stratos 91 with a sinking felling

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Re: stratos 91 with a sinking felling

i was thinking nida pourable for the transom then nida-core for the floor. with the pourable can you go up to the outside edge with out causing a hard spot wanted to use a dam method. i realy dont understand the hard edge rules when building.
 
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Re: stratos 91 with a sinking felling

finnaly got some spare time. found the stringers are made from solid 1" thick wood. dont know if thats a good thing or bad thing.
 

rickryder

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Re: stratos 91 with a sinking felling

Most likely 5/4 material ....that measures 1"
 
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Re: stratos 91 with a sinking felling

maybe i was kinda surprissed i thought it was going to be plywood in there. finding a lot of water under the foam and it stinks but the foam isnt satuated and i still havent found where the water is coming from slowly tearing out from the middle back as everything up front is clean and drawing the parts as i go. i hope when i pull the transom i will get to see the problem. (can not decied how much to rip out until i find the root of the problem)
 
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Re: stratos 91 with a sinking felling

finally found where the water is coming from it a hole drilled under the transom into the stringer. no idea how i missed that until i pulled out some foam and the water that was under it started to go down. i guess the foam acted like a check valve which is why it would never leak when filled from the inside. still happy i popped the cap as it was a lot worse than i thought under the glass.
 
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Re: stratos 91 with a sinking felling

transoms out now i need some advise.

i think the boat is factory the way it was built indicates that the stringers and transom was put in then all the other wood was added like the deck etc then just one coat of heavy weave glass was put over the top of everything (roving?) the transom only had a very light csm on the back and then the front was built up with lots of layers of heavy weave and trimming into the sides and bottom of the boat. the transom was not covered around the top edge at all just painted black. the transom only connects to the back in the middle 3' due to the cupped back side of the boat shell then foam was poured between the wood and the shell in the back. alot of the damadge was due to wet wood termites they realy ate the transom and rear part of the deck.

now due to termites i have a choose of removing all wood which is proberly a impossible task as its in the cap and all sorts of small places or i treat the termites and replace the damadged sections as they require wet wood to survive. so due to 56hour weeks and only one day a week off for the next few months im considering cutting the stringers and sistering them about 2' past the bad section about mid point of the boat (staggered joints) and just replace what i need to ( i want 5 years trouble free out of the boat ). the stringers are bright white in this area with no signs of rot or termites and it will save me a lot of time just replacing the rear section.

so heres a list of questions.

1/ do i use poly or epoxy (i have some resin that mixs 2% is that poly? or does epoxy mix the same way)
2/ do i leave one surface uncovered or was that a old school idea of letting moisture out (realy want to seal all sides in case any bugs survive the treatment)
3/ is Arauco Plywood still a good idea or is there something else on the market about that price thats avalable at a home depo store
4/ for covering deck etc on top side what weight csm and cloth (will be carpeted)
5/ for coving underside whats the thinest fiberglass i can use so i dont gain height
6/ is it ok to buy the fiberglass tape rolls (8" 6" 4") for joining transom and stringers
7/ stringers are 5-4 can i replace the rear section (5') with 2 pieces of 1/2 ply glued to make a 1" thick piece or would it be better to find 1 x 10 wood (i thought most was pressure treaded decking in that size)
8/ whats the best all around additive to make putty or should i get something for buttering the transom back and something for filleting.
9/ what weight foam should i buy 4lb?

i know thats a lot of questions but the wholesale fiberglass supplier is 120miles away so its not like i can just pop over to grab something ive missed (even home depo or lowes is 65miles away)
 

GT1000000

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Re: stratos 91 with a sinking felling

Hello Glenn, I am on my way out to work on my tub...but I ahve a few minutes and will try to help the best I can...

