Some Good News, (WbW may not accept this one), sorry Willy

Haut Medoc

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Jun 29, 2004
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Re: Some Good News, (WbW may not accept this one), sorry Willy

OK, I'm gonna take that bait rolmops . . .


FISH ON!!!!!!d:)
 

QC

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Joined
Mar 22, 2005
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22,783
Re: Some Good News, (WbW may not accept this one), sorry Willy

Cut me a little slack Haut Mopec. It was such nice presentation, and all of the pretty colors, I just couldn't resist . . .
 

rolmops

Vice Admiral
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Feb 24, 2002
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Re: Some Good News, (WbW may not accept this one), sorry Willy

QC said:
OK, I'm gonna take that bait rolmops . . .

We have a desire (need) for them to change.

I don't believe Democrats actually want to lose anything either, but I also don't believe that you or them see any aggressive tactics to change the unacceptable status quo in the Middle East as acceptable. It is live and let live even when we are at risk, which we were and still are from a variety of sources. I would support this war even if the only thing it accomplished was doing something instead of nothing.

Do you really, honestly, believe that this money would go to anything else if we were not at war regardless of the Administration? Are you suggesting that some super duper, Pres-o-the-compassionate, would sit down and say "we would've had a war, but we aren't 'cause I am nice, and I am smart, so let's give that unspent money to people who earn less than $17.25 an hour as a supplement to make up the difference. And while we're at it, whatever is left, let's build and staff a few free hospitals."? Non-sequiturs, not related, never gonna happen . . .

Do you believe "this Administration" knowingly allowed the VA stuff?

Good questions,that deserve an honest answer.
I do believe that the rank and file democrats have a desire to spend money on education,health care and a living wage. Many democratic politicians will support these ideas and then like any other politician they will turn around and do whatever is expedient for themselves.
Do I believe that this administration knowingly allowed this VA stuff? No I don't believe that. They should have made it their business to know what is going on.Commanders should have visited their recovering soldiers and listened to them.The commander in chief should have visited his wounded soldiers and listened to them.Then he would have known what is going on.
 

QC

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Re: Some Good News, (WbW may not accept this one), sorry Willy

Thanks for the response. I differ with you on the spending that you recommend. I support vouchers and competition for education. A lack of health-care insurance may break some people, but the care is always available. Anybody who wants to work hard in this country can make a decent living. So, no I would not want to tax or spend for those and it is one of the reasons that I vote Republican.

I haven't searched, but I bet that the CIC has visited wounded soldiers numerous times, I would bet that other Commanders have too. It is an embarrassment, and unacceptable, and that's why it will be fixed.
 

OldMercsRule

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3,340
Re: Some Good News, (WbW may not accept this one), sorry Willy

rolmops said:
OldMercsRule said:
rolmops said:
Merc, I would love for our army to win and get out of that sand box. The propaganda machine is one of the tools that is used to make this possible. In every war in every country in the world,this technique has been used in order to keep up the morale on the home front.The entire concept of embedding reporters into army units is an outgrowth of this technique.
I deeply love this country and the very fact that I exist today is because American soldiers liberated my father from a concentration camp.Disagreeing with the current direction of our nation does not mean that I do not love it,it means that I believe that we should do things in a different way.

[colour=blue]OK Rolmops, I accept that. Did you read all three articles? The sources were varied. What would it take to overcome your cynicism? Why are you so invested in defeat? Don't you think a possitive outcome for Iraq and you and I and the world is possible? I for one sure hope so! But I guess you think me a fool for looking at the positive possibilities, and accepting news contrary to the dark stuff from Dems Libs and the MSM? Respectfully JR[/colour]

Merc,I am not invested in defeat.There is no winning or loosing in a middle eastern war.

