Suzuki Sucks!

[micel]

Re: Suzuki Sucks!

There are people on this site that know this engine inside-out and they are ignoring this post,I wonder why ? I'm sure they have seen it !

 

[Skinnywater]

Re: Suzuki Sucks!

Check the ignition switch, the white wire to the computer must have proper voltge. Idle control valve next, the valve corrodes and will not always set a code. All engine control systems must be within specs when engine is hot. You are not the only to have this problem. It is heat related problem.

There are people on this site that know this engine inside-out and they are ignoring this post,I wonder why ? I'm sure they have seen it !

ENTIRELY too much complaining and not enough reading. Thanks Clanton for your sincere efforts and knowledge.

 

[deejaycee_2000]

Re: Suzuki Sucks!

hahahahaha

 

[yukonpike]

Re: Suzuki Sucks!

Boy now I wish I had not bought a Suzuki for my boat115hp EFI. Up here in Alaska where I go on the Yukon River you might not see another person for a week or more. Have owned other motors, Honda and others and this one runs great. If it ever does fail I do have a small back up motor to get me out. It might take me a while but it will work. Also it is a Suzuki 9.9hp that runs great.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: Suzuki Sucks!

I worked suzuki's for 5 or 6 years until 1995.
my biggest issue was lack of corperate support for the dealer and the fact to many techs are terrifeid of a DVM,or most any other real test equipment, and therefore never learn how to interpet it.
some of the Yamaha F200/225 motors have suffered sticking ISC(IAC) valves.
its easy to find, leakdown test to eliminate engine mechanicals,spark test to eliminate ign,fuel rail test to insure adequate fuel rail pressure. then simply cover the ISC intake hose with your thumb and see if you can manually throttle it.
if you can the ISC is stuck.
I really doubt its a suzuki issue but a lack of dealership training efforts.
most dealerships dont like to send Techs to school regularly. thats why I go at least twice a year even if I do pay all costs out of my pocket.
it really sounds like no actual trouble shooting has been attempted,just tossing parts at it.
remember, the sequence is,suck,squeeze,bang and blow.
lose any of them and it wont go.
I dont think I have seen but a handful of 70 EFI suzukis yet I am very familiar with both speed/density EFI and mass airflow EFI and there are not but so many ways to make it work no matter who made the powerplant nor its application.
so you have to find which of the four subsystems you lost and break them into their respective subsystems.
shouldnt take long with a trained competent tech.
you have to have intake of the correct air/fuel ratio,compression,spark at the correct time and an exhaust path.
lose anyone and it runs poorly or not at all.

 

[diver22]

Re: Suzuki Sucks!

Suzuki has their "senior tech" on the job, but he cant figure it out! There is only 1 authorized service dealer on central/northern CA. The engine runs great, as long as I dont shut it down. I would have to say that Customer Service should be a compainies priority.

 

[Nellie's Owner]

Re: Suzuki Sucks!

Although I would never own a Suzuki outboard, I can feel your pain as my old Yamaha 225 is not doing well right now. I had some friends who were loaned a bass boat due to their rig being repaired under warranty. They felt that the engine was making a whining noise when they throttled to get out of the hole; something to the affect of "you are pushing me too hard". Anyway, I hope that it works out for you and they actually replace your motor.

 

[Big Keepers]

Re: Suzuki Sucks!

I worked suzuki's for 5 or 6 years until 1995.
my biggest issue was lack of corperate support for the dealer and the fact to many techs are terrifeid of a DVM,or most any other real test equipment, and therefore never learn how to interpet it.
some of the Yamaha F200/225 motors have suffered sticking ISC(IAC) valves.
its easy to find, leakdown test to eliminate engine mechanicals,spark test to eliminate ign,fuel rail test to insure adequate fuel rail pressure. then simply cover the ISC intake hose with your thumb and see if you can manually throttle it.
if you can the ISC is stuck.
I really doubt its a suzuki issue but a lack of dealership training efforts.
most dealerships dont like to send Techs to school regularly. thats why I go at least twice a year even if I do pay all costs out of my pocket.
it really sounds like no actual trouble shooting has been attempted,just tossing parts at it.
remember, the sequence is,suck,squeeze,bang and blow.
lose any of them and it wont go.
I dont think I have seen but a handful of 70 EFI suzukis yet I am very familiar with both speed/density EFI and mass airflow EFI and there are not but so many ways to make it work no matter who made the powerplant nor its application.
so you have to find which of the four subsystems you lost and break them into their respective subsystems.
shouldnt take long with a trained competent tech.
you have to have intake of the correct air/fuel ratio,compression,spark at the correct time and an exhaust path.
lose anyone and it runs poorly or not at all.

