />quote:<br />--------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br />Nevertheless, the investigation resulted in 14 convictions and two acquittals. <br />--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 

JB

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Re: Traitor Skates!

More gossip and baseless accusations from TXS. I wonder why I am not surprised. :confused:
 

Twidget

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Re: Traitor Skates!

Seems somewhere along the line Clinton was disbarred for lying to a grand jury also. Not that he needs his credentials anymore.<br /><br />So, let me get this straight. Bush said he would fire anyone guilty of the charges levelled. The prosecutor said he isnt filing charges, so their should be a firing anyway?? :rolleyes:
 

PW2

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Re: Traitor Skates!

It is hardly "gossip" JB.<br /><br />Rove has admitted he talked to Matthew Cooper of TIME re the identity of Ms. Plame, after first denying it in front of the grand jury.<br /><br />After informed of Cooper's testimony in the GJ---after the courts forced Cooper to testify-- Rove reappeared in front of the Grand Jury and said "he forgot" that he talked to Cooper about it. He had to appear in front of the Grand Jury 5 times to "clarify" his story.<br /><br />The fact that this leak served a distinct political purpose we are to believe is a happy coincidence, I guess.<br /><br />And the fact that we were assured by Scott McClellan that neither Karl Rove nor Libby had anything to do with this leak, or that GW promised that if anyone in his administration had anything to do with this leak would be "dealt with", I guess we are to assume the pres was just kidding.<br /><br />I guess the fact that Rove was not indicted for a felony is cause to celebrate for some, but indictment or no, it is still a shameful display of abuse of power.<br /><br />Perhaps at some point in time the true story will come out, but whenever the "real" facts come out at some point, I am sure only the blindest of partisans will have cause to be proud of their government.
 

WillyBWright

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Re: Traitor Skates!

Didn't miss it, KaGee. There were no Clinton charges relating to any of the Whitewater investigations. Others were charged and some were jailed. But the Clintons weren't. It went from Whitewater to Paula Jones To Kathleen Willey to... They couldn't pin anything on them, so they settled for this Lewinsky thing which had absolutely Nothing to do with Whitewater. I still can't understand how Ken Starr could stomach reopening the investigation after he announced it's close for a stain on a stupid blue dress. He obviously had an agenda and should be ashamed of himself for what he put the country thru, and for What??? HIS reputation? He will be forever remembered and lampooned for the brining about an impeachment based on Tabloid standards. Way to go Kenny! :rolleyes:
 

alden135

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Re: Traitor Skates!

"Pot calling kettle"<br />"Come in kettle, over" <br /> :rolleyes:
 

JB

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Re: Traitor Skates!

You have been listening to too many left leaning spin doctors, PW2. <br /><br />Rove recalled that he had talked to Cooper and Ms Plame's name came up, but he did not know at that time that she was a covert CIA Officer and could not have disclosed what he did not know.<br /><br />If he outed her and/or knowingly lied to the Grand Jury. . .and it could be proven. . .he would be toast.<br /><br />In five testimony sessions with the grand jury nobody had enough evidence or testimony to convince the GJ that he should be prosecuted (the equivalent of probable cause). <br /><br />Conviction is not up to a Grand Jury or a Special Prosecutor. It seems to be up to yellow journalists and people like you.
 

gafteci

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Re: Traitor Skates!

First off, the Whitewater investigation cost $78 million. It encompassed Whitewater, Travelgate, the Vince Foster suicide, and the FBI files.<br /><br />It seems that Kagee will give you a quote from the CBS news article but not a link to it. I suggest you read the article. Most of the convictions had to do with the Madison Guaranty Savings and Loan failure, not Whitewater. Because the investigation cast such a wide net, it caught other illegal activities that had nothing to do with Bill Clinton.<br />Here’s the story that Kagee took one sentence from: CBS News <br /><br />Also, read this on how Ken Starr was appointed to lead the investigation. I got it from here .<br /><br />
In August 1994 Starr [2]was appointed by a three-judge panel to continue the Whitewater investigation, replacing Robert B. Fiske, who had been specially appointed by the Attorney General prior to the re-enactment of the Independent Counsel law. His powers were very broad, and he was given the right to subpoena nearly anyone he felt may have information relevant to Whitewater. He would later abandon his brief by investigating Clinton's alleged sexual misconduct with Monica Lewinsky and other women.<br />The story behind Starr's naming is interesting. The three-judge panel which named Starr was led by Judge David Sentelle, an appointee of Chief Justice William Rehnquist and a protege of right-wing Senator Jesse Helms. Rehnquist, throughout the years when the Independent Counsel Act was inactive, ensured that two of the three judges on the panel, known as the Special Division, were reliably partisan Republicans. In late July 1994, Helms, fellow Republican senator Lauch Faircloth, and Sentelle met for lunch. All three initially denied that the conversation included the topic of the upcoming special prosecutor, though later Sentelle admitted that it "may" have come up in conversation, and also admitted that he was looking for a Republican "who had been active on the other side of the political fence" to head the new investigation. For years, the three insisted that the primary topic of conversation at lunch had been the respective conditions of their prostates. On August 5, Starr was named independent counsel. The New York Times, among other news outlets, came out strongly against Starr, in part because of the inappropriateness of Sentelle's apparent discussion of the position with two partisan Republicans bent on the discommodation of the president, and in part because of Starr's extensive conflicts of interest. But there is little that can be done about Starr's appointment; as Justice Antonin Scalia acidly observed in 1991, when the Bush administration was being investigated over the Iran-contra affair, "What if [the Special Division is] politically partisan, as judges have been known to be, and select a prosecutor antagonistic to the administration...? There is no remedy for that, not even a political one."<br />Starr's predecessor, Fiske, had been removed primarily because of his alleged conflicts of interest, though Fiske was a moderate Republican whose reputation as an impartial judge was strong throughout much of the legal community. In contrast, Starr had a number of apparent conflicts of interest that cloud his appointment. His law firm, Kirkland & Ellis, of which Starr is a partner, represented numerous clients, most notably tobacco companies and auto industry clients, that are engaged in defending themselves against government prosecution; Starr continued to assist in these clients' defense while investigating the president. The firm itself was being sued by the Resolution Trust Company, one of the government agencies that Starr would investigate as independent counsel. Starr himself was heavily, if quietly, involved in assisting the lawyers bringing suit against Clinton on behalf of Paula Jones, and himself helped author an amicus brief presented to the court in support of Jones.<br />
Now tell me there wasn't a vast rightwing conspiracy. :p
 

