So tired of attacks against our Police!!

[JasonJ]

Re: So tired of attacks against our Police!!

Part of the problem with this incident is that the man was trying to kill his 17 year old stepdaughter. He was using his baby as a sheild, and he was firing on law enforcment. Our job is to protect the lives of the innocent as well as ours. He chose to try to kill his step daughter, he chose to use his baby as a shield, and he chose to fire on law enforcment. The choice he left the law enforcment was to let him continue to fire on them, let him continue to try to kill the stepdaughter, or do what they are trained to do: Stop him. <br /><br />I think it is horrifying that the child died, but make no mistake, that man killed his child by his decision making. The cops could have pulled back, but then the 17 year old would have been killed. This man had little to lose once he opened fire, because he knew it was over for him. It was a matter of ending it to preserve as much life as possible. <br /><br />There was not a mistake made here, it was the selection of an option from a bad set of options. The problem with our society is the hollywoodization of our mindset. According to hollywood, they would have kept him under control until a sniper can "take the shot". In the real world, there is no time. Like Deputy Dawg said, it is started and over in minutes, and who is to say there would have ever been an optimal position for a sniper to take anyway? In hollywood, there is always a convenient two story building with a flat roof, no obstruction, nothing to get in the way. In the real world there is cars, trees, bystanders, you name it. Once again law enforcment is vilified no matter what (until these do-gooders need them of course). Its too bad, because all law enforcment wants is to help.

 

[demsvmejm]

Re: So tired of attacks against our Police!!

Why couldn't the police have shot out his legs, and he probably would have dropped the baby and perhaps the gun as he fell? The answer lies in DD's reply. The length of time is so short instinct kicks in.<br />I have a low level of respect for the judicial system form the view point of traffice citations and the cop always winning, at least around here.<br /><br />However, I hold every police officer in high regard, until they prove to be a louse. Just as DD stated about being out on the dark highway. We all have said, "Man I wish I were a cop right about now," when some idiot does something wrong on the road. But when that traffice stop is on a dark deserted stretch of road, miles from the nearest farm house, or that domestic violence involving a weapon call goes out, who really would want to be a police officer. This is why I have gotten a few funny looks from LEO's when I thatnk them on the street for the job they do. I sure as he** wouldn't want the job, but I am glad they do. Some people become LEO's because of the power trip, and I know a few, I disrespect them everytime they are around me. But that is only through experience with these bad apples. Otherwise, cut them some slack. They are out there protecting YOU whether you realize it or not. That drunk they arrested tonight, save your teenage child from an DUI-related accident. That abusive spouse they arrested saved your family the grief of losing a good friend and seeing children lose their parents, or worse. So even if the police aren't interacting with you, you are still being protected. You cna go to that all night liquor store for more beer when your poker game runs long, without fear of being mugged.<br /><br />As for this tragic situation, it is unfortunate that the child had to die, but as has been said, it was the best option out of a set of bad options. One innocent life, or the life of the 17yo step-daughter, a police officer, and a bystander? Hmmmm....maybe your life, or your kid's as that bystander? I question the actions of my local law enforment, and I hold them accountable. But I do so with compassion, and respect for their willingness to risk their lives to protect my family.<br /><br />As for that dark desolate traffice stop, I always turn on my dome light, and wait for the officer to approach. Only after they are at my window do I lower my hands again from the steering wheel. And to all who are wondering, the last time I was stopped for anything more serious than a light out was over 5 years ago.<br /><br />Thank you to bubbakat, DeputyDawg, Get Reel(?) and rodge. Even though you aren't in my neck of the woods, you all make our societies safer by doing your thankless jobs. I salute you, thank you.

 

[Nos4r2]

Re: So tired of attacks against our Police!!

Not sure I'm qualified to comment here but when it boils down to it if someone's firing a gun at me with the intention of killing me then I'll be damned if I wouldn't fire back if I had a gun-whoever the gunman was and whatever/whoever they were carrying. Yeah I'd feel bad about it(understatement) afterwards but hey, I'd be alive to tell the tale-and the lowlife wouldn't still be out there to kill others. <br /><br />Make no mistake-if someone's twisted enough to fire on the police with their own child in their arms while trying to kill somene else then it aint gonna be an isolated incident.Does anyone REALLY think if he'd been shot in the legs that he woulda stopped firing considering what he was holding and who he was trying to kill?!<br /><br />As for TS's comments, I'm kinda with him on this but I don't think they were appropriate for this discussion. People will always make jokes about tragic situations. Some of the ones flying around here after the bombs last week are pretty horrendous-as were the ones after 9/11. It doesn't make the act any less horrific-but it helps the sanity to make light of it sometimes. I (probably mis)quote Ronald Reagan on that one- "Communism is now illegal- tell the boys we start bombing at dawn".

