Towing a 2000 lb boat w. a 2004 Ford Taurus

[reelfishin]

Re: Towing a 2000 lb boat w. a 2004 Ford Taurus

The ticket would be more like 'Loaded to spill' or creating a traffic hazard. Unless the trailer was visibly overloading the vehicle, or hindering its ability to do a safe highway speed, chances are there's not much they would do.

I would be more concerned about damage to the car and it's transmission.
Part of the problem is that the Taurus is a front wheel drive car, there is no direct connection between the trans and the hitch as on a full frame vehicle.
The body will have to take up any stress caused by the added weight. There will be traction issues on some ramps, front wheel drive cars simply to not make good tow vehicles. The most I'd tow would be a very small aluminum boat or utility trailer and at that I doubt I'd take it long distances.

Find yourself a cheap used truck to do the job, any truck, even a small one will be better than a fwd car. My second choice would be any full size rear wheel drive car with a full frame.

I used to use a late 80's LTD wagon for towing, it was one of the best cars I've had for towing. It towed better than my F150 did and got better mileage.

 

[Mark42]

Re: Towing a 2000 lb boat w. a 2004 Ford Taurus

If you do end up buying a rear wheel drive car, or even a truck that is not a 4x4, be sure to add a limited slip (aka posi) rear differential. It will make all the difference in the world.

I added a posi to my Lincoln. One time a police officer in a Crown Vic stopped to watch me pull out. The rear wheels of the Lincoln were in about 6" of water and the ramp was all wet and slippery. He came over to warn me that I will have problems pulling out because of the experience he has had driving Crown Vics with open rear. I told him I had the posi, and to watch. I eased on the gas and pulled the boat right out with no tire slippage at all. The 255 50 17 tires probably help too.

I politely suggested that he should look into having the township garage install posi in all the police vehicles. Would put an end to smoking the right rear tire when chasing the bad guys.

Having a posi will greatly reduce tire spin when towing on gravel roads, sand covered roads and ramps, regular driving in snow and rain, moving the boat around your yard (won't tear up the grass), pretty much any situation where the vehicle is not on pavement.

 

[Hitech]

Re: Towing a 2000 lb boat w. a 2004 Ford Taurus

There are both state and federal laws dealing with weight limits. Why do you think there are weigh stations for trucks all over the country.

Those laws ONLY pertain to commerical vehicles. Why do you think boats don't need to stop at them?

 

[109jb]

Re: Towing a 2000 lb boat w. a 2004 Ford Taurus

If there is not law against it there isn't anything to write a ticket for. One can attempt to argue that exceeding the man. weight rating caused the accident, but you're going to have to prove that in court. Contrary to what many seem to think, it is anything but automatic that you will loose. Actually, it is likely that you will not loose based solely on being "overweight", unless grossly so.

All states have statutes regarding reckless driving. Illinois defines reckless driving as:

(a) A person commits reckless driving if he or she:
(1) drives any vehicle with a willful or wanton
disregard for the safety of persons or property;

So what you are saying is that willfully operating above the manufacturers tow rating is not unsafe. If operating above the maximum tow rating is unsafe it fits the definition above to a tee. If you got a ticket, accident or not, then what would your argument be? I don't think the courts would consider your expert opinion above that of the vehicle manufacturers tow rating. Whether or not operating above the tow rating caused an accident is irrelevant because the willful disregard for safety is present whether an accident happens or not.

 

[Hitech]

Re: Towing a 2000 lb boat w. a 2004 Ford Taurus

All states have statutes regarding reckless driving. Illinois defines reckless driving as:

(a) A person commits reckless driving if he or she:
(1) drives any vehicle with a willful or wanton
disregard for the safety of persons or property;

So what you are saying is that willfully operating above the manufacturers tow rating is not unsafe.

First, yes, I think that operating above the manufacturers tow rating is not necessarily unsafe. There are MANY factors that go into determining that rating, not all of them are safety related.

