The Lame will walk

mattttt25

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Re: The Lame will walk

edwards had every right to express his opinion of bush. bush is clearly against abortion and stem cell research. if you agree with his views, vote for him. science is showing strong potential with stem cells, and if this science was allowed to proceed without govt regulation, could possibly cure many diseases and ailments. i personally feel stem cell research should proceed full force, but i also believe in abortion. just my thoughts.
 

ob

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Re: The Lame will walk

Interesting thread.With the current state of medical insurance and the potential cost of stem cell technology,if it ever grabs hold,I'm wondering who besides the financially blessed could afford the procedure.Maybe a stem cell lotto of sorts for the common folk.I have my views as well on the abortion issue and when life begins.....but it's not important.
 

Boomyal

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Re: The Lame will walk

Originally posted by rolmops:<br /> Kagee,I am not sure whether we are on the same page.But if I understand you,it seems to me that you are making sweeping generalisations with little backup.The procedure you describe is one that is almost exclusively used to save a mother's life.
Rolmop's, a pure and simple example of making up the 'facts' to support your agenda. I defy you to show a measurable percentage of cases where late term abortion was used to save the Mother's life. This is pure and simple an arguement that has Zero merit.
 

Boomyal

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Re: The Lame will walk

Originally posted by mattttt25:<br /> bush is clearly against abortion and stem cell research.
Again, another distortion! Bush is NOT against stem cell research. He is against embrionic stem cell research. Where do you get your information, Mattttt, from Michael Moore???<br /><br />And just in case you haven't figured it out, where do you think they get embrionic stem cells? From fetuses that die in car accidents? Give me a break!!
 

dick

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Re: The Lame will walk

Originally posted by LubeDude:<br /> According to Senator John Edwards, If they are elected because they will back stem cell research, the lame will walk again. There is at this time "NO" research that says this is even a posibility. Also incinuating that its George bushs fault that Christopher Reaves died.
Where did you find this ? I've been seaching on the web since his death and can't find this speech.
 

WillyBWright

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Re: The Lame will walk

I'm personally against abortion, but I'm far more against a bunch of men in high places telling a woman what she can or can't do with her body. I'm also against harvesting stem cells as a cash crop. I hope that never happens. I doubt it will. But they will find that there are perfectly acceptable means of getting them other than by killing babies. Sorry, but the argument regarding trading one life for another doesn't hold water here. Let the research move on, but let it be ethically done. We just have to figure out what "ethical" is. Simple enough. NOT!!! Keep the debate alive! Eventually we'll find a solution that equally pisses off both sides. It's called "compromise".
 

Boomyal

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Re: The Lame will walk

Originally posted by Richard,fka ****:<br />
Originally posted by LubeDude:<br /> According to Senator John Edwards, If they are elected because they will back stem cell research, the lame will walk again. There is at this time "NO" research that says this is even a posibility. Also incinuating that its George bushs fault that Christopher Reaves died.
Where did you find this ? I've been seaching on the web since his death and can't find this speech.
Try this Richard. It's a short blurb on the front page. No elaboration.<br /><br /> http://drudgereport.com/
 

dogsdad

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Re: The Lame will walk

Originally posted by WillyBWright:<br /> I'm personally against abortion, but I'm far more against a bunch of men in high places telling a woman what she can or can't do with her body.
That phrase, "a bunch of men in high places," is a bit of a rheotorical dung. This is a republic, and the laws are a reflection of the will of the people, not just a handful of domineering men.<br /><br /><br />-dd-
 