 

[demsvmejm]

Re: So tired of attacks against our Police!!

Originally posted by Nos4r2:<br /> <br />Does anyone REALLY think if he'd been shot in the legs that he woulda stopped firing considering what he was holding and who he was trying to kill?!<br /><br />

I am sorry I did not elaborate enough not to be misunderstood. The hypothetical situation I was thinking about was if he was taken down by shooting out his legs then there was a chance he would be disarmed, or at least drop the hostage(his babdy). At that point the police would have had a different situation to react to. Either a disarmed man, or at least not child in the immediate line of fire. I DO NOT want to seem like I was condemning the police. I can only imagine what they we feeling at that moment. And I am sure the officers who fired reacted EXACTLY as they were conditioned and trained to do. So I would never try to second guess them, espescially given what little facts I know about this case. <br /><br />I do hold law enforecment officers in high regard(with a select few) and am thankful that they choose to do that job. I feel for the officers in this case, they will be second guessing themselves because of this tragic outcome. And they will be under a microscope with little sympathy and constant scrutiny, sometimes without merit because of it. A tragedy no doubt, for the family who lost the child, the mother who has to deal with the violence against her daughter(the slimebag's step-daughter), the community, and the police officers and their families. As many of you pointed out, police officers are human too. With the same respect for human life that we all had drilled into us from birth.

 

[Kenneth Brown]

Re: So tired of attacks against our Police!!

Thanks to DD for an excellant reply. I've worn the badge for 8 years. So far I've never fired a shot. I hope and pray I never do.<br /><br />David Moore- We've always respectfully disagreed on just about everything. I view other cops (and myself) the same way you do. Thank you for your support.<br /><br />TS- !@#$%^^&& ( I get one a month and your it )

 

[technostingray]

Re: So tired of attacks against our Police!!

TS- !@#$%^^&& ( I get one a month and your it ) [/QB][/quote]<br />Congratulations on your superior choice of words. <br />Please define "one" and "it". <br />This might be (mis)constured as a threat. If you are a peace officer you might think twice about what you say. You know, being under a microscope and all. <br />How can you tell when a lawyer is lieing? ans: his lips are moving.

 

[Kenneth Brown]

Re: So tired of attacks against our Police!!

The "one" is the ":!@#$%". A while back we (as in the board members) decided since this is a family site and all that we should all be reasonable and follow the rules. On carttons (you know, the ones kids watch) when someone gets hurt either a horn blows or they put up @#$$%^% to express a pain or dislike. A majority of us here felt that that would be an acceptable response, if used very sparingly. I am certain that this will die off since the powers to be never agreed with us but you got to see it so its ok with me. The "it" also comes from the childrens area, as in the game "Tag, your it!". See here on this family site sometimes we have children posting as adults, and I wanted to make sure that they could understand what I was saying. <br /><br /> I would like to thank you on my congratulations of fine choice of words, if only you really knew what I was saying. I am sure that you can think vividly.

 

[technostingray]

Re: So tired of attacks against our Police!!

Originally posted by Kenneth Brown:<br /> The "one" is the ":!@#$%". A while back we (as in the board members) decided since this is a family site and all that we should all be reasonable and follow the rules. <br /> Legal clarifacation here: I take this to mean you are a board member and I am not. <br /> On carttons (you know, the ones kids watch) when someone gets hurt either a horn blows or they put up @#$$%^% to express a pain or dislike.<br /> So this then is vieled profanity, not an encrypted message? <br />A majority of us here felt that that would be an acceptable response, if used very sparingly. as opposed the minority who are always crying and complaining when they get a Rodney <br /> What do you mean "got"? You fine upstanding individual Er, I mean *** **** ********* ********** <br /><br />The "it" also comes from the childrens area, as in the game "Tag, your it!". <br /> Which childrens area are you speaking of? The ones where your kids play or the one where you play? <br />See here on this family site sometimes we have children posting as adults, and I wanted to make sure that they could understand what I was saying. I take it then you disapprove clean language and fair play. <br /> I would like to thank you on my congratulations of fine choice of words, So nice to know you can tell a compliment from an insult. <br />if only you really knew what I was saying. I am sure that you can think vividly. <br />

Not only vividly but clearly. Of course I take time to consider what I say.

 

[technostingray]

Re: So tired of attacks against our Police!!

Oh, I forgot. tag your it.

 

[Kenneth Brown]

Re: So tired of attacks against our Police!!

I don't believe you were a board member at the time of discussoin Sir, being you have a June 2005 join date. I believe I said a while back. This does not say when but I would believe it to be more than a month and a half ago.<br /><br />I am glad that I can tell an insult from a compliment also. Once again, thanks for the compliment.<br /><br />Sure I believe in clean laungauge and fair play. I myself decided to be fair with you, thats why I stepped down here to this level.<br /><br />Your turn friend.

