Sob Story

[Jim Graham]

Re: Sob Story

Yes I am planing on fixing the boat for sure. I have too much investesd to stop now. I am off today and will trouble shoot and get back to the fourm later today.
Thanks Slim Jim

 

[Jim Graham]

Re: Sob Story

Well I just went out and pulled all the plugs. 1 was wet. #6
I don't know why
I didn't think of it before but I took an old Radiator cap, Installed a rubber valve stem, pluged the overflow and put 20lbs pressure to the closed system. Let her set a few minutes and turned it over and a geyser came out of #6 cly. I think it might be the block! I wonder if they ever get a run of bad castings? I be taking her apart again and I will keep everyone posted. Thankas again for all the help you have provided. Slim Jim.

 

[mcleaves]

Re: Sob Story

Well I was thinking bad casting but not necessarily the block! What about head gaskets? Still wondering which cyls beside #6. Are they adjacent cyls?

M

 

[Don S]

Re: Sob Story

Did you try turning the engine over BEFORE you pressureized the cooling system? #6 may have been full of water even before you did the pressure test. Best thing to do, is a leakdown test on the bad cylinder with the cap off the heat exchanger.

 

[Jim Graham]

Re: Sob Story

Yes I turned the engine over before I pressurized it. No water came out anywhear. I put pressure to the heat exchanger and water came out of #6 after only about a munute. Then after about 5 minutes I turned it over again and water came out of #2 #4 #6 #8. Everything on the Right bank. I'm going to pull the manifold first and pressurise it off the engine and go from there. I will do a cyl. leakdown test also Don.
Thanks Slim

 

[Don S]

Re: Sob Story

Are your manifolds part of the closed cooling system?

 

[Bondo]

Re: Sob Story

merc with a MR Drive.

Just a side note about your Overheating Issue,.......

It's entirely possible that the smaller impeller used in the MRs,+ Alpha 1s is just Too Small,.....

Alpha, Gen.IIs,+ the Bravos use a Larger Impeller I believe......

 

[JustJason]

Re: Sob Story

good point bondo.... an engine mounted seawater pump for the closed cooling and the drive pump for the manifolds may be the way to go. One of my customers uses this setup on a merc 350/260 with no problems.

 

[Jim Graham]

Re: Sob Story

Yes my manifolds are part of my closed cooling system or as merc. calls it fresh water cooling. I have the belt driven Brovo pump and the one in the outdrive is capped off at the outdrive bellhousing area right at the transom. Slim

 

[Jim Graham]

Re: Sob Story

When I had the outdrive off I wondered why a pump was in there if it wasn't being used. It had a burnt up impeller and a cooked tube and hose. You might just be on to something. I didn't realize you could use both pumps. Slim

 

[Don S]

Re: Sob Story

You aren't supposed to use both pumps at the same time. When using the full closed cooling system like you have, you should just use the engine pump and you are supposed to just cut the water hose between the bellhousing and gimbal housing, NOT cap it. You should also have a thu hull fitting where the water is picked up.

But I really think first, we need to find your water intrusion problem.
Since you have a full cooling system, I would assume you have antifreeze in the cooling system. If this is the case, if you had a head gasket, cracked head or defective manifolds, you would have ANTIFREEZE in your cylinders. But you have been saying water! That leaves only a couple of places, the risers or the riser/manifold gasket.

 

[JustJason]

Re: Sob Story

just curious Don.

Why not use both?
I have quite a few boats up here that came with stock freshwater cooling, and have been converted to closed cooling for the block only, and the raw water pump in the drive is set up just to cool the manifolds.

besides the redundency, because an engine mounted pump will move enough water, is there an issue in using both besides the cost?

 

[Don S]

Re: Sob Story

Sounds more like a Rube Goldberg setup to me. But it may work, have no idea. But it's not necessary to have 2 pumps with the engine driven pump. The drive pump should remain working because it flows water thru the top of the drive to cool the upper drive. That is why you don't cap the hose, just cut it and leave it open.

 

[Bondo]

Re: Sob Story

Sounds more like a Rube Goldberg setup to me.

Ayuh,......... My Hero..............

I haven't had the opportunity Yet,......

But when I Do,......
I'm Sure I'll be putting that already Pumped,+ about to be Wasted water to use cooling Something,.. Somewhere..........

 

[Jim Graham]

Re: Sob Story

Yes when I have start yp problems and it fires at the wrong time when I let off the key I'm getting bay water.
When I pressurised I got Dex Cool out of #6. When I tried a leakdown test no matter what I did I would hear air either at the carb. or at the exhaust. I tried to turn it a little but I could not get it to seal. Possibly the guides are sticking slightly. I did find a out of surface between the inner wall of the risor and the outer wall this time when I pulled it of but by the gasket it looked to be sealing by the inprint.I'm ready to pull it back out and maybe send it to Crusader to check the block. Slim

 

[JustJason]

Re: Sob Story

i had a bugger 2 years ago of water in 1 of the cyls. It was on a 454. I suspected a bad headgasket but the leakdown showed nothing... both hot and cold. after along story it turned out that the guy bought the boat with a "reman" engine. whoever "remaned" it got a new/used shortblock and took the old heads and cut them to short and the intake wasn't sealing correctly. to much angle. ahhh life's little games....

 

[Don S]

Re: Sob Story

Isolate the manifolds from the block (Plug off the hoses) and pressurize the cooling system again and see if you still get antifreeze in #6.
If not, then you have a manifold problems, if you still do get antifreeze, you have an engine problem.
For your leakdown test, Try loosening the rockers completely and trying to pressureize.
I doubt it would be the valve guides causing the problem, maybe a warped (tuleped) valve or something.

 

[Jim Graham]

Re: Sob Story

Well I did what you reccommended Don. I plugged off the hoses & pressurized the system. To my suroprise no antifreeze came from #6, or any other cylinder. I did the test 3 times to be sure. Never in my wildest dreams did I think that it was not the engine. Thank you to all at I-boats & a speacial thanks to Don S. & Capt. Jason. So after 1 year, 6 starters, 3 flywheel ring gears, 3 sets of head gaskets & a ton of my labor, this sob story is finally coming to an end. Now I will just have to deal with Siera. I will keep you posted when I am back on the water. Thanks again everyone for hanging in there with me.
Many Thanks,
Capt. Slim Jim

 

[mcleaves]

Re: Sob Story

Didn't I suggest manifolds a while back

Nobody ever listens to me

I'll use bigger words next time!

Seriously, glad to hear you are tracking it down.

For the record I have a nice long history with Don helping me troubleshoot a bogging problem at around 3000 RPM. After changing the timing belt and setting it a dozen times, playing with two distributors, converting to electronic ignition, back to points, back to electronic, and a dozen other things, I FINALLY took dons advice and checked EVERY fuel line hose clamp in the system. the one clamp I never touched in the life of the boat was sucking air (at the tank).


M

 

[Maclin]

Re: Sob Story

I hope this is not too early, but..... Way to go guys! I have been following this and I am impressed with how quickly you got to the bottom of it and how GREAT the advice here is. I am glad it was not the new engine. I also know how hard it is to know land based engines and systems and come into the marine world and have to start all over almost. You did a good job of putting away the ego and listening and testing, very cool and valuable thread.