OldMercsRule said:
rolmops said:
Merc, I would love for our army to win and get out of that sand box. The propaganda machine is one of the tools that is used to make this possible. In every war in every country in the world,this technique has been used in order to keep up the morale on the home front.The entire concept of embedding reporters into army units is an outgrowth of this technique.
I deeply love this country and the very fact that I exist today is because American soldiers liberated my father from a concentration camp.Disagreeing with the current direction of our nation does not mean that I do not love it,it means that I believe that we should do things in a different way.
[colour=blue]OK Rolmops, I accept that. Did you read all three articles? The sources were varied. What would it take to overcome your cynicism? Why are you so invested in defeat? Don't you think a possitive outcome for Iraq and you and I and the world is possible? I for one sure hope so! But I guess you think me a fool for looking at the positive possibilities, and accepting news contrary to the dark stuff from Dems Libs and the MSM? Respectfully JR[/colour]
Merc,I am not invested in defeat.There is no winning or loosing in a middle eastern war.
[colour=blue]These two statements seem to be at odds: Rolmops! Maybe you can analyse them and show me where I'm missing something here. I may only have one brain cell but I do recognize the inherant conflict in these two back to back sentences.[/colour]
We have stumbled into a society with completely different values and we naively thought that we could make them like us.They are not interested in being like us!Democracy is an alien concept thought up by non believers.The uneducated masses have no desire to change their lot,they were taught that this is their predestined fate in this world and they believe it.
Anything western reminds them of the colonial period and they do not want anybody telling them how to run their life,unless that person is a fellow Arab and moslem.
The best we can hope for is creating an artificial situation which will fall apart the day after we leave.
[colour=blue]Ok if you are correct in your very dark view here winning is actually very easy: eliminate the humans from that piece of realestate and own it. If someone wants to deal with us from that point deal with them in no uncertian terms as well. I do fear that Dems Libs and people with a very dark view as you have shared here may force this result.[/colour]
I spent 25 years in the middle east,farming, soldiering and studying.I learned arabic and trained kurdish troops in the 80s.
My opinions are based on personal experience and not on political ideas.
[colour=blue]Agreed, and your experience is very impresive to me. I have read great scholars that have studied the Middle East and are nearly universally respected that do not share your dark view, but some on them have stated a down side scenario as you seem invested in here.[/colour]
Your opinion that democrats want to loose this war is ludicrous.Nobody wants his own country to loose.
[colour=blue]You are correct that I have an opinion based upon a lifes' long experience and observation. I could go on and on to support my opinion which is not "ludicrous" in any way shape or form. Only some Democrats want to loose and politically profit from our fall as T Kenedy, J Kerry and others have done very sucessfully in the recent past. We have Soviet spy documents that show that some Democrats have been working against our great Country since just after the Bolshivek Revolution, and the entire party protected and defended them. I think you are wrong here Rolmops, but it is just a well informed opinion I have here.[/colour]
What does irk democrats is the untold billions of dollars that go to a questionable war instead of providing health care,education and a living wage for Americans.
[colour=blue]Now you are getting into an area where I have some expertise. If we just turned the other cheek and allowed our enemies to bomb our buildings and kill our citizens and make as much of the population dependent on the Left's religion of big government as possible the outcome is already very well known. Please examine and ponder the terrible results of the "Great Society". That's prima facia evidence of absolute failure: Rolmops; and an obvious failure to those who possess the ability to consider facts and history to evaluate human nature in light of the policies you and the looney Left propose.[/colour]
For Pete's sake,this administration did not even bother to take proper care of the wounded soldiers coming back from the war.These soldiers were left unguided in a bureaucratic swamp and in dirty hospitals.They betrayed the very people who put their lives on the line for America.Do you think that these wounded veterans will ever trust this administration again?
[colour=blue]Yes, Rolmops I do. Do you think the troops want a President Jimmy Carter or a President W. Clinton in charge? Most rational people with an understanding of large government structure are aware of problems from the very nature of the beast. This did not happen over the last seven years, it has always happened. My father was a WW2 Vet who lost his hearing when the German 88s were pounding him in France. I have helped him for years and I regularly took him to the VA here in Gods' Country. Government does not do things very well Rolmops please understand that minor little point here.[/colour]