Look for my answers in red next to your questions...


transoms out now i need some advise.

i think the boat is factory the way it was built indicates that the stringers and transom was put in then all the other wood was added like the deck etc then just one coat of heavy weave glass was put over the top of everything (roving?) the transom only had a very light csm on the back and then the front was built up with lots of layers of heavy weave and trimming into the sides and bottom of the boat. the transom was not covered around the top edge at all just painted black. the transom only connects to the back in the middle 3' due to the cupped back side of the boat shell then foam was poured between the wood and the shell in the back. alot of the damadge was due to wet wood termites they realy ate the transom and rear part of the deck.

now due to termites i have a choose of removing all wood which is proberly a impossible task as its in the cap and all sorts of small places or i treat the termites and replace the damadged sections as they require wet wood to survive. so due to 56hour weeks and only one day a week off for the next few months im considering cutting the stringers and sistering them about 2' past the bad section about mid point of the boat (staggered joints) and just replace what i need to ( i want 5 years trouble free out of the boat ). the stringers are bright white in this area with no signs of rot or termites and it will save me a lot of time just replacing the rear section.
I answer this below, personally, I would rather do this "Mission" only once per boat, so anything that is suspect, I would remove/replace...
so heres a list of questions.

1/ do i use poly or epoxy (i have some resin that mixs 2% is that poly? or does epoxy mix the same way)
Epoxy and POLY RESIN are two completely different products...Poly Resin is a sort of short hand for POLYESTER RESIN...
The recommended catalyst ratio for Poly is 1.5% to 2%, there are variations, but that is the standard...
2/ do i leave one surface uncovered or was that a old school idea of letting moisture out (realy want to seal all sides in case any bugs survive the treatment)
Not sure what you mean, but if you are referring to letting the moisture out of the foam, it won't happen for a very, very, very long time...if the wood is what you are reffering to, if it has gotten wet, the fungus that causes rot has probably already colonized in there and some time down the road that wood will also begin to rot, it is best to do it all right the first time, because, having to go back and redo stuff costs more money and time...3/ is Arauco Plywood still a good idea or is there something else on the market about that price thats avalable at a home depo storeArauco Plywood has been used by a lot of Iboaters here and has had very positive reviews, it's only drawback is availabilty, some stores carry it, others, you need to special order it, some don't...another choice is AC Exterior grade or Underlayment Plywood, they are both constructed using waterproof glue and are very good substitutes for Marine Grade Plywood, which is the most expensive, but the top choice.
4/ for covering deck etc on top side what weight csm and cloth (will be carpeted)
1.5 ounce CSM, both top and bottom, then one layer of 1708 on top, full coverage...the tabbing in is done with strips of CSM and Progressively larger strips of 1708...Look for "woodonglass" signature and see the one labeled Transoms, Decks and Stringers...5/ for coving underside whats the thinest fiberglass i can use so i dont gain height
Make your stringers shorter by 1/8-14 of an inch...
6/ is it ok to buy the fiberglass tape rolls (8" 6" 4") for joining transom and stringersYes but you pay for the cutting...
7/ stringers are 5-4 can i replace the rear section (5') with 2 pieces of 1/2 ply glued to make a 1" thick piece or would it be better to find 1 x 10 wood (i thought most was pressure treaded decking in that size)You can laminate the plywood, use Titebond III Glue, it is Waterproof when cured.
8/ whats the best all around additive to make putty or should i get something for buttering the transom back and something for filleting.
1/4" Milled Fibers and Cabosil [aka=Fumed Silica, Aerosil]9/ what weight foam should i buy 4lb?2# polyurethane liquid expanding pourable foam.


i know thats a lot of questions but the wholesale fiberglass supplier is 120miles away so its not like i can just pop over to grab something ive missed (even home depo or lowes is 65miles away)


For more information look to these links...Boat restoration is not just about doing it, it is an ongoing learning experience...the best way, even though it is time consuming, is to read, read, and then read some more...then ask, ask, ask...:D

http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=288451

http://www.uscomposites.com/index.html

http://www.fiberglasssite.com/servlet/StoreFront

http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wc...51&catalogId=10001&page=West-Advisor-Articles

Hope some of this helps...and as an added disclaimer, my answers are not the only ones and others will probably have more and better suggestions for you...

