"Think we're gonna need a bigger boat"

[IslandExplorer]

So, in the search for a larger aluminum boat, and the scarcity thereof, a particular fiberglass boat caught my eye and then the GF saw it and now loves it so looking for information on this particular boat and since I know little of fiberglass boats- looking for the most similar options. The particular boat is a classic old Sea Ray 245 Sundancer. Aside from the requirements of an enclosed head, stove, and sink- the really nice little mid cabin area is what we both really like bc it makes for a whole second 2 person bed on a relatively small boat. Any opinions on these? Also- are there any other boats in the 24' range that have this second cabin? Need to stay around this size max for towing reasons. Also trying to stay with old classic boats for aesthetics And price! Please share opinions/input/experience.

 

[shrew]

Most Expresses have a Vberth and a mid-cabin. We had a 28ft Maxum with a huge mid-berth that we used as the master berth. Some 24's have a small, almost single mid-berths.
My parents first boat was a Bayliner 24 for a family of four. My wife often says "I have no idea how your mother did it". We lived on the boat from Friday night until Sunday night, plus 2 weeks a summer.

Express Cruiser Brands
Maxum
Searay
Bayliner
Cruisers inc.
Chapparal
Doral
Regal
Four Winns
Rinker
Renken
etc.

 

[SavinRaven]

do you/what is your budget?

 

[Scott Danforth]

will add carver. they had an entire line of twin cabin boats.

however keep in mind when looking at older express cruisers, especially from the 80's and 90's they often need a lot of work.

 

[Grub54891]

If it has an aft cabin, one of that size I don't like so much. We have a couple at the marina, hard to enter the boat and docking is a little tough single handed. When out on open water it's fine but not for me.

 

[IslandExplorer]

do you/what is your budget?

My budget is pretty low compared to what a lot of people have to spend. Trying to find something in the 5k range.

I'm ok with faded and esp dated- I'm actually a big fan of retro looking boats like my current 1970 Starchief. The early 80's Sea Ray 245 I spotted had loads of teak trim, panels, and deck pieces which I really like compared to newer versions (having much less). Hoping to find something with that cool mid cabin for overnights with guests while still staying as small and light as I can for fuel economy and tow ability. I'm no stranger to electrical work and tuning up engines so hopefully those skills will help me save some money on purchase.

Aside from the sleeping accomodations I'm mainly concerned about overall weight, fuel, and structural integrity of the fiberglass hull. Tow vehicle rated around 6,000lbs so that definitely limits things.

 

[SavinRaven]

Oh I was about to say there is a beautiful 23' Mariah Shabah on boat trader I've been eye balling to but its 30k

Mariah boats for sale - Boat Trader

Find Mariah boats for sale near you, including boat prices, photos, and more. Locate Mariah boat dealers and find your boat at Boat Trader!

www.boattrader.com

Should meet most of your requirements and then some. Just take out a loan. lol boat weight is about 4500 lbs if memory serves me correctly. I'm a big fan of Mariahs though... You may not find the same sentiment in this group.

 

[Scott Danforth]

My budget is pretty low compared to what a lot of people have to spend. Trying to find something in the 5k range.

a fiberglass boat in the $5k range will need about $5k to $10k in restoration to make usable. especially boats from the 80's and 90's when wood and balsa was used all over.

for example, the boat in my signature was in great shape and required $1500 worth of transom and stringer replacement when I bought it (2011 prices). and then I started a complete restoration which lasted 5 years.

even much newer boats like @tpenfield 's required fiberglass work

 

[IslandExplorer]

If it has an aft cabin, one of that size I don't like so much. We have a couple at the marina, hard to enter the boat and docking is a little tough single handed. When out on open water it's fine but not for me.

I don't dock much, mainly just trailer launch, cruise around, and anchor various places, spend nights, go back and pull out of water when done. Trying to have ability for guests to stay on board over night so even if their sleeping area is small that's fine but needs to be in cabin/sheltered at least.

 

[IslandExplorer]

Oh I was about to say there is a beautiful 23' Mariah Shabah on boat trader I've been eye balling to but its 30k

Mariah boats for sale - Boat Trader

Find Mariah boats for sale near you, including boat prices, photos, and more. Locate Mariah boat dealers and find your boat at Boat Trader!

www.boattrader.com

Should meet most of your requirements and then some. Just take out a loan. lol boat weight is about 4500 lbs if memory serves me correctly. I'm a big fan of Mariahs though... You may not find the same sentiment in this group.

That's a nice boat but definitely out of my range, even with a loan! lol Looking for more of a usable fixer upper to have fun with. Hoping to run across a nice older boat someone took decent care of.

