The deed is done!

[jtexas]

Re: The deed is done!

You use the term "overwhelming weight" a lot.

You say "the overwelming weight of actions by Muslims in todays' world". The conflicts with Israel, and with other Muslim countries are about real estate and political power, not religion. Doesn't leave much.

You say the "overwhelming weight of their press, (print, audio and video)". Implying that you review all the Middle Eastern press on a daily basis. Have to admit, I'm skeptical. How many Middle Eastern languages do you speak?

You say "Muslim mothers train their muslim babies to hate right out of the box." How many Muslim mothers do you know? Or children, for that matter.

You say "Muslims that are peaceful...are very few in number." Implying that you've counted them. I guess peaceful Muslims don't make headlines (except maybe on the international business pages). I'm talkin headlines in the western world, since I don't speak any Middle Eastern languages.

You cite western authors who say "adhearants are allowed and sometimes expected to lie to, steal from, kill, torture non believers" yet I know of no Muslim sect other than Al Qaeda who advocate or engage in those practices.

Crowds dancing in the streets mean nothing - I've seen photos of crowds dancing in the streets of America after Hiroshima and Nagasake, and I won't judge any of those people on that basis.

I hope you're not really advocating the wholesale slaughter of Muslims.

 

[crunch]

Re: The deed is done!

You cite western authors who say "adhearants are allowed and sometimes expected to lie to, steal from, kill, torture non believers" yet I know of no Muslim sect other than Al Qaeda who advocate or engage in those practices.

Like I said before, you need to do some research...

The Saudi public school system totals 25,000 schools, educating about 5 million students. In addition, Saudi Arabia runs academies in 19 world capitals, including one outside Washington in Fairfax County, that use some of these same religious texts.

Saudi Arabia also distributes its religion texts worldwide to numerous Islamic schools and madrassas that it does not directly operate. Undeterred by Wahhabism's historically fringe status, Saudi Arabia is trying to assert itself as the world's authoritative voice on Islam -- a sort of "Vatican" for Islam, as several Saudi officials have stated-- and these textbooks are integral to this effort. As the report of the commission investigating the Sept. 11 attacks observed, "Even in affluent countries, Saudi-funded Wahhabi schools are often the only Islamic schools" available.

Education is at the core of the debate over freedom in the Muslim world. Al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden understands this well; in a recent audiotape he railed against those who would "interfere with school curricula."

The passages below -- drawn from the same set of Saudi texts proudly cited in the new 74-page review of curriculum reform now being distributed by the Saudi Embassy -- are shaping the views of the next generation of Saudis and Muslims worldwide. Unchanged, they will only harden and deepen hatred, intolerance and violence toward other faiths and cultures. Is this what Riyadh calls reform?

religion@freedomhouse.org

FIRST GRADE

" Every religion other than Islam is false."

"Fill in the blanks with the appropriate words (Islam, hellfire): Every religion other than ______________ is false. Whoever dies outside of Islam enters ____________."

FOURTH GRADE

"True belief means . . . that you hate the polytheists and infidels but do not treat them unjustly."

FIFTH GRADE

"Whoever obeys the Prophet and accepts the oneness of God cannot maintain a loyal friendship with those who oppose God and His Prophet, even if they are his closest relatives."

"It is forbidden for a Muslim to be a loyal friend to someone who does not believe in God and His Prophet, or someone who fights the religion of Islam."

"A Muslim, even if he lives far away, is your brother in religion. Someone who opposes God, even if he is your brother by family tie, is your enemy in religion."

SIXTH GRADE

"Just as Muslims were successful in the past when they came together in a sincere endeavor to evict the Christian crusaders from Palestine, so will the Arabs and Muslims emerge victorious, God willing, against the Jews and their allies if they stand together and fight a true jihad for God, for this is within God's power."

EIGHTH GRADE

"As cited in Ibn Abbas: The apes are Jews, the people of the Sabbath; while the swine are the Christians, the infidels of the communion of Jesus."

