So tired of attacks against our Police!!

waterone1@aol.com

Lieutenant Junior Grade
Joined
Oct 10, 2004
Messages
1,235
I might be preaching to the choir...or not. Have you seen the latest attack against our police? Of course this one is about the LA police who opened fire on an armed man who was shooting at police while holding his baby. I am sorry that a baby got killed, but it is the fathers fault, not the police. Simple rule, that most of us know, if you resist arrest or fire upon the police....you will be killed ! Too bad that the criminal was holding a baby, that was his fault, not anyone elses. Why is it that the minorities always side with the criminal and not the police. I am so sick and tired of hearing how bad the police treat the minorities....if they would stop committing crimes, the problem would go away. In this case, I am sorry that a baby got killed but what would have been the alternative, one or more officers of the law shot and killed by a fugative, just because he was holding a baby.....sorry, he did it, not the officers.
 

gspig

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jul 7, 2004
Messages
409
Re: So tired of attacks against our Police!!

Don't forget: If the father had killed the baby it would also have been the polices' fault. A no win situation.
 
Joined
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4,666
Re: So tired of attacks against our Police!!

They knew the job was dangerous when they took it. No ifs and or buts about it. There is always more to these things than what you read on Iboats.
 

fire831

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Aug 26, 2002
Messages
373
Re: So tired of attacks against our Police!!

I agree with waterone1 100%. Same with gspig. I was in law enforcement for 10 years and always heard the same comments as technostupeedo makes. Yes I agree I don't know the whole story and neither was I there. But as far as i'm concerned if you start shooting at a officer of the law, you better plan on getting some rounds sent back. It is sad that the child was killed in this case, but it's even more sad that the guy was using this child as a shield. My thoughts and prayers are out to the family that lost the child and also the officers involved. Lets not forget, a police officer is a human being also. They eat,sleep,bleed,and have feelings just like the rest of us.
 

bigbad4cyl

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Dec 28, 2004
Messages
386
Re: So tired of attacks against our Police!!

someone using a baby as a shield........wow i diddnt know saddam escaped
 
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Re: So tired of attacks against our Police!!

Originally posted by rodge:<br /> I was in law enforcement for 10 years .
One can only wonder why you are no longer involved and understand why you take the position you do. That baby should have known better than to be a shield for a mad man....
 

bubbakat

Captain
Joined
Oct 29, 2002
Messages
3,110
Re: So tired of attacks against our Police!!

technostupeedo Have you ever walked in a law officers shoes when a situation like this takes place,<br />I doubt if you have and if you had the courage,<br /><br />I am going through a bad homicide that occurred a couple days ago and can't quit seeing it over and over in my mind. If your comments show how you feel about law officer the I would be suspicious of your activities.<br /><br />this comment makes about as much sense as a cow trying to drive a VW.<br />
That baby should have known better than to be a shield for a mad man....
 
Joined
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Messages
4,666
Re: So tired of attacks against our Police!!

Originally posted by bubbakat:<br /> technostupeedo Have you ever walked in a law officers shoes when a situation like this takes place,<br />I doubt if you have and if you had the courage,<br /><br />I am going through a bad homicide that occurred a couple days ago and can't quit seeing it over and over in my mind. If your comments show how you feel about law officer the I would be suspicious of your activities.<br /><br />this comment makes about as much sense as a cow trying to drive a VW.<br />
That baby should have known better than to be a shield for a mad man....
 
Joined
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Re: So tired of attacks against our Police!!

Originally posted by bubbakat:<br /> technostupeedo Have you ever walked in a law officers shoes when a situation like this takes place,<br />I doubt if you have and if you had the courage,<br /><br />I am going through a bad homicide that occurred a couple days ago and can't quit seeing it over and over in my mind. If your comments show how you feel about law officer the I would be suspicious of your activities.<br /><br />this comment makes about as much sense as a cow trying to drive a VW.<br />
That baby should have known better than to be a shield for a mad man....
Perhaps the trauma of your experience has jaded your perception. Who got Killed? I certainly can understand how these experiences are hard on those around them. Imagine how the mother of that child feels. You may have the cart before the horse. Please share with us the circumstances of your trauma and how courages you have been.
 

willamettejeff

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Nov 15, 2004
Messages
550
Re: So tired of attacks against our Police!!