 

[tpenfield]

a fiberglass boat in the $5k range will need about $5k to $10k in restoration to make usable. especially boats from the 80's and 90's when wood and balsa was used all over.

for example, the boat in my signature was in great shape and required $1500 worth of transom and stringer replacement when I bought it (2011 prices). and then I started a complete restoration which lasted 5 years.

even much newer boats like @tpenfield 's required fiberglass work

Which boat are we talking about ? My 1991 and 1996 Formula boats both needed some fiberglass work. They were 13 and 16 years old when I bought them. My current (newer) boat does not need any glassing work (thankfully)

 

[IslandExplorer]

a fiberglass boat in the $5k range will need about $5k to $10k in restoration to make usable. especially boats from the 80's and 90's when wood and balsa was used all over.

for example, the boat in my signature was in great shape and required $1500 worth of transom and stringer replacement when I bought it (2011 prices). and then I started a complete restoration which lasted 5 years.

even much newer boats like @tpenfield 's required fiberglass work

Well, I suppose it depends on what one's judgement of useable equates to. Just to clarify a bit- I am definitely not trying to do a full restoration on anything. To me useable is safe enough to take out around the bay. Sure she might burn a little oil, have some rips in upholstery, some gauges that need replacing, carb that needs a bench rebuild, etc, etc. Things I can live with or fix myself. Trying to find something with good bones and improve it from there. But like you said, the older boats have high probability of rotten wood hiding various places and that's definitely a big concern. That's what originally steered me away from glass bc an aluminum boat is much easier to inspect, at least for me.

 

[IslandExplorer]

How are the 80's Sea Ray Sundancers as far as stringers and below water line wood are concerned? Are they balsa cored below water line? Are stringers usually shot? Seems like selecting boats that were trailer queens would be a good choice for the older ones vs the ones that sat at docks for a season at a time. One of the boats I was looking at in the 5k range seemed to be like that- 80s model that was still in use, looked like it was pretty well taken care of, and allegedly lived on a trailer most of the time. Don't know how I'd try to verify hull integrity without paying a bunch of money for a marine surveyor who'd probably condemn an older boat no matter what.

 

[mr 88]

Does this boat have the infamous 3.7 Mercruiser 4 banger ? I think the 5-10 budget for a rebuild is a stupid statement. Not every old boat requires a rebuild . Check for any soft spots on the decks , if anything is screwed into the transom ask the owner if you can unscrew a couple of the lowest ones . See if any water comes out and if you have a small pick dig it in and pull out some shavings to see if they are dry.

 

[tpenfield]

this thread is from a guy who bought a 1998 Sea Ray 270 and had to repair rot in the back end. Pretty much wood and not much coring (if any)

https://forums.iboats.com/threads/bought-a-1998-sea-ray-sundancer-270-wide-beam-with-rot.685998/

The boat you are considering is about 12 years older than this boat . . . expect plywood, probably no balsa.

 

[Scott Danforth]

The deck is balsa, the stringers are wood and balsa.

Does this boat have the infamous 3.7 Mercruiser 4 banger ? I think the 5-10 budget for a rebuild is a stupid statement. Not every old boat requires a rebuild . Check for any soft spots on the decks , if anything is screwed into the transom ask the owner if you can unscrew a couple of the lowest ones . See if any water comes out and if you have a small pick dig it in and pull out some shavings to see if they are dry.

Decks generally dont have issues on express cruisers, mainly because there is air and stowage below the deck. However searays from the 80s and 90s do have transom and stringer issues. Just like most of the boats from that era.

Trailer queens and barn finds are not immune to rot, especially 80s and 90s boats

Add up the materials to replace stringers, transom, flotation foam, etc. Not even talking interior, motor or drive. That is $3500 or more in todays money

Most likely once you pull the drive and motor to repair the transom, you will find a hand full of issues to address. That easily eats up $1000 easy just on things like gimbal, bellows, bolt kits, flappers, hoses, etc

Helm, deck furniture and cabin furniture will cost over $2k even sewing the skins yourself.

Replumbing the black and grey water tanks, fixing blowers, pumps, etc will eat up another grand plus

 

[SavinRaven]

I think my "restoration" using mid level materials and a much smaller craft then the ones described above now would have cost at least 2,000 in todays dollars and I just did it within the last year for about 1,000. Not including the engine components. When I add all that up I am probably at about 3500. As stated this was on a 17' boat... I think 5-10k can be pretty close to accurate if your doing things correctly and addressing issues as you see them. If not you can snuff it all up under the deck. But eventually it will bite you in the a**

 

[mr 88]

Not every old boat needs a complete or even partial rebuild , period.

 

[SavinRaven]

Not every old boat needs a complete or even partial rebuild , period.

Without a survey though (which on a budget boat it goes without saying a survey will not take place, maybe not even a sea trial) its safe to assume some sort of budget in any 30+ year old model boat purchase though. If you didnt assume some sort of rehab budget in that style of purchase you wouldnt be assessing it properly from the beginning. there are some hidden barn finds out there but they are few and far between.

 

[IslandExplorer]

Does this boat have the infamous 3.7 Mercruiser 4 banger ? I think the 5-10 budget for a rebuild is a stupid statement. Not every old boat requires a rebuild . Check for any soft spots on the decks , if anything is screwed into the transom ask the owner if you can unscrew a couple of the lowest ones . See if any water comes out and if you have a small pick dig it in and pull out some shavings to see if they are dry.

Think they said it has a "Mercruiser 260" which I believe is the good old 350 Chevy. Good idea on the removing transducer screws or something to check for water. Definitely seen my share of rotten wood transoms. Part of what I really like about my SC, it is totally visible for inspection just by crawling under the splash well. Is the 3.7 a known unreliable engine?