"God told His Prophet, Muhammad, about the Jews, who learned from parts of God's book [the Torah and the Gospels] that God alone is worthy of worship. Despite this, they espouse falsehood through idol-worship, soothsaying, and sorcery. In doing so, they obey the devil. They prefer the people of falsehood to the people of the truth out of envy and hostility. This earns them condemnation and is a warning to us not to do as they did."

"They are the Jews, whom God has cursed and with whom He is so angry that He will never again be satisfied [with them]."

"Some of the people of the Sabbath were punished by being turned into apes and swine. Some of them were made to worship the devil, and not God, through consecration, sacrifice, prayer, appeals for help, and other types of worship. Some of the Jews worship the devil. Likewise, some members of this nation worship the devil, and not God."

"Activity: The student writes a composition on the danger of imitating the infidels."

NINTH GRADE

"The clash between this [Muslim] community (umma) and the Jews and Christians has endured, and it will continue as long as God wills."

"It is part of God's wisdom that the struggle between the Muslim and the Jews should continue until the hour [of judgment]."

"Muslims will triumph because they are right. He who is right is always victorious, even if most people are against him."

TENTH GRADE

The 10th-grade text on jurisprudence teaches that life for non-Muslims (as well as women, and, by implication, slaves) is worth a fraction of that of a "free Muslim male." Blood money is retribution paid to the victim or the victim's heirs for murder or injury:

"Blood money for a free infidel. [Its quantity] is half of the blood money for a male Muslim, whether or not he is 'of the book' or not 'of the book' (such as a pagan, Zoroastrian, etc. ).

"Blood money for a woman: Half of the blood money for a man, in accordance with his religion. The blood money for a Muslim woman is half of the blood money for a male Muslim, and the blood money for an infidel woman is half of the blood money for a male infidel."

ELEVENTH GRADE

"The greeting 'Peace be upon you' is specifically for believers. It cannot be said to others."

"If one comes to a place where there is a mixture of Muslims and infidels, one should offer a greeting intended for the Muslims."

"Do not yield to them [Christians and Jews] on a narrow road out of honor and respect."



TWELFTH GRADE

"Jihad in the path of God -- which consists of battling against unbelief, oppression, injustice, and those who perpetrate it -- is the summit of Islam. This religion arose through jihad and through jihad was its banner raised high. It is one of the noblest acts, which brings one closer to God, and one of the most magnificent acts of obedience to God."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/19/AR2006051901769_pf.html

 

[Haut Medoc]

Re: The deed is done!

Is that true?
Let's invade Saudi Arabia!.....8)

 

[crunch]

Re: The deed is done!

Yes Haut, it's true and only the tip of the iceberg.... what do you think they teach in Sunday School?

 

[Haut Medoc]

Re: The deed is done!

Burqa stitching 101?

 

[crunch]

Re: The deed is done!

Burqa stitching 101?

That's for the girls....

Sword sharpening 101 for the boys.

 

[OldMercsRule]

Re: The deed is done!

Jtexas: Crunch is exactly right. You need to do some research, (maybe a whole lot of research). You may be so demanding in your protocall that you may have to learn lots of foreign or formerly used languages to come to whatever level of understanding you need to reach viable conclusions that you can act upon. You may have to personally moniter Middle East communications for many many hours, due to your skepticism about the research existing authors on the subject (that I respect) have already done. I understand skepticisim, and it is generally healthy until it becomes rationalizing repetitive horrible actions that are fairly obvious to most impartial observers on the face of their own personal observations or research. Since we are discussing over a billion people, it would be hard to personally know a statistically significant sample to draw conclusions from. So maybe you just need to be a skeptic and POO POO anything that does not meet your preconcieved notions that appear to be that Islam is a missunderstood RELIGION OF PEACE, ('cause it's not). I don't mean this to be personal to you, as I really enjoy political discoarse with articulate people where I learn a lot, and don't lose business or get my car keyed, (as is common here for outspoken conservatives in Seattle). Respectfully, (and I really mean that), JR

 

[Haut Medoc]

Re: The deed is done!


Quit saying you are from Seattle.....
Bellevue is not Seattle......

Your liberal friend from Seattle.....JK

 

[jtexas]

Re: The deed is done!

ok, so who you gonna believe, the Washington Post, or me?