Best Regards,
GT1M
 
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Re: stratos 91 with a sinking felling

thanks that a lot of help. i will post some pics tommorrow to clear up what i meant about the original construction. i have removed all the damadged and wet wood except the rear half of the stingers as i ran out of blades for the jigsaw and i didnt want to cut the stringer and leave the end open. now i know that i have poly resin on hand (didnt want to use epoxy and have a problem bonding to it later)i will cut the stringers and cap them. if i find even the slightest hint of a problem in any stringer then i will except that the whole stringer will have to be replaced and gut the bottom of the boat. im intrested in what the idea was 20+ years ago was in leaving one side of the wood with out covering it was there a reason or was it just cheaper to build it that way. the front section of foam is dry but its not very neat as it was poured into holes in the deck so it never spread right to the edge so i plan on replacing 90% of it. i will read more and get the shopping list finnished once i am sure of how much im replacing. you quoted "Boat restoration is not just about doing it" and i agree but my intrest is in how something was original designed and how it failed which is why i removed the parts piece by piece instead of just going nuts and ripping the whole lot out in one go.
 
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Re: stratos 91 with a sinking felling

wing area.jpgcut pic.jpg



pic of the rear wing or what ever its called and pic of where i plan to cut and remove everything backwards. been reading and looking at the links didnt realise one place was is west palm so that will help
 

GT1000000

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Re: how do i get the top of a strator 16'2 bass boat 91

Re: how do i get the top of a strator 16'2 bass boat 91

Yeah, unfortunately most fiberglass boats fail due to several factors...

One is poor maintenance.

Another is poor storage conditions...

And the one that gets ya is the profit margin of the manufacturer...in boat building, labor and materials can run pretty high, and most boats have a limited production run of as little as a few to several hundred...making it necessary for the manufacturer to cut costs any way they can and still make a relatively safe product and meet expected profit margins...such is the nature of the beast...

One of the reasons the boats we restore, will probably outlast us, is that we are not in it for a profit...we are re-building them for ourselves the best we can with the best materials we can afford and since our labor is not taken into the equation...it actually ends up being a better product than the factory could profitably produce at a reduced cost versus buying a brand new boat...

Glad to hear some of the info has helped, keep on having Fun and enjoy...:)
 
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Re: how do i get the top of a strator 16'2 bass boat 91

Re: how do i get the top of a strator 16'2 bass boat 91

time for a update i guess......

grinders can remove finger tips as fast as they remove fiberglass but on a good note god thought about this problem and gave us spares in case we do dumb stuff.

its taken a whole day to cut the transom as it has some strange angles to it but after 20 test fits and a little touching up with a flapper disk its fits with a nice 1/4" gap all the way around and no hard spots.
18 holes in the transom are now repaired other than final sanding on the gel coat (got to check to make sure i didnt miss any before the transom goes in). found that a syringe works great as a gel coat squirt gun and is a lot easier to use than a brush in tiny areas. found a boat store in ft myres it wasnt the cheapest but it worked out cheaper than having to ship the materials.
hope to glass the transom tommorrow, reinforce a section of the rear where trim tabs use to be and finnish some grinding and if im lucky by tuesday i might be able to install the transom.
 
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Re: how do i get the top of a strator 16'2 bass boat 91

Re: how do i get the top of a strator 16'2 bass boat 91

transom is in....1708 drinks resins and is a pain to saturate. i ended up breaking out the roller to apply the resin as it likes lots. ive learnt that you have to reduce the kicker when your layering as the heat from other coats realy has a affect on the fresh resin. i hope that csm,cms,1708,csm,1708 is enoght layers for the inside wall of the transom. pb is fun to play with but you can let it get away and make a hell of a mess (had to go back and with the flapper disk to remove any high spots so the csm layed flat) hope to start on one side stringers tommorrow. (im kinda cheating i only removed one side of stringers as it was easier to use the other side for refrence after a lot of measuring it just looked easier to do it this way as the stringers change height 4 times so there should be no mistakes when i put the cap back on .........i hope)
 

rickryder

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Re: how do i get the top of a strator 16'2 bass boat 91

Re: how do i get the top of a strator 16'2 bass boat 91

Glenn did you grind the half of the glass shell from the stringer and wash it down with acetone? How will you bond the shell portion to the new stringer?
 