Edited: Deleted my comment. Momentarily forgot my policy of not responding to threads that a troll is making comments in.
 

deputydawg

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Aug 29, 2004
Messages
1,607
Re: So tired of attacks against our Police!!

I have tried to stay away from this topic, but can not. <br />I have to say that I have no opinion on what happened to that child, because I WAS NOT THERE. I can pull the armchair jury that everyone else does in these situations and say the cops should not have fired, but I was not there.<br />I could say that with their training they should be professional enough to hold fire, but I WAS NOT THERE.<br />Now in a perfect world in perfect circumstances they should have held fire until a sniper arrived and take him out with a precision shot AFTER all negotiations failed, but who knows.<br />How long did it take you to form your opinion of what happened? <br />How long did the cops have to form their decision?<br />The average gun battle cops face lasts 3 to 5 seconds. How can anyone even began to criticize the decisions made unless your forced to do so in 3 to 5 seconds? Especially if your life is not on the line?<br />I have been in law enforcement for over 10 years now. I did know when I applied that it was possible that I might get killed, but I did not ever sign up to volunteer to get killed. I will go down with a fight. I have 4 people at home that want me around a few more years. <br />Now to look at this scene, how many oficers were there? How many civilians? Was there enough time to evacuate the area and allow the madman to keep shooting? In 3 to 5 seconds they should have evacuated the entire area, called in SWAT, set up negotiations with the man and went to drink a cup of tea after. <br />Or maybe it was in a crowded area where hundreds of other people were in HIS line of fire and he needed to be stopped immediately. In 3 to 5 seconds weigh out the possibilities of every avenue and make a well planned decision that reaches a desired outcome. <br />That said, I would like to know everyones opinion. What is the leading cause of officers being shot on duty? Answer, it is the hesitation before firing. We know that our career is over if we fire back. We are under such a microscope and everyone will take weeks or months to criticize our actions and decision we made in that 3 to 5 seconds, while under extreme stress and fear, that our career will be over. AT the very least we will be sued for everything we own. But still we keep on going. We live in the worst 15 minutes of everyone elses lives and are often the worlds toilet paper, but we keep it up. I knew this when I started. <br />Now with the benefit of knowing so much, maybe these people can tell me what do I tell my daughter when she is old enough to be curious and asks "daddy have you ever shot anyone?" or "have you ever killed anyone?". Do i lie or do I say well child, that is what I signed up for. I wanted to paint a target on my back and allow everyone to dump on me. I would like to know because this is a question that will come sooner than I am ready for I think. <br />Last week near where I live there was a baby, less than a year old, killed by a "stray bullet" in a gang drug related drive by. That killing made 1 small article on the 3rd page of the paper. It said child killed by stray bullet. The killer was shooting at the driver and hit the child in the back seat. End of press coverage. This incident said "police slay baby". Then it said that the man was using the baby as a sheild and blah blah blah. It has made 3 or 4 days in the paper now. What was the difference in the 2 killings? <br />Although I have signed up for this, I will never stop being amazed at what another human being will do to another. I have seen murders, rapes, stabbings, shootings, child abuse, all of the above done on a child, whatever. BUT I am still at times shocked and amazed at what one person will do to another. I firmly believe that the man holding this baby is responsible. The officers were doing what they felt best at the time with what they had to work with at the time. I am sure if they had been given time to think about it they would have held fire. But there is not enough information. Did they not see the baby, did they think the baby already dead, was it a sniper miscalculating the move of the father. Was there hundreds of prople in the line of fire forcing them to decide between the lesser of two evils? These are questions that will be asked over the next few months until someone given enough time and information will be able to process and come to a perfect solution and then point fingers if needed. <br />To Bubbakat, stick with it. Don't be afraid to ask for help if you need it. The days of cops hiding their feelings is over. From experience, stick with it and work through it. In time the blood smell will leave you, the images will stop coming into your mind, and things will be better. It all takes time to heal, but you can't shut it off like we are supposed to. You will always have the memory and that is good. My problem I find that bothers me more than what I see is that I am not as bothered by what I see any more. remember as long as you still feel something your doing good and reacting like your supposed to. <br />To everyone else, I can hold no ill feelings to someone who can not or does not want to wear a badge. I made this choice. It was a sort of calling, something I just had to do. If it is not for you that is the way it is. But please remember to look at things from this side of the badge when your criticizing our actions. Put yourself out on the dark highway with a suspect when suddenly from nowhere bullets start flying. That 3 to 5 seconds feels like forever but you are also moving in slow motion. Then it is all over, nothing but the smell of gunpowder and blood and someones dead. <br />No matter what happened there I will include the suspect, the baby, and the officers involved in my prayers. They all need it.
 