In any case, lets think carefully before advocating the wholesale slaughter of over a billion souls. Or inciting violence against peaceful people. I've been living next door to a Muslim family for years, and none of them has ever shown up at my door with a bomb strapped to their belts.

[LOL @ the thought of such "repetitive actions" as suicide bombing......]

 

[Haut Medoc]

Re: The deed is done!

[LOL @ the thought of such "repetitive actions" as suicide bombing......]
8)

 

[OldMercsRule]

Re: The deed is done!

Jtexas, I am NOT advocating the wholesale slaughter of Muslims in any way shape or form! Please read my words: not my mind. I am advocating a realistic sober Un Politically Correct approach to prima facia facts as they exist today. You and I and most Americans, Europeans, Japanise, Indians, (the non Muslim ones), Chinese, etc. are facing a real threat from Islamo Facists that influence many more Muslims that may not normally present a threat. If people in our country and our so called soft bellied allies hamper our efforts, (as they have done so far), and force those who have demonstrated real courage in confronting this very real threat to run for cover, (in Iraq or anywhere), then my prediction is that we will potentially react very furiously to the next 9/11. I do not think the Islamo Facists can be retrained or rehabilitated, and if the Libs suceed in getting them set loose from Gitmo the bigger problems will present themselves. In WW2 we did what we had to to win and I don't want this current conflict to devolve to that level as I fear it will. Respectfully JR

 

[OldMercsRule]

Re: The deed is done!

[quote time=1168294796 user=Haut Medoc uid=44666 fid=20 tid= rid=147]
Quit saying you are from Seattle.....
Bellevue is not Seattle......

Your liberal friend from Seattle.....JK[/quote]

Hey Haut, I live in Bothell, own a little business in B'vue, went to a HS in NE Seattle, and attended the UW until my Degree (right out of HS). So I think of myself as a Seattleite. They maybe a little more conservative over here in B'vue, but not much. Eastern Washington: now you're talking my style!!!! JR

 

[QC]

Re: The deed is done!

I think of myself as a Seattleite.

Are Seattleites the ones that point up or point down?

 

[Haut Medoc]

Re: The deed is done!

That would depend on whether you were a conservative or liberal.....
I would consider myself a stalagmite....
Does that help? d

 

[QC]

Re: The deed is done!

Phew, I was worried that you might point both directions

 

[OldMercsRule]

Re: The deed is done!

I think there are some that do point in multiple directions, here in this town. My brother calls his home town (Seattle); "Gay Bay North" No offence meant to my friends in Seattle (where their doors do swing both ways). JR

 

[Haut Medoc]

Re: The deed is done!

Not here in Greenwood!
OMaR, since you are in Bothell, do something about them Icos sellouts!...:%
Your Libertarian Seattle friend....

 

[artburr]

Re: The deed is done!

Saddam is dead. I hope this helps the Iraqis get on with their lives. If not, it was not meant to be. For the life of me I cannot understand how a group of people who have lived under such tyranny cannot pull together to put their lives back on a realistic path.

Then I have never lived in Ireland or Iraq!

Here is the straight scoop. You have been misled by an Administration that is clueless about middle east politics and culture. Iraq is a newly created (after WW II) country with no history of self governance. They are a tribal society led, in different areas, by religeous leaders that have no respect each other. Democracy is a concept that is foriegn to them so why embrace or fight for it?

"W" and his advisors were and continue to be completely ignorant of the situation there!

 

[crunch]

Re: The deed is done!

Art, do you really think no one in the world but you knows these facts?... what is your point?... we should leave "well enough alone?"... not try to change things for the better?.... Do you still make your bed in the highest tree you can find and venture out on the savanna just to steal the carcass from the vultures?

If we left "well enough alone" we would be speaking Japanese, German, Russian, Chinese, or maybe Eskimo.

You need to look in your History Books and see what happens to cowards, see what happens to Governments that "seek the Status Quo"... that cave to "threat" and only seek safety.

Jtexas, are you doing your research, or do you concede my point?

 

[artburr]

Re: The deed is done!

It isn't a matter of right or wrong. It simply won't work. I can tell you a few things that might have worked if you have the time.