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Re: how do i get the top of a strator 16'2 bass boat 91

Re: how do i get the top of a strator 16'2 bass boat 91

yep firstly i found that the original roving wasnt soaked properly so i tore it off in sheets (kinda wonder what held the boat together) then i starter to grind 8 inchs either side of the stringers and was in the zone with the stereo on so i ground out the the whole side as it looked nicer) i havent washed it with acetone yet i will do that just before i start installing as i have a lot of test fitting first like i did with the transom. plan to cut the stringers then put in the cross bracing to the other stringers temp then pb them in and glass them with csm,1708,csm,1708 each layer will get 2" wider per layer at the bottom. im finding it easier to pre-cut all my glass using the wood as a template. the tops of the stringers will be 2 layers of csm put on when the sides are done as im realy not good at getting the csm to go over the corners.
 

rickryder

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Re: how do i get the top of a strator 16'2 bass boat 91

Re: how do i get the top of a strator 16'2 bass boat 91

So after you get things test fitted are you going to remove the old glass you were using as a guide?
 
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Re: how do i get the top of a strator 16'2 bass boat 91

Re: how do i get the top of a strator 16'2 bass boat 91

i guess ive realy confussed you about what im doing. the boat has a drain section that runs from the front to the back between the 2nd and 3rd stringer the only thing that crosses the gap is the floor and gas tank surport. so with the floor etc removed the boat can be seen as having a left and right side that are not glassed in any way together. i removed 24" of the rear part of the stringers and ground out all the glass then removed the left side stringers and ground all of that out. washed the rear with accatone and installed the transom. now i plan to install the left stringers which are a mirror image of the right side there are floor surports that are 4" wide that are screwed between the stringers (original) that were never glassed and thats how the moisture moved around rotting everything in the first place. im going to use temp pieces to surport the new stringers that will now be 1/4" lower to allow for extra glass on the underside of the floor and for the floor surports to be glassed once the new left stringers are in and completely covered they will no longer require a cemical bond so i will cover in plastic and tear out and grind the right stringers out then clean up and replace them. then its just a case of adding all the floor sections etc that are already measured so it should just be a jigsaw puzzel screwing in all the parts then glassing then to the hull on the outer edges. the reason im doing it this way is the top of the hull is not level and its a 2 person job to keep moving a piece of metal across the top of the boat while taking index points every few inchs to get the height correct this way i just use a level across 2 stringers to set the new stringers correctly (checked this before removing the originals). i will get some pics today. well time to wash the whole face mask and replace the filters for another day of fun in the sun
 
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Re: how do i get the top of a strator 16'2 bass boat 91

Re: how do i get the top of a strator 16'2 bass boat 91

kinda got lazy today and the weather didnt look to good so not much done but i did take a pic

grindout.jpg
 

westexasrepublic

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Re: how do i get the top of a strator 16'2 bass boat 91

Re: how do i get the top of a strator 16'2 bass boat 91

my resto of my 84 Stratos was documented and linked in my signature. might take a look and read from my mistakes. simliar hull and stringer layout.
 

rickryder

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Re: how do i get the top of a strator 16'2 bass boat 91

Re: how do i get the top of a strator 16'2 bass boat 91

OH I see now what your talkin about Glenn..... I was confused as hell there! Looks like ya got a plan!
 
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Re: how do i get the top of a strator 16'2 bass boat 91

Re: how do i get the top of a strator 16'2 bass boat 91

west yours was one of the first posts that i read when i joined the forum and it has influenced a lot of the decisions i have made on mine.
 
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