The key wording in reckless driving is willful. Towing over the manufacturers rating (note the word rating, it's not an absolute) is not willful disregard for safety. I do not magically become unsafe when I'm 20 lbs overweight.

The bottom line is that you are NOT going to get a ticket for simply being over the manufacturers rating. If you are so far over (or the vehicle is in such bad shape that it can't even handle the rated weight) that it obviously can't handle the weight, THEN you might get a ticket. Otherwise, it ain't gonna happen.

 

[AZMinyard]

Re: Towing a 2000 lb boat w. a 2004 Ford Taurus

Hitech, dude, chill.

Take the earlier advice and check with your local PD. Report back to us with the answer. Accompany it with the smug smile if you are right and the bashful one if you aren't, but stop arguing - please.

ARS (Arizona revised statues) states:

A. A police or peace officer having reason to believe that the weight of a vehicle and load does not conform to this article may require the driver to:
1. Stop and submit to a weighing of the vehicle and load by means of either portable or stationary scales.
2. Drive the vehicle to the nearest public scales, if the scales are within two miles.
B. If on weighing a vehicle and load pursuant to subsection A of this section an officer determines that the weight does not conform to this article, the officer may require the driver to stop the vehicle in a suitable place and remain standing until the portion of the load is removed as necessary to reduce the gross weight of the vehicle to the limit permitted under this article. The owner or operator shall care for the material unloaded at the risk of the owner or operator.
C. A driver of a vehicle is guilty of a class 3 misdemeanor who either:
1. Knowingly fails or refuses to stop and submit the vehicle and load to a weighing.
2. Knowingly fails or refuses when directed by an officer on a weighing of the vehicle to stop the vehicle and otherwise comply with subsections A and B of this section.

So here they can pull you over all based upon suspicion of violating a specific formula. If you are found in violation of the formula, you get a ticket and fined:

If a person is found in violation of this section and the violation:
1. Does not cause any damage or injury and is the person's:
(a) First violation in a sixty month period, the person is subject to a civil penalty of not more than two hundred fifty dollars.
(b) Second or subsequent violation in a sixty month period, the person is subject to a civil penalty of not more than three hundred fifty dollars.
2. Results in an accident causing serious physical injury as defined in section 13-105 to another person, the person is subject to a civil penalty of not more than five hundred dollars.
3. Results in an accident causing the death of another person, the person is subject to a civil penalty of not more than one thousand dollars.

How about CA, what does your revised statues state?

 

[Hitech]

Re: Towing a 2000 lb boat w. a 2004 Ford Taurus

In CA all of the statutes I know of are for commercial vehicles only.

I don't know them all, but no one has ever shown me one that isn't, and several have tried.

The AZ one also looks like it applies to commercial vehicles (it's similar to CAs). Do you have a link so we can see if that is the case?

BTW, you can't walk into the local PD and speak to anyone but the receptionist. Taking to an actual is hard enough when you have and actual reason.

No need to chill, I'm just debating.

 

[AZMinyard]

Re: Towing a 2000 lb boat w. a 2004 Ford Taurus

ARS clearly states both commercial and noncommercial vehicles.

http://www.azleg.state.az.us/ArizonaRevisedStatutes.asp

Interesting bit from the CA code:

29003. (a) Every hitch or coupling device used as a means of
attaching the towed and towing vehicles shall be properly and
securely mounted and be structurally adequate for the weight drawn.
The mounting of the hitch or coupling device on the towing and towed
vehicle shall include sufficient reinforcement or bracing of the
frame to provide sufficient strength and rigidity to prevent undue
distortion of the frame.

So if the TV isn't designed to handle the weight . . .

This section of the code deals with noncommercial vehicles.

 

[cdnfthree2]

Re: Towing a 2000 lb boat w. a 2004 Ford Taurus

Interesting, but the bottom line is that that car won't cut it for very long! You don't have the springs, or the torque. Apart from all the safety issues, your radiator and battery probably aren't cut out for it either. My F150 with tow package is rated for 6800lbs and I know for a fact it doesn't mean I should do it. More like 3500lbs comfortably.

