spring vapor lock?

[ShoalSurvivor]

SoCal boat, usually stored in garage, never winterized. Last year it was stored outside. took on water. still not "winterized", but never reached freezing conditions.

On first start, it turned a few times, but wouldn't fire. First start of the season is usually a little rough. I let it sit in case I flooded it. When I tried again, it was locked. Starter sounds like its working, but there's no movement in the cylinders. I can engage prop and turn slightly with force.

Never had hydrolock. is this what it feels like?

next step: pull plugs, check for fluid?

original engine SN: L332123 replaced with: 2004 Mercruiser 4.3L 225hp 4bbl Quicksilver repower SN: 90004747 (#807736R11 / 03252004)
Alpha 1 Gen II - Transom: 0L517680 Drive: 0L192679 1.62 R (1.81R scratched on top) original drive may have been SN: L40356

 

[Rick Stephens]

Yup, pull the plugs. See what ya got.

Should remove drive annually. The problem can also be a drive issue, so pulling the drive is next step.

 

[ShoalSurvivor]

Yup, pull the plugs. See what ya got.

Should remove drive annually. The problem can also be a drive issue, so pulling the drive is next step.

Two plugs were dripping with fuel. that was likely me flooding it last night.
Once I pulled the plugs, I could turn the prop with some force, and I could hear fluid pumping out of cylinders (plus some added water to bilge).

Seems like vapor lock to me.
Not sure if I should reconnect battery and crank it to expel water? or next steps. will search forum.

thank you!

(I replace the waterpump ever 2 years. I used to do annually but with minimal use, and with inspection, 2 years was working for me. drive gears all feel fine).

 

[Scott Danforth]

Two plugs were dripping with fuel. that was likely me flooding it last night.
Once I pulled the plugs, I could turn the prop with some force, and I could hear fluid pumping out of cylinders (plus some added water to bilge).

Seems like vapor lock to me.
Not sure if I should reconnect battery and crank it to expel water? or next steps. will search forum.

thank you!

(I replace the waterpump ever 2 years. I used to do annually but with minimal use, and with inspection, 2 years was working for me. drive gears all feel fine).

vapor lock is when the fuel boils in the pump from an overheat situation and the pump cant pump the fuel vapor. that phenomenon is ultra-rare in boats

having fluid being pumped out when you remove the plugs and fluid in the cylinder is hydro-locked. that is when water or oil gets into the combustion chambers where it shouldnt be.

this happens from a salt water boat where the manifolds and elbows rust out, or from a freeze event.

 

[RaceCarRich]

Vapor lock and hydrolock are not the same thing.

I would check the oil for signs of water and then if you are sure it’s water (not gas) coming out of cylinders I’d bump it over a few revolutions to clear out any liquid. If all seems okay, I’d probably put plugs in and give it a go.

 

[Rick Stephens]

I don't get the part where you can turn the prop with some force.... the prop should freewheel, or be locked up - not able to turn CCW when in forward gear. You cannot turn the motor over with the prop - the gearing is such that you have less power at the motor to turn it. So I don't know what you are referencing.

 

[ShoalSurvivor]

Excuse the wrong terminology.

I cranked it without plugs. sounded great! (start and cylinders sound clean).

I put the plugs back in - hard start, but it eventually turned over and ran, though rougher than usual. Sounded like it was trying to clear its lungs.

there was some black coloring in the drive outflow water, and I saw a very slight slick, so I shut it down. the water did not appear oil/fuel contaminated. Could that just be from the exhaust?

more info: It is used in salt water. I've replaced the manifolds and elbows twice -last time about 4-5 years ago. there is visible rust at the gasket lines, which I've never seen before, but seems to be related to being stored outside.

Should I run it longer?
should I remount the exhaust manifolds with new gaskets?
are there other components I should check?

Lastly, after the engine is shut down, there is occasionally a sound of a small motor coming from the engine. I think It must be the fuel pump, but was unable to capture video or isolate sound. there is a hissing sound with it. I looked carefully for excess fuel. none. I will inspect the carb before restarting. my instinct was fuel pump - but please direct me. thanks.

 

[Scott Danforth]

more info: It is used in salt water. I've replaced the manifolds and elbows twice -last time about 4-5 years ago. there is visible rust at the gasket lines, which I've never seen before, but seems to be related to being stored outside.

time to pull the manifolds and elbow to inspect. you should not see rust trails.

 

[Lou C]

Right if you see rust on the outside it could be leaking on the inside into a cyl via an open exhaust valve.That if left unattended over the winter can lock up an engine.

 

[ShoalSurvivor]

time to pull the manifolds and elbow to inspect. you should not see rust trails.

damn - that would mean that tonight's concert is not gonna happen. I was admittedly hoping someone would say - if it's running, let it run.

When I retrieved it from storage, the bilge was full of rainwater. the base of the engine has clear signs of have been sitting in water. If I start pulling the manifolds off, I might as well inspect, clean, service everything that may have been affected.