 

[Skinnywater]

Re: So tired of attacks against our Police!!

I myself decided to be fair with you, thats why I stepped down here to this level.

Ken sincerely, quit, stop, don't do it! <br />Remember my comment a month or so ago about taking all this personally? I know it's dang hard but it's a requiremnt on the www.<br />TS is doing a fine job making his case without you.

 

[Kenneth Brown]

Re: So tired of attacks against our Police!!

You got it Skinny, I reckon its all said and done. I didn't take it personally, but I think he does.

 

[technostingray]

Re: So tired of attacks against our Police!!

Originally posted by Kenneth Brown:<br /> <br /><br />I am glad that I can tell an insult from a compliment also. Once again, thanks for the compliment.<br /><br />Your turn friend.

With friends like you, who needs enemies. I just hope that when you get home your mother runs out from under the porch and bites you.<br />I jes shuffle on back to the woodpile now and pass on the nex' turn. Den ya'll won't have to stoop again. Thanks fo' all de he'p.

 

[technostingray]

Re: So tired of attacks against our Police!!

Originally posted by Kenneth Brown:<br /> You got it Skinny, I reckon its all said and done. I didn't take it personally, but I think he does.

Oh, it was just a joke. Gee, I thought you made it clear that I was a partriotic American I mean low down ********* ********* <br /> To What case are your referring. Equal treatment under the law, Free Speech, The right to beat people senseless, <br />???????????????????

 

[SS MAYFLOAT]

Re: So tired of attacks against our Police!!

I agree with waterone about being tired of our police getting the raw deal. It looks like our own members that are in law enforcement gets trampled right here in Dockside.<br /><br />My thoughts is that anyone who runs from the law becomes fair game!<br /><br />As for the incident with the child, the idiot holding the child created the circumstance. Keep in mind that more innocent people die by irresponsible licensed adults in their cars than by any other means. <br /><br />I wish to tip my hat to those that protect and serve our communities.

 

[JasonJ]

Re: So tired of attacks against our Police!!

I am still new to the law enforcment biz, but the one thing I will tell you is that we are trained that if we have to use a firearm, it is not used to deliberately wound, it is used to kill. The term is "to stop", but we all know what the end result can be from being shot. If the person that is being fired on does not die, is merely stopped, that is a blessing. If he does die, it is very unfortunate, but like I said before, he made the choices that led to his situation.

 

[sue5878]

Re: So tired of attacks against our Police!!

David l Moore No ? needed Proud of my job, available on my profile. difference between West Australia and America/Uk is that the public generally appear to appreciate LEO's, or probably more to the point, through experience/knowledge are more vocal in their support.<br /><br />General comment; LEO's know that a wound may not stop some people, be it drugs or other reasons (remember Rasputin). I just pray that the good LEO's live to retire and enjoy normal life.<br /><br />GR

 

[tommays]

Re: So tired of attacks against our Police!!

well it seems like police are haveing the same problem as doctors anything other than a perfect outcome means they have done something worng<br /><br />it does not seam to matter if a perfect outcome was possable<br /><br />here on long island if they shoot somebody they have done something worng <br /><br />if they use a tasar they have done something worng<br /><br />if they use plain old force and billy clubs they have done something worng<br /><br />they dont seem to be able to arrest dangerous people who will fight till they cant with out somebody second guesing them<br /><br />tommays

 

[NYMINUTE]

Re: So tired of attacks against our Police!!

Our police in this country are the biggest target of the oppressed, and the f'in media. I see a shortage of law enforcement people in the future, just like nurses....underpaid, subjected to unreasonable standards, and long thankless hours. They have my total support, and empathy.

 

[CntrySngr]

Re: So tired of attacks against our Police!!

Originally posted by waterone1:<br /> Why is it that the minorities always side with the criminal and not the police. I am so sick and tired of hearing how bad the police treat the minorities....if they would stop committing crimes, the problem would go away.

I am not racist, but I did have to laugh at an interview I saw on Fox News (they have the video on their website actually). In it the reporter was questioning a gentleman that was a part of a minority group in LA. He made a comment that I found kind of funny:<br /><br />"You don't see cops going in to white neighborhoods and killing like they do in the minority neighborhoods"...<br /><br />My first thought was: DUH! You don't have white men holding 19 month old babies in front of them as protection while they are firing at the police!<br /><br />I just can't understand why our country has gotten to be such a trash pit! We would be so much better off if we could all just get along with one another! I know it will never happen, but I wish it could!!<br /><br />I hate to say it, but in the days following 9/11 this country stood side by side with one another...is it going to take another wakeup call to reunite is once again? Its pathetic...<br /><br />Just out of curiosity, wasn't the father an illegal alien? (I thought I read that but can't find it).