 

[Hitech]

Re: Towing a 2000 lb boat w. a 2004 Ford Taurus

Interesting bit from the CA code:
So if the TV isn't designed to handle the weight . . .

This section of the code deals with noncommercial vehicles.

Not exactly, but yes, if the trailer hitch or frame bend because of the weight you can be sited. That goes along with grossly and obviously overweight.

I've never seen (in CA) a law take makes it illegal to exceed the manufactures weight rating for the tow vehicle.

And you could have gotten that link a little closer, I don;t have all day you know.

Okay, I can't find it. Do you know which statute makes it illegal to be over the manufactures weight rating? I've seen the fines ($1 is less that 1000 lbs over) but can't find what weight you need to be under.

 

[cribber]

Re: Towing a 2000 lb boat w. a 2004 Ford Taurus

Irregardless of how much weight you tow, Taurus trannies are not the most reliable ones around so be careful. I know from experience since an elderly relative is on her 3rd transmission rebuild for the 2004 V6 version. I keep telling her to replace it if she wants to keep the car, but she says it costs too much.

I forgot to add this is a very high mileage car with just over 150k miles last time I seen the odometer a few months ago. She does drive the wheels off of everything she's owned.

 

[reelfishin]

Re: Towing a 2000 lb boat w. a 2004 Ford Taurus

I politely suggested that he should look into having the township garage install posi in all the police vehicles. Would put an end to smoking the right rear tire when chasing the bad guys.

Having a posi will greatly reduce tire spin when towing on gravel roads, sand covered roads and ramps, regular driving in snow and rain, moving the boat around your yard (won't tear up the grass), pretty much any situation where the vehicle is not on pavement.

I worked for many years at Ford dealerships dealing mostly with Police and emergency vehicles. Most do not have posi type rears for two reasons, first is the obvious added cost of purchase, second, most Police cars are built without posi rears for handling purposes, especially in icy conditions. Getting stuck or wheel spin is a minor inconvenience and most police forces have special vehicles to handle off road situations. Most departments frown upon cars going off road.
In icy conditions, a posi rear can create an adverse push/steer situation when traction doesn't allow the rear clutches to break free and slip. Other than some very old Mopar cruisers, I can't recall every seeing a police package Crown Vic come through with a limited slip rear, most don't even have good gearing for acceleration. Most departments opt for taller gears in favor of better mileage and better high speed cruising.

My 1989 CV had an open 3.30 gear, my 1990 had a 3.55 open gear and my 2003 and 2005 both have open 3.55 gears. None have ever had any traction issues. I have not yet used the later models to launch a boat but both came to me with factory trailer hitches and wiring. All were better tow vehicles than was my 2001 F150 which only got 13.7 m MPG on a good day with the same basic powertrain and gear ratio.

What year is your Town Car? My older CV took 225/70-15 tires, my newer ones both take 225/60-16 tires, no choice was offered in the LS and GS lineup those years. I also have a 2003 Grand Marquis with factory tow which has an open gear, 3.55 rear, 239HP motor option and 225/60-16 tires.
The two '03s are mine, the '05 is a company car. I was going to buy the TC in '03 but liked the look of the Ford better. I've run full size Fords all my life, their a hard car to top, especially when you look at the mileage they get now that fuel is so high. I still have my dad's 1987 Grand Marquis here too, even that gets over 20 mpg on all but very short trips.

 

[Mark42]

Re: Towing a 2000 lb boat w. a 2004 Ford Taurus

.....My 1989 CV had an open 3.30 gear, my 1990 had a 3.55 open gear and my 2003 and 2005 both have open 3.55 gears. None have ever had any traction issues. I have not yet used the later models to launch a boat but both came to me with factory trailer hitches and wiring. All were better tow vehicles than was my 2001 F150 which only got 13.7 m MPG on a good day with the same basic powertrain and gear ratio.