PW2

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Re: Traitor Skates!

JB,<br /><br />You are correct on one point, at least, JB.<br /><br />In order to be convicted of the original "leaking" charge, you not only have to leak her name, you also have to know that she was a covert agent, and you had to know that disclosing her name was illegal.<br /><br />An extremely difficult burden for any prosecutor, as you have "prove" what was in someone's mind at the time.<br /><br />If you believe that Rove "forgot", that is a much bigger leap, IMO. Why else would Rove even be discussing Plame's with anyone, let alone a TIME reporter, if not to attempt to discredit a critic of the WH, Joe Wilson, and documents have shown that discrediting Wilson was job 1 at the White House at the time.<br /><br />To think a Machiavellian character like Rove would "forget" something like this is a stretch, in my book. To prove he didn't "forget" in front of a jury might have been too high a burden for Fitzgerald, but it's hardly much of a leap for most reasonable people.<br /><br />And while the "leaking" may not have been criminal, the pres did say that anyone involved in the leaking would be "dealt with" ---not just those convicted of a crime related to the leak.<br /><br />Rove was admittedly "involved" in it--whether it was criminal involvement or not. I am just waiting to see exactly how he is to be "dealt with."<br /><br />I am sure that this only shows that if you control all branches of government, you can virtually get away with anything, I guess.<br /><br />I hope the Wilsons file a civil suit.
 

Texashotdog

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Re: Traitor Skates!

Come on now guys, we all know what happened so let's not act like we are stupid.<br /><br />What I hate is how it effects the President. GWB showed his character at his own expense in protecting a person he trusted and held in respect. this is great character, but Rove should be kicked in butt by the rest of the President's supporters for letting down the President and then lying to him about what he had done.<br /><br />There is a lot of good to be said for a man that is willing to step out on a limb based on trust as GWB did on Rove. Rove does not deserve the support of the President now.
 

JB

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Re: Traitor Skates!

Correction, hotdog. We all have opinions about what happened. We don't KNOW anything.<br /><br />What is stupid is treating opinions as fact.
 

KaGee

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Re: Traitor Skates!

Unfortunetly JB our world is filled with those whose perception IS reality. :(
 

rottenray6402

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Re: Traitor Skates!

I'm still trying to understand WillyBWright's posst.... Ken Starr embarressed the country over a stain on a blue dress? I thought Slick Willie put the stain there not Ken Starr? :confused: Because Ken Starr did his job he is somehow at fault? I am getting a headache, got any extra eggs RF?
 

WillyBWright

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Re: Traitor Skates!

I was speaking of smoking guns. Whitewater was dead and in the grave with the dirt being shovelled in when Linda Tripp fed Starr tapes which ended up exposing evidence (the blue dress). Without that he had Nothing. Without the Nixon tapes, they also had nothing. There's a smoking gun waiting to be found. It's just a matter of time. And it's going to lead to Cheney. Junior was obviously left out of the loop and decided to bail his buddies out by claiming presidential declassification when somebody realized that making that claim would get most everybody off. He covered their corrupt neo-con a$$es pure and simple.
 

12Footer

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Re: Traitor Skates!

Originally posted by Texashotdog:<br /> Amen, there txs, Rove is a rogue and the President needs to dump on him like he is a public toilet.
This is getting better by the post. :D <br />I'm enjoying this thread EMENSLY. Thanks, Willy.
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Texashotdog

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Re: Traitor Skates!

You can keep your head in the sand if you want JB, but for me it is pretty clear based on the secrecy. If nothing wrong was done why did he not step forward when this was first news, why did Rove let the President go out on a limb with the whole whoever leaks is canned. Why would he permit the embarassment of my President when all he had to do was come forward at the being.<br /><br />Sorry JB, I am not buying for a minute that he did not let the President down and now is abusing the loyalty of GWB.<br /><br />Please explain why you insist on letting this travesty continue and detract from the work being done.
 
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