kd6nem

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Re: The Lame will walk

Not only are FETAL stem cells not the only kind stem cells, but to date no one has been successfully treated with fetal stem cell therapy. However, at the least many hundreds, probably even a few thousand ARE successfully treated with adult stem cells or umbilical stem cells every year, and the number is growing. The technology that IS proven to work is NOT the fetal kind. In fact, there have been problems with tumor development in test animals given fetal stem cells according to one report. Yet the non-fetal research is proving more promising than ever. <br /><br />It occurs to me the main reason that is so controversial is that many are not being told the truth, and are thus misinformed. One person at the forefront of the argument, Senator Feinstein, has been caught outright lying to to the Senate about many "facts" regarding stem cell research. Yet the press continues to report that sort of thing as true, never challenging the falsehoods. No one who is willing to be dishonest for their cause is worthy of their cause much less public office. (The arrogant elite don't care about rules or anything other than their god- POWER)<br /><br />When so much more promise exists in what has already been demonstrated to work, why all the fuss about FETAL stem cells? The fact is our President has no problem with allowing or funding the better technology anyway. There must be something more behind this shady argument pushed by the left. Sen. Edward's alleged statement (if confirmed) tells me that he is as willing to distort the truth in the name of getting elected just as his running mate is. This knowledge about stem cells is not hidden from anyone who cares to find it. There is no excuse for these lies continuing.
 

12Footer

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Re: The Lame will walk

Originally posted by WillyBWright:<br /> I'm personally against abortion, but I'm far more against a bunch of men in high places telling a woman what she can or can't do with her body. I'm also against harvesting stem cells as a cash crop. I hope that never happens. I doubt it will. Eventually we'll find a solution that equally pisses off both sides. It's called "compromise".
Originally posted by 12Footer:<br /> The point is, this canidate for VP is using the death of Chris Reeves to bash Bush from another angle. This goes beyond low-ball politics. Mr Reeve was not even cold yet,and Edwards blames his death on Bush!<br />To top it off, real scientists will admit that there is little to zero chance that stem cell research will eventually lead to a cure for spinal cord damage of the type Reeves had.<br /><br />Read;<br /> Nor does the government ban stem cell research , It only bans any further funding of same. It does not interfere with the private sector at all, Willy<br />{Your} party is using this issue to attack the conservatives, and that is all there is to it.<br /><br />To thier great shame!
 

12Footer

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Re: The Lame will walk

It's not an issue to campaign on. They should not even try. What about the concentrating on issues under thier direct influence , and leave issues involving private sector administration out of it. "Thith twead ith quickly becomming ludacwith".<br />Some things, the president just cannot butcher, no matter how much thier opponents try to tell you otherwise.
 

mellowyellow

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Re: The Lame will walk

stems cells DON'T COME FROM ABORTED CHILDREN!<br />do you think it's better to put an umbilical<br />cord in the garbage? you should research the<br />topic before crying wolf y'all...<br />we all have stem cells in our bodies even as<br />adults.<br />cheeze whiz,<br />M.Y.
 

KaGee

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Re: The Lame will walk

To Mr. Rolmops:<br /><br />I doubt this will mean anything to you, since liberals only acknowledge truth when it suits their case. <br />The "saving the life of the mother" argument is ludecrous. The baby is extracted 3/4 of the way out of the birth canal. It is done so in a manner that it is more invasive to the mother than actually giving birth. <br />From abortionfacts.com in reference to PARTIAL BIRTH ABORTION:<br /><br />
IS THIS TYPE OF ABORTION RARE?<br /><br />When this type of procedure first became public knowledge, those defending it said it was only done a few hundred times a year. Then Ron Fitzsimmons, the executive director of the National Coalition of Abortion Providers admitted on ABC’s “Nightline” (11/95) that he had lied when he asserted the procedure was used rarely and only on women whose lives were in danger. The reality is, this gruesome method of killing partially born babies is done many thousands of times a year. Abortionist, Dr. McMahon, admitted in 1995 to performing over 2000 partial birth abortions.<br />
You can visit the sight to read the article in total.<br /><br />I stand on the facts Rol ... John Edwards supports P.B.A. . John Edwards sues OB/GYN's for malpractice in delivering a baby.
 

kenimpzoom

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Re: The Lame will walk

MY the whole debate is about fetal stem cells, which do come from aborted children. This is the one and only type of stem cell research that the government refuses to give grants for.<br /><br />All other stem cells are OK in my book.<br /><br />Ken
 

mellowyellow

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Re: The Lame will walk

sorry Ken, but didn't see the word "fetal" in<br />lubedudes orig. post. I think most folks believe<br />that all stem cells come from fetus'.
 