kenimpzoom

Rear Admiral
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Jul 13, 2002
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4,807
Re: So tired of attacks against our Police!!

Everybody seems to forget cops are humans too and they make mistakes.<br /><br />Perhaps the cops could have backed off and guy would have surrendered. Maybe they tried too, I dont know.<br /><br />Either way, I really dont blame the cops, the blame lies with the idiot father.<br /><br />NOBODY can judge the police actions unless you have the full story.<br /><br />Right now in Houston an off duty cop was killed (all shots in the back BTW) by an on duty cop cause the off duty had a gun. We'll see.<br /><br />Ken
 

rennen

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Jun 25, 2005
Messages
81
Re: So tired of attacks against our Police!!

I am so sick and tired of hearing how bad the police treat the minorities....if they would stop committing crimes, the problem would go away
You serious? Ignorance is bliss I guess. God help the rest of us.
 
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Re: So tired of attacks against our Police!!

Originally posted by willamettejeff:<br /> Edited: Deleted my comment. Momentarily forgot my policy of not responding to threads that a troll is making comments in.
Good rule. To bad you didn't follow it. Now you have hurt waterones feelings. :confused:
 
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Re: So tired of attacks against our Police!!

Originally posted by willamettejeff:<br /> Wrong technostupeedo, guess again.
There you go breaking your own rules again. Edited} :delete: You otta be shot. ;) :) :) ]<br />Your right, I should never question a disparaging remarks about minorities. I am sure there was no impropiety in those remarks. I can't do anything about your mistakes but I can do something about mine. Circumstance makes heels and heroes. Your the hero. enjoy it.... :confused:
 

sue5878

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Mar 30, 2005
Messages
91
Re: So tired of attacks against our Police!!

DD/Bubbakat<br /><br />If we had a 20 year rule, I might have retired 7 years ago. I don't know enough about this one to comment, except to say it is difficult to understand unless you've been there. You know with so much time to think through the situation before acting.<br /><br />Strange we have people that live in glass houses here, that do an inquiry and ask witnesses to speak slowly, so that they can consider (over weeks or months) what should of happened. Then they adjourn to consider what actions were appropriate in the circumstances.<br /><br />Innocent victims - baby, police officers and there respective families who will now go thru hell are in my prayers.<br /><br />GR
 

fire831

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Aug 26, 2002
Messages
373
Re: So tired of attacks against our Police!!

Technostupeedo, the biggest reason I am no longer in law enforcement is because of hearing loss that developed over my 10 years. The other part is personal, you no the were humans also part. I am a volunteer firefighter now, I guess once emergency services gets in your blood you have a hard time getting it out. I also agree with deputydawg in what he says.You do start to wonder if something is wrong with yourself when you feel you are getting used to the things you see and put up with and are not bothered by it. To bubbakat, hang in there, as deputydawg says, don't be afraid to ask for help or to sit down and talk to someone about it.You can't keep it bottled up inside. I seen my fair share of death,injuries ect.in my times, but i'm sure not near what emergency responders in bigger cities have.
 
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Re: So tired of attacks against our Police!!

Thank you for responding. I too was a volunteer fireman and remember the creedo. You risk your life so that life and property may be saved. The greatest problem with the way this conversation started was one of reaction and half truths. I meant nothing disparaging in my question, but rather was seeking information to better understand your position. No one ever made a mistake on purpose. But the mistake is always paid for.
 
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