What year is your Town Car? My older CV took 225/70-15 tires, my newer ones both take 225/60-16 tires, no choice was offered in the LS and GS lineup those years. I also have a 2003 Grand Marquis with factory tow which has an open gear, 3.55 rear, 239HP motor option and 225/60-16 tires.
The two '03s are mine, the '05 is a company car. I was going to buy the TC in '03 but liked the look of the Ford better. I've run full size Fords all my life, their a hard car to top, especially when you look at the mileage they get now that fuel is so high. I still have my dad's 1987 Grand Marquis here too, even that gets over 20 mpg on all but very short trips.

Mine is a 1998 Lincoln Town Car Touring Sedan. The Touring Sedan option added heavier coil springs up front, and thicker front and rear sway bars, 3:55 rear, gas filled shocks, urathane bushings, and dual exhaust. I added the trac lock, an overide switch for the electronic traction control that defaults to OFF, I swapped out the factory exhaust for a custom cat back system with larger pipes and performance mufflers. I added the Konig 17" rims and 255 50 tires. It rides a lot firmer than a regular Signature series. I have 150,000 miles on it now, and it still looks great. I drove this for two winters without the posi, and I can tell you that in the ice and snow, I would much rather have the posi, than not. Its the difference between going and not going.

 

[reelfishin]

Re: Towing a 2000 lb boat w. a 2004 Ford Taurus

Mine is a 1998 Lincoln Town Car Touring Sedan. The Touring Sedan option added heavier coil springs up front, and thicker front and rear sway bars, 3:55 rear, gas filled shocks, urethane bushings, and dual exhaust. I added the trac lock, an override switch for the electronic traction control that defaults to OFF, I swapped out the factory exhaust for a custom cat back system with larger pipes and performance mufflers. I added the Konig 17" rims and 255 50 tires. It rides a lot firmer than a regular Signature series. I have 150,000 miles on it now, and it still looks great. I drove this for two winters without the posi, and I can tell you that in the ice and snow, I would much rather have the posi, than not. Its the difference between going and not going.

My CV and Grand Marquis are bone stock. The only thing I added was a dash mat to keep the sun off the dash. The CV is an LS and has the full handling package. The GrMQ has steel wheels and hubcaps. I got both 'nearly' new with only a few miles on them. Both were bought really right and I had no choices of options. The Merc is the better tow vehicle for some reason, the rear suspension is a bit stiffer and it rides a lot nicer since it don't have the handling package added. The CV has some sort of fancy shocks, not sure who made them, it was an option that year with the handling package. The Merc just has Motorcraft gas shocks.
My only complaint about either of these cars is the ride, they ride nearly as rough as my 4x2 Ranger. Neither one gives a real luxury car ride. I miss the ride my 1982 and 1989 Town Cars gave me. I sold the '86 when it hit 186,000 miles in 1992. I kept the '82 till 1990 but it never got the use the later ones did. The 1989 had the very annoying rear air suspension option, as did my 1995, both got converted to coil springs.

The best two cars I've owned for towing have been a 1972 LTD wagon, and a 1986 Mercury Colony Park with factory trailer tow, that was the only one that came with a posi rear. Both were fully loaded cars but both got badly abused. I got the 1972 with my first boat, it was already 11 years old, had a 429 engine and pulled like a tractor, it was well beat and well rusted when I got it but as a tow vehicle it was great. It never got unhooked from the boat and usually got parked with the rear windows open to let out the smell of bait. I had cut huge holes in the floor too for drainage. The 1986 was also a cheap used car bought to tow a bass boat. That one just plain got abused but it took all we dished out back then. It finally rusted so bad I deemed it unsafe. It got dunked a few times in saltwater pulling out the boat in a storm, in it's last days I had to move it's taillights to the roof since the body had rusted to bad to hold the stock lights. The tailgate was welded shut and the bumper was wood. It never had many miles but it saw saltwater almost daily all summer long. I parted it out and junked what was left after it was about 12 years old. I replaced it with my 1989 wagon which by that time had nearly 100k on it but no rust. That one was an old company car I had bought since I was it's only driver and it had only 33k on it when they retired it. That one was an oddity with an HO engine, factory dual exhaust, and no other options, even rubber floor mats. It was ordered by a security company and bought sold to the company after the original order customer refused it for some reason. I drove that one till I bought the 1995 TC then I relegated it to tow vehicle. I kept it till I bought the 03 CV.