Are procedures for post flood maintenance listed anywhere?

 

[Lou C]

Did it get as high as the starter?
If so might want to replace.

 

[ShoalSurvivor]

Right if you see rust on the outside it could be leaking on the inside into a cyl via an open exhaust valve.That if left unattended over the winter can lock up an engine.

It runs.

Did it get as high as the starter?
If so might want to replace

I don't think so. there is visible rust on the bolts and attachments, but I don't see any corrosion on onside. the starter sounded good and was able to crank it over.

 

[Lou C]

Bad elbows & manifolds are the #1 cause of inboard engine failure in saltwater. If you have a Merc I’d consider upgrading to the better dry joint system. A bit more $$ but better design. Still have to replace regularly in salt but the risk of leaky gaskets letting water in is much less; basically can’t happen due to the design. Yes they can rust thru but definitely an improvement.

 

[ShoalSurvivor]

Bad elbows & manifolds are the #1 cause of inboard engine failure in saltwater. If you have a Merc I’d consider upgrading to the better dry joint system. A bit more $$ but better design. Still have to replace regularly in salt but the risk of leaky gaskets letting water in is much less; basically can’t happen due to the design. Yes they can rust thru but definitely an improvement.

I think this is from the exterior exposure, but I’ll order gaskets and plan to r/r.

 

[ShoalSurvivor]

UPDATE:
Couple hours later, she fired right up.

no oil in water, no water in oil.

If there was an active exhaust manifold leak, could it run normally? What would I expect to happen?

 

[Scott Danforth]

If there was an active exhaust manifold leak, could it run normally? What would I expect to happen?

it will run fine, however it will hydrolock on you shortly after shutting it off.

 

[ShoalSurvivor]

it will run fine, however it will hydrolock on you shortly after shutting it off.

Update: Engine fired up beautifully almost all day, after the initial rough start. One time, is felt "seized" again (the starter semi-engaged, but no cylinder movement). After a few attempts, it fired right up. * I now suspect this might be a starter issue.

When I retrieved it from storage, the bilge was full of rainwater, and it had sat covered outdoors for 7 months. There was a lot of moisture under the cover, and specifically in the engine compartment.

Not surprisingly, there is rust on the surface of the manifolds, on the mounting bolts, starter connections and mounting hardware, spark plugs, and on the upper engine surface (thermostat/water manifold).


I pulled the manifolds and elbow/risers - gaskets were all intact and apparently sealed. Manifolds are in good condition. There is some rust buildup in the risers, but nothing blocking, obstructed, or protruding. I can clean these up and reinstall.
Q: I used these grey/lead-type gaskets last time. they seem to have worked well. are those better than the fiberboard? what is the dry joint system?

Spark Plugs: will replace. what should I replace with?

Starter: its possible that the starter was partially underwater. that could be why it started fine, expect once (ie it rotated to bad contact spot)? should I remove and clean up the elec connections? replace the whole thing?

Engine surface: not sure what to do. remove components and wirebrush rust? paint? leave it? suggestions?

Other maintenance: I rebuilt the lower unit last year, and I suspect the water pump is fine. But if there was water in the bilge (or higher?) should I be concerned about the boots/gimble etc? (*Im hearing myself and expecting y'll to tell me to remove the lower unit to inspect). Other engine parts to inspect/service?

thank you!

 

[Scott Danforth]

One time, is felt "seized" again (the starter semi-engaged, but no cylinder movement). After a few attempts, it fired right up. * I now suspect this might be a starter issue.

you dont have a starter issue. you have a water in the cylinder issue from the manifold to elbow joint. what you are describing is hydrolock

separate the elbow from the manifold and inspect the joint. you may be able to clean up the mating surfaces, however you may need new manifolds and elbows

my guess is if you look in the exhaust ports of the heads you will find rust in at least one port

 

[Lou C]

That’s what I was going to say post up pix of your exhaust ports; the manifold ports don’t look like they were leaking but always good to look there. The rust you can wire brush treat with rust converter & paint with rustolium. I painted my Barr manifolds with them & 5 seasons later (damp climate all winter; boat sits on a saltwater mooring) they look really good. With cast iron components in a damp climate it’s a constant battle. If you store outside try to support & water proof the cover & jack up bow with plug out. Doing this 20 years out side storage in Long Island NY, blizzards, hurricanes etc never had a flooded bilge. Make sure bilge drain is not blocked with crud when you put the boat in storage.

 

[ShoalSurvivor]

you dont have a starter issue. you have a water in the cylinder issue from the manifold to elbow joint. what you are describing is hydrolock

separate the elbow from the manifold and inspect the joint. you may be able to clean up the mating surfaces, however you may need new manifolds and elbows

my guess is if you look in the exhaust ports of the heads you will find rust in at least one port

The exhaust ports look rust free. The elbows have some buildup inside, but not messing with the mating surfaces.