gsbodine

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Re: The Lame will walk

Originally posted by Bearcat Powered:<br />Not only are FETAL stem cells not the only kind stem cells, but to date no one has been successfully treated with fetal stem cell therapy. However, at the least many hundreds, probably even a few thousand ARE successfully treated with adult stem cells or umbilical stem cells every year, and the number is growing. The technology that IS proven to work is NOT the fetal kind.
It seems to me that this is precisely why more research needs to be done. As mentioned above, this field of research is EXTREMELY new. If you pay any attention at all, you realize that medical studies and trials, even with animals only, take millions of dollars and several years. It's even more and longer for human trials. This research has only been around since 1998, and couldn't use any federal money until 2001. How fast do you think this stuff can happen? <br />
<br />In fact, there have been problems with tumor development in test animals given fetal stem cells according to one report. Yet the non-fetal research is proving more promising than ever. <br />
This is another excellent reason for more rearch being required. It is the non-differentiation and pluripotency of the cells that makes the embryonic cells differ from other stem cells. That is the reason for increased tumor development, but it is also exactly why there is far more potential in that area of research.<br />
<br />It occurs to me the main reason that is so controversial is that many are not being told the truth, and are thus misinformed. snip the anecdote and following spin...
That does indeed seem to be case here--and it's hardly one-sided. I doubt that most scientists think that Diane Feinstein is capable of explaining exactly what it is they do. This is an unfortunate of representative government and lobbying. One must explain to people outside the field the effects of allowing or disallowing this, that, or the other. It so happens that many laws have had unintended consequences (DMCA, PATRIOT [sic] Act (sort of), et al.) because the lawyers and politicians didn't understand what they were saying. I realize that rant was off-topic somewhat, and I apologize, but will leave it anyway. <br /><br />
<br />When so much more promise exists in what has already been demonstrated to work, why all the fuss about FETAL stem cells?
If you understand the science behind gene therapy, differentiation, and pluri- vs. multipotency, then you have your answer. <br />
<br /><br />The fact is our President has no problem with allowing or funding the better technology anyway. There must be something more behind this shady argument pushed by the left. [...] This knowledge about stem cells is not hidden from anyone who cares to find it. There is no excuse for these lies continuing.
I'm not sure what "knowledge you're talking about there, but for the most part you're right about Bush. It was only because of him that funding is allowed now, even if only to the small number of pre-existing lines. If the harvesting is ethical, I would like to see that part of the law changed. The *fact* is, there is a difference in stem cell types, and more research is desperately needed. <br /><br />And Bearcat Powered, on a personal note, this reposnse was not really directed at you personally. You seemed to sum up many of the comments above and it seemed the most convenient way to address some of the repeated questions in this thread. With respect, Shan.
 

KaGee

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Re: The Lame will walk

Originally posted by mellowyellow:<br /> stems cells DON'T COME FROM ABORTED CHILDREN!<br />do you think it's better to put an umbilical<br />cord in the garbage? you should research the<br />topic before crying wolf y'all...<br />we all have stem cells in our bodies even as<br />adults.<br />cheeze whiz,<br />M.Y.
MY, the cells that they want to "research" are the "embryonic" stem cells.... i.e. from an embryo. Whis is legal, Bush just does not want to Federally fund this research.<br /><br />The stem cells you refer to are being used and funded. <br /><br />I believe that an emryo is life. <br />To destroy an embryo is to destroy life.<br />The destruction of life, to save a life is morally and ethically a wrong philosopy.
 

mellowyellow

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Re: The Lame will walk

but they have the same "embryonic" stem cells in<br />in the umbilical cords??? it's just like most<br />issues these days, the right and left both<br />exagerate the issue and the truth is somewhere<br />in the middle...
 

gsbodine

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Re: The Lame will walk

Originally posted by mellowyellow:<br /> but they have the same "embryonic" stem cells in<br />in the umbilical cords???
Actually, no. They're not the same. Embryonic stem cells come only from a *very* recently fertilized egg, whether in vitro, or in vivo,. The difference is in their plasticity--the ability to differentiate into other cells.
 

SoulWinner

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Re: The Lame will walk

Gee, you guys sure do expose the liberal ignorance/hypocrisy with aplomb! Nice work!
 
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