Your TC looks great, I'd like to find a set of OEM wheels for my GrMq but they have to come from a 2003/04 model. My 2003 Merc has only 4600 miles on it, the CV has about 55k. The benefit of having multiple cars is that the mileage stays pretty low. I usually sell them when they hit about 100k, but I've made an exception on a few. I rarely buy new these days, I hate to take that initial loss. I also never wait to buy a car or truck when I have too. I only buy when a deal comes about.

Lately I've only used the cars to move trailers around or to bring home an unexpected find or two. I try to use only my trucks for launching boats. Mostly just to keep the cars cleaner.

 

[jaekfre]

Re: Towing a 2000 lb boat w. a 2004 Ford Taurus

Buy an old Volvo 240! Mine will pull a max of 3300 lbs with trailer brakes(volvo specs). Awesome cars that just won't give up!

 

[samo_ott]

Re: Towing a 2000 lb boat w. a 2004 Ford Taurus

Doesn't the 240 have a 4 cylinder 2.4L engine? Or is it bigger? That seems hard to believe if it's a 4 banger!

 

[Titanium48]

Re: Towing a 2000 lb boat w. a 2004 Ford Taurus

Yes, the Volvo 240 did have 114 hp, 2.3 L engine. European manufacturers don't lowball tow ratings just because a vehicle isn't marketed for its towing capacity. European tow ratings are based on the ability of the combination to start moving up a 12% grade. Doesn't matter if the trailer outweighs the car or you can't get it out of second gear until the road flattens out.

Of course, just because it can be done doesn't mean it should be done. That's where the 85% rule come in. European drivers are generally advised not to tow more than 85% of the curb weight of their vehicles to give some margin of safety. Less weight will also allow starting on >12% grades, like many steeper boat launch ramps. For the Volvo 240, 85% of curb weight is 2500 lb.

 

[JChors]

Re: Towing a 2000 lb boat w. a 2004 Ford Taurus

I know it's a little late to be responding to this old thread, but I can help to clarify Hitech's questions re. weight limits/rules for non-commercial vehicles while towing in California.

I've never seen (in CA) a law take makes it illegal to exceed the manufactures weight rating for the tow vehicle. Do you know which statute makes it illegal to be over the manufactures weight rating?

As authorized by the California Vehicle Code, a Peace Officer may, at his/her discretion, stop a vehicle that is deemed to be overloaded or operated in an unsafe condition. Here are some of the applicable laws (source: California Vehicle Code 2009, Divisions 11 and 12).

Basic Speed Law
22350. "No person shall drive a vehicle upon a highway at a speed greater than is reasonable or prudent having due regard for weather, visibility, the traffic on, and the surface and width of, the highway, and in no event at a speed which endangers the safety of persons or property." The premise here being that driving at any speed while operating an overloaded (read: unsafe) vehicle upon a highway is considered a dangerous speed, thereby authorizing the Officer to initiate an enforcement stop on said vehicle he/she suspects is overloaded. This is referred to as a 'catch-all' section, and is intended to address any situation not specifically mentioned in other laws.

Vehicle Not Equipped or Unsafe
24002. (a) "It is unlawful to operate any vehicle or combination of vehicles which is in an unsafe condition, or which is not safely loaded, and which presents an immediate safety hazard." Self-explanatory.

Hitch, Coupling Device or Connection, or Tow Dolly
29003. (a) "Every hitch or coupling device used as a means of attaching the towed and towing vehicles shall be properly and securely mounted and be structurally adequate for the weight drawn. The mounting of the hitch or coupling device on the towing and towed vehicle shall include sufficient reinforcement or bracing of the frame to provide sufficient strength and rigidity to prevent undue distortion of the frame." Upon further inspection by the Officer, the prima facia evidence may support this violation.