[colour=blue]These two statements seem to be at odds: Rolmops! Maybe you can analyse them and show me where I'm missing something here. I may only have one brain cell but I do recognize the inherant conflict in these two back to back sentences.[/colour]

We have stumbled into a society with completely different values and we naively thought that we could make them like us.They are not interested in being like us!Democracy is an alien concept thought up by non believers.The uneducated masses have no desire to change their lot,they were taught that this is their predestined fate in this world and they believe it.
Anything western reminds them of the colonial period and they do not want anybody telling them how to run their life,unless that person is a fellow Arab and moslem.
The best we can hope for is creating an artificial situation which will fall apart the day after we leave.

[colour=blue]Ok if you are correct in your very dark view here winning is actually very easy: eliminate the humans from that piece of realestate and own it. If someone wants to deal with us from that point deal with them in no uncertian terms as well. I do fear that Dems Libs and people with a very dark view as you have shared here may force this result.[/colour]

I spent 25 years in the middle east,farming, soldiering and studying.I learned arabic and trained kurdish troops in the 80s.
My opinions are based on personal experience and not on political ideas.

[colour=blue]Agreed, and your experience is very impresive to me. I have read great scholars that have studied the Middle East and are nearly universally respected that do not share your dark view, but some on them have stated a down side scenario as you seem invested in here.[/colour]

Your opinion that democrats want to loose this war is ludicrous.Nobody wants his own country to loose.

[colour=blue]You are correct that I have an opinion based upon a lifes' long experience and observation. I could go on and on to support my opinion which is not "ludicrous" in any way shape or form. Only some Democrats want to loose and politically profit from our fall as T Kenedy, J Kerry and others have done very sucessfully in the recent past. We have Soviet spy documents that show that some Democrats have been working against our great Country since just after the Bolshivek Revolution, and the entire party protected and defended them. I think you are wrong here Rolmops, but it is just a well informed opinion I have here.[/colour]

What does irk democrats is the untold billions of dollars that go to a questionable war instead of providing health care,education and a living wage for Americans.

[colour=blue]Now you are getting into an area where I have some expertise. If we just turned the other cheek and allowed our enemies to bomb our buildings and kill our citizens and make as much of the population dependent on the Left's religion of big government as possible the outcome is already very well known. Please examine and ponder the terrible results of the "Great Society". That's prima facia evidence of absolute failure: Rolmops; and an obvious failure to those who possess the ability to consider facts and history to evaluate human nature in light of the policies you and the looney Left propose.[/colour]

For Pete's sake,this administration did not even bother to take proper care of the wounded soldiers coming back from the war.These soldiers were left unguided in a bureaucratic swamp and in dirty hospitals.They betrayed the very people who put their lives on the line for America.Do you think that these wounded veterans will ever trust this administration again?

[colour=blue]Yes, Rolmops I do. Do you think the troops want a President Jimmy Carter or a President W. Clinton in charge? Most rational people with an understanding of large government structure are aware of problems from the very nature of the beast. This did not happen over the last seven years, it has always happened. My father was a WW2 Vet who lost his hearing when the German 88s were pounding him in France. I have helped him for years and I regularly took him to the VA here in Gods' Country. Government does not do things very well Rolmops please understand that minor little point here.[/colour]

[colour=blue]I'm impressed with your personal experience, but underwelmed with your very dark and defeatist attitude. All my family and most successfull Americans I have met and been impressed by have positve "can do" attitudes.
That is why we are the greatest country on Earth. There is very little the American people can't do if they want to. Those who have a "woe is me" attitude have always been in America as well, and we have prospered in spite of them. I believe this will continue. "When the going gets tough the tough get going!" Sorry to be so niavely positive, (I'm sure some will see this as arrogance), so be it. Respectfully JR[/colour]
 

Fly Rod

Commander
Joined
Oct 31, 2002
Messages
2,622
Re: Some Good News, (WbW may not accept this one), sorry Willy

WillyBWright said:
I said I hoped it worked. But is it the calm before the storm? It was well publicized. They're probably just falling back and regrouping. One thing has impressed me though. I hear Iraqi personnel outnumber American personnel in a lot of the operations.
That's not a good sign. :(

That's a GREAT sign! :D

This is one time that I may agree with U Willy. Could be "The Calm Before The Storm!!!" 8)

They will sit back and wait for a deadline for our troops to be out!!!
 
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