Probably the best piece of advice yet. I should have known to say that, it's preached to me every night in class. Mechanics that want to make real money get certified by the manufacturer and keep their certifications up to date by going to training school once a year. Motors are not these rediculously impossible entities that can't be diagnosed. You have to know where to look. Simply swapping parts, even under warranty only leads to wasted time and bad opinions.

 

[hopalong]

Re: Suzuki Sucks!

Sorry for your misfortune for lack of a good dealer/service tech. I'm sure you're not the only needle in the haystack that has a problem with an outboard with the dealer/service tech sucks and con't find the problem. ALL MAKES AND MODELS OF ROTATING MECHANICAL ASSEMBLIES WHETHER IT BE AN OUTBOARD MOTOR, AUTO ENGINE, MOTORCYCLE OR EVEN A HOME AIR CONDITIONING COMPRESSOR HAS THEIR ONE UNIQUE TROUBLESHOOTING ISSUE AND YES THERE ARE SERVICE TECHS/DEALER THAT ARE WELL ABUNDANT AT NOT FINDING THE PROBLEM. Suzuki service is not alone in this dealer/customer relationship, although their dealer services in US local areas are few and far between. Finding a good one still may not solve the problem for they too can have that one problem out of a hundred they can't solve.

AS I've stated before the Suzuki DT115 I've had since 1986 has done me well and only replaced it recently with an "87" DT140. I replaced the worn out head on the DT115 and now its ready to go on a boat. I'm sure most Yammies, Mercs and Rudes owners who have had the kind of "luck" I've had with Suzuki would stay with the brand thay have. Well the ones that dont just switch and jump aboard the "other" brand either to find out it paid off or had that one bad luck decision. You never know when that fringing "lemon" motor or "lemon"dealer will get ya.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: Suzuki Sucks!

I have never seen a lemon nor an issue I could not fix. could be why I get calls from Kennesaw and referrals from Kennesaw.
I have had some issues beat on me but never one I could not find.
internal combustion engines are very very simple. they have the mechanical system, its either broke or it aint.
they have a fuel delivery system,the cylinder does not care how the fuel and air got there,it cares that the correct amount of each got there.
it has an ignition system, break it down to its subsystems and its simple. and lastly ya have to get the exhaust gasses out.
so either the tech can find it in a reasonable amount of time or he/she is incompetent.
your hot start issue should take 2 hours,tops.
run it, shut it down. if it wont restart check for spark. no sparky go find the defect in the ignition system.
if it sparks go hunt fuel. whether to much or not enough.
some EFI motors suffered from excessive vapors flooding the intake from the VST after a hot soak.
this can be found simply by moving the shutters to WOT and cranking it, the extra air will overcome the vapors and it will start.
the plugs will tell you if its rich or not.
like I say, its amazing they pay what they do for doing work most 5th graders could do.

 

[BruceAML]

Re: Suzuki Sucks!

When your DF70 is hot and you try to start the engine does it crank at the same speed that it does when it is cold? Is there a strong spark when you try to start it when it is hot?

 

[diver22]

Re: Suzuki Sucks!

Yes it does crank at the sme revolution speed. The tech said the problem is not in the fuel sustem and it is getting spark. The Suzuki tech has given up on the problem, and customer service is worthless, so I finally had to hire an attorney. Suzukis policy is " no refunds and no replacements even if the engine is under warranty" In talking to the customer service person, he tells me " I will look into the problem" (8 phone calls) and I have recieved 1 call back. Shouldn't a company of this size stick behind their product? what would the real cost be to replace the engine?

 

[rodbolt]

Re: Suzuki Sucks!

I dont think its a corperate issue. I think its a dumb bass tech issue.
tell the tech most of us professionals think he is an idiot.
by this time the issue should have been resolved, even if the dealer/tech has to eat the test hours. which we do with amazing regularity.

 

[BillP]

Re: Suzuki Sucks!

Sounds to me the "corp" is letting a customer hang by not having the engine running yet...and by having a dealer who can't get the job done. 2-1/2 months is way too long for legit reasons on a motor still under warranty. Somebody above the tech level has dropped the customer satisfaction ball and the buck stops at the top. I'd be major pixxed too.

 

[hopalong]

Re: Suzuki Sucks!

Ditto

 

[EricR]

Re: Suzuki Sucks!

I always tell people I have heard "I don't care what name is on the valve cover, I have heard people say they will never own another one of these"

Of coarse, this deals with inboard diesels.

Dude, maybe you got a lemon. Maybe you have not found the tech that can fix the issue. Move on with your life.

 

[JB]

Re: Suzuki Sucks!

Bashing Suzuki, the wrench, the dealer, etc.etc, ad infinitum, is getting you nowhere. This thread sounds like an "aint it awful" gossip session.

This Forum is about solutions, not brand bashing.

Rodbolt is exactly correct. There is no problem that cannot be diagnosed by systematic troubleshooting. Changing parts is not troubleshooting, systematic or otherwise.

There is a part associated with starting that does not work properly when hot. Once the engine is running that part has no effect. That part may be hardware or it may be soft (firm) ware. The self diagnostics don't see it and don't make trouble codes for it.

It seems reasonable to me that if that part is made hot on an otherwise cold engine the engine will decline to start, or if it is made cold on an otherwise hot engine the engine will start. Follow me?

Your wrench and dealer are probably so demotivated by your frustration that they are not the right folks to repair your engine.

Get a new, motivated, trained and certified wrench to go to work on that engine with either a heat gun or a cold spray. Carefully applied, I suspect that method will expose the fault.

 

[BruceAML]

Re: Suzuki Sucks!

I will have to respectfully disagree with JB. This thread is most informative. It indicates the level of support that Suzuki provides to it's customers. It indicates that customer satisfaction is not a priority with Suzuki. I have read similar things about other Suzuki products. It is very easy to blame mechanics and dealers and write about how you could easily fix the problem. It is another thing to actually fix the problem. It is also easy to say that a person is whining but if you have a product that is not usuable you are entitled to complain. I am sure this was not a cheap motor. If Suzuki was truly concerned about their reputation and good customer relations they would stand behind their product or give the person another motor. Iboats is not a Suzuki dealer so there is no need to worry about what you call "brand bashing". You will notice that there are over 909 views of this thread and 37 replies. That indicates to me that people are very interested in this matter. You also state that this forum is about solutions. I do not see one single correct solution. If it was as easy as everyone says, it would have been fixed. I also resent the fact that you say it is a "gossip session". You need to apologize to all of us who you consider "gossip mongers". This is a factual account and not gossip.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: Suzuki Sucks!

Actually I agree with JB.
I started twisting wrenches and started formal twisting training at age 15. had my first chiltons manual at age 8.
I am now 45 and have twisted more than one wrench for more than one dealer both auto and marine.
the brand name rarely controls the dealership.
my new Ford Ranger is a prime example.
took ten thousand miles and many trips to the dealer before they acknowledged my truck had a defect.
then it took 2 calls to Ford to get a warrenty repair authorized.
next truck will most likly be a Toyota simply because of lousy dealer support for Ford in my area.

The man on the phone at Ford told me they could not dictate anything to a dealership as they were all indepentant franchises just as most all marine dealers are.

but the no hot start issue is fairly easy to solve.
when its hot and wont start,attach a peak reading meter to a coil primary,attach a fuel pressure guage to the rail.
crank the engine.
if you have correct primary coil voltage and correct fuel pressure its time to look at the air fuel mix in the cylinder. its either to much or not enough.
from there its simple to find which.
the solution may take a creative technician.
the electronic controls on a modern outboard are rather simple.
intimidating to some but actually rather simple.
on most outboards its very rare the lap top tells me whats wrong and I dont expect it to.
however it tells me what is not wrong very rapidly.
saves time chasing ghosts.

 

[BruceAML]

Re: Suzuki Sucks!

It is always convenient to blame the mechanic but if you look at the automotive side of things each year auto manufacturers buy back about 100,000 lemons. Many of these are assembly line defects that are almost impossible to correct. There should be a lemon law for outboards as well. Here is just one example: "Nissan must buy back all that remain of the 33,000 fire prone mini vans it sold in the U.S. between 1987-1990 after pressure from a safety research firm and the NHTSA. The California class action agreement only gave van owner a $500 credit toward a vehicle brought from a Nissan dealer." In this particular case I am sure many people blamed the mechanics but the best mechanic in the world cannot repair certain defects. There are many other similar cases. In the case of Suzuki the internet is replete with poor customer service. Here is a link to someone who bought a 2007 Suzuki Xl7. He needed a part to repair it and was told by Suzuki the part was never manufactured. Suzuki customer service told him they do not know when the part will be available. Notice a pattern here?
http://www.thesqueakywheel.com/complaints/2007/SEP/complaint18151.cfm
The JD Power ratings for customer service for cars lists Suzuki as third from the bottom. On the other hand, Yamaha has great parts service and they have almost everything in stock going back to 1984 in the US. If they don't have it they will FEDEX it in from Japan. Their customer service is great.