Towed Vehicle
29004. (b) "All safety connections and attachments shall be of sufficient strength to control the towed vehicle in the event of failure of the regular hitch, coupling device, drawbar, tongue, or other connection. All safety connections and attachments also shall have a positive means of ensuring that the safety connection or attachment does not become dislodged while in transit." Another section that may be supported by the prima facia evidence.

Chances are most law enforcement officials are not going to notice a a couple of hundred pounds of extra weight, or make a fuss about it if your driving in a safe manner, but if excess weight causes the towed vehicle to whip or swerve, he/she could stop you using this section:

Towed Vehicles Swerving
21711. "No person shall operate a train of vehicles when any vehicle being towed whips or swerves from side to side or fails to follow substantially in the path of the towing vehicle."

I have seen a car towing a boat, which in turn was towing a jet-ski, which is a violation of this law [notice subsection (b) also]:

Passenger Vehicle Combinations: Number and Weight Limits
21715. (a) "No passenger vehicle regardless of weight, or any other motor vehicle under 4,000 pounds unladen, shall draw or tow more than one vehicle in combination, except that an auxiliary dolly or tow dolly may be used with the towed vehicle."

(b) "No motor vehicle under 4,000 pounds unladen shall tow any vehicle weighing 6,000 pounds or more gross."

So, as you can see, California (and I'm sure most other states) has lots of rules regarding weight limits while towing. There's two more non-weight laws that you might not be aware of:

Maximum Speed for Designated Vehicles
22406. "No person may drive any of the following vehicles on a highway
at a speed in excess of 55 miles per hour:

(a) A motortruck or truck tractor having three or more axles or any motortruck or truck tractor drawing any other vehicle.

(b) A passenger vehicle or bus drawing any other vehicle.

(c) A schoolbus transporting any school pupil.

(d) A farm labor vehicle when transporting passengers.

(e) A vehicle transporting explosives.

(f) A trailer bus, as defined in Section 636."

Notice section (b) includes passenger vehicles towing any other vehicle (Section 670. A "vehicle" is a device by which any person or property may be propelled, moved, or drawn upon a highway) In a nutshell, 55mph is max on any California road while towing, including freeways.


Designated Lanes for Certain Vehicles
21655 (b) "Any trailer bus, except as provided in Section 21655.5, and any vehicle subject to the provisions of Section 22406 shall be driven in the lane or lanes designated pursuant to subdivision (a) whenever signs have been erected giving notice of that designation. Except as otherwise provided in this subdivision, when a specific lane or lanes have not been so designated, any of those vehicles shall be driven in the right-hand lane for traffic or as close as practicable to the right edge or curb. If, however, a specific lane or lanes have not been designated on a divided highway having four or more clearly marked lanes for traffic in one direction, any of those vehicles may also be driven in the lane to the immediate left of that right-hand lane, unless otherwise prohibited under this code. When overtaking and passing another vehicle proceeding in the same direction, the driver shall use either the designated lane, the lane to the immediate left of the right-hand lane, or the right-hand lane for traffic as permitted under this code."

This section basically says that any vehicle that meets the criteria of section 22406 above is also required to use only the right hand lane except when passing, and then, only pass in the next lane over. So don't get caught towing your boat in the left lane(s) of a four or more lane highway/freeway in California unless a sign permits you to do so, or you are preparing to exit/merge on that side.

Phew! California! I'm burned out.

 

[Hitech]

Re: Towing a 2000 lb boat w. a 2004 Ford Taurus

Like I said, I'm not aware of a law in CA that makes it illegal to exceed the manufactures weight ratings...

 

[JChors]

Re: Towing a 2000 lb boat w. a 2004 Ford Taurus

Technically, you're right. An Officer would not use the manufacturer's claimed weight capacity as the sole determiner of a safely loaded vehicle. The age and condition of the trailer, connection and tongue weight would be considered. The age, condition, GVW, ride height and suspension action of the towing vehicle while